Is there any news regarding a Class 483 train being preserved?

[D365]

Thanks for the update. If you're able to share, what are the plans for 008?

 

[lttgroup]

Thanks for the update. If you're able to share, what are the plans for 008?

008 will be joining 006 to allow us to run a four car formation. Car 228 is penciled in to receive the Battery equipment whilst Car 128 is to be restored to 1940 cosmetic condition. Cars 126 and 226 will remain largely as they are, with 226 being cosmetically restored to NSE condition.
All cars are to Initially receive original LT Train Red livery.

 

[1938stock]

This is fantastic news and is a logical use for the four cars as they are found today in "as withdrawn" condition. It will probably be the first time in rail preservation that it will be possible to see a long-lived class in the various stages of their service lives.

 

[lttgroup]

This is fantastic news and is a logical use for the four cars as they are found today in "as withdrawn" condition. It will probably be the first time in rail preservation that it will be possible to see a long-lived class in the various stages of their service lives.

We feel that this is the best way of celebrating the entire history of the trains whilst remaining faithful to the ex-LT environment that it'll be running in. We couldn't really have done this with only two cars but four allows us to really tell the whole story.

 

[bramling]

008 will be joining 006 to allow us to run a four car formation. Car 228 is penciled in to receive the Battery equipment whilst Car 128 is to be restored to 1940 cosmetic condition. Cars 126 and 226 will remain largely as they are, with 226 being cosmetically restored to NSE condition.
All cars are to Initially receive original LT Train Red livery.

Excellent plan. This really does give the best of all worlds.

 

[lttgroup]

Excellent plan. This really does give the best of all worlds.

Thank you; With the two car unit we had intended a restoration to LT-Only condition, leave the 483 side to the IoWSR. But over recent months we have come to have a lot of nostalgia for them as 483s. Only one of our founding Committee ever travelled on them in LT service so our memories are of them on the Island. We realised that it would be wrong to ignore that heritage, of which it seems so many people have grown fond.

 

[bramling]

Thank you; With the two car unit we had intended a restoration to LT-Only condition, leave the 483 side to the IoWSR. But over recent months we have come to have a lot of nostalgia for them as 483s. Only one of our founding Committee ever travelled on them in LT service so our memories are of them on the Island. We realised that it would be wrong to ignore that heritage, of which it seems so many people have grown fond.

Definitely the right decision. Apart from the fact the 483 condition is quite attractive in itself (even the fluorescent lightning sits quite nicely and appears to blend in), the sheer length of time they’ve spent as 483s - literally a complete second full life - justifies recognition is given to this. Were it not for the Island Line these units would, after all, have likely been scrapped as far back as the 1980s, and quite simply wouldn’t be here now.

That said, I still wish they weren’t being replaced in the island! One never knows, the rumours about the D stock not fitting through the tunnel might just be true!

 

[lttgroup]

Definitely the right decision. Apart from the fact the 483 condition is quite attractive in itself (even the fluorescent lightning sits quite nicely and appears to blend in), the sheer length of time they’ve spent as 483s - literally a complete second full life - justifies recognition is given to this. Were it not for the Island Line these units would, after all, have likely been scrapped as far back as the 1980s.

Considering cars 10297 and 11297 (Today better known as 483006) were originally withdrawn in 1981, reinstated 1986 and withdrawn again in 1987 before transferring to BR it's an impressive story! Part of our initial thinking was that a pristine 483 is being preserved by the IoWSR. The unique opportunity we have with three cars in passenger service (plus 228 with the batteries) is to tell that story in a very engaging and quite immersive way.

 

[bramling]

Considering cars 10297 and 11297 (Today better known as 483006) were originally withdrawn in 1981, reinstated 1986 and withdrawn again in 1987 before transferring to BR it's an impressive story! Part of our initial thinking was that a pristine 483 is being preserved by the IoWSR. The unique opportunity we have with three cars in passenger service (plus 228 with the batteries) is to tell that story in a very engaging and quite immersive way.

I take it the plan is that they will be able to run as a 4-car? Another benefit of having two units is that a 2-car might not quite be enough passenger-carrying capacity, especially if space is lost to the batteries.

I’d imagine it could turn out to be quite a popular feature.

 

[lttgroup]

Indeed, on all counts. By having the use of four cars we are able to put the batteries in their own car, which simplifies installation, improves weight distribution and reduces the cost of the equipment. That means we can keep one unit entirely as it is (other than minor cosmetic changes such as adverts, paint and Moquette) which is beneficial from a heritage standpoint. It also means that we have three whole cars available for passenger space.

 

[Journeyman]

Indeed, on all counts. By having the use of four cars we are able to put the batteries in their own car, which simplifies installation, improves weight distribution and reduces the cost of the equipment. That means we can keep one unit entirely as it is (other than minor cosmetic changes such as adverts, paint and Moquette) which is beneficial from a heritage standpoint. It also means that we have three whole cars available for passenger space.

I'm really liking the way these plans are shaping up.

Just a couple of things...are the batteries going in a car with guards' controls? Might be best not to do that, unless there's a good technical reason to do so. Having two guards' positions available could be useful. Also, I assume that interior fittings from the battery carrying vehicle would then be available as spares for the other cars in the train?

Will the battery car require any external alterations - panelled up windows, additional ventilation grilles etc?

 

[lttgroup]

Car 228 does not currently have a guard's position, however, we were intending to possibly install one to create a separate van area for use when it may be preferable to have the guard away from passengers (Covid or even just if we wanted to try something novel in the future like some kind of dining). There are guards positions in cars 126 and 128 which will be retained.

Interior fittings from car 228 will be used primarily in relation to cars 126 and 226. Additionally we may look at removing some under-floor equipment from 228 to save weight (for batteries) and to provide additional spares.

We would intend the battery car to retain the same external appearance, though may put boards behind the glass to mask the battery equipment. Ventilation has yet to be considered fully.

 

[Journeyman]

Car 228 does not currently have a guard's position, however, we were intending to possibly install one to create a separate van area for use when it may be preferable to have the guard away from passengers (Covid or even just if we wanted to try something novel in the future like some kind of dining). There are guards positions in cars 126 and 128 which will be retained.

Interior fittings from car 228 will be used primarily in relation to cars 126 and 226. Additionally we may look at removing some under-floor equipment from 228 to save weight (for batteries) and to provide additional spares.

We would intend the battery car to retain the same external appearance, though may put boards behind the glass to mask the battery equipment. Ventilation has yet to be considered fully.

Sounds sensible stuff. Assuming the batteries aren't *too* heavy, you can probably de-motor that car - the original 4-car units of 1938 Stock had three motored vehicles and a trailer. That would still give adequate performance, reduce weight on that vehicle, and provide spares for the other vehicles.

 

[lttgroup]

Sounds sensible stuff. Assuming the batteries aren't *too* heavy, you can probably de-motor that car - the original 4-car units of 1938 Stock had three motored vehicles and a trailer. That would still give adequate performance, reduce weight on that vehicle, and provide spares for the other vehicles.

That's more-or-less what we're thinking; In effect turning DM 228 into a 'Battery Control Trailer'. It'd reduce the battery requirements too.

 

[adc82140]

Thank you; With the two car unit we had intended a restoration to LT-Only condition, leave the 483 side to the IoWSR. But over recent months we have come to have a lot of nostalgia for them as 483s. Only one of our founding Committee ever travelled on them in LT service so our memories are of them on the Island. We realised that it would be wrong to ignore that heritage, of which it seems so many people have grown fond.

Dinosaur livery. I dare you.

 

[pdeaves]

By having the use of four cars

Do you have any view yet on when they will become yours and when they will move to their new home?

 

[swt_passenger]

Is there an educational benefit in having the battery bank easily visible to the public, eg through the windows, (that’s if safety requirements allow of course).

In other words, demonstrate to your passengers the size of battery bank that is necessary to run your trains, so they can get an idea how it would scale up to a bigger or faster train with greater range.

 

[D365]

Dinosaur livery. I dare you.

+1

Is there an educational benefit in having the battery bank easily visible to the public, eg through the windows, (that’s if safety requirements allow of course).

In other words, demonstrate to your passengers the size of battery bank that is necessary to run your trains, so they can get an idea how it would scale up to a bigger or faster train with greater range.

That’s an intriguing idea and one that I am definitely behind. On a personal level, I’d love to learn about what’s being planned for the battery side of things - would be interesting to see the battery carriage become a STEM ”exhibit on wheels”.

 

[357]

I have to admit that I would rather see the train in one of the liveries carried by the trains on the Island.

The LTM have the LT era covered, but the whole story of taking a tube train and running it on a holiday destination is unique and I feel that it needs to be remembered that this is a 483, not a 1938 stock anymore.

I'd love to see a set in NSE, but I also join the dare for dinosaur livery!

 

[lttgroup]

Dinosaur livery. I dare you.

My standard response to anyone who says this; If you're happy to cover the whole cost of the project then we'll do it...

Do you have any view yet on when they will become yours and when they will move to their new home?

Not as of yet. We've been told "Probably March"; That's it.

Is there an educational benefit in having the battery bank easily visible to the public, eg through the windows, (that’s if safety requirements allow of course).

In other words, demonstrate to your passengers the size of battery bank that is necessary to run your trains, so they can get an idea how it would scale up to a bigger or faster train with greater range.

There could be value in that: Certainly worth taking into consideration.

+1

See above!

That’s an intriguing idea and one that I am definitely behind. On a personal level, I’d love to learn about what’s being planned for the battery side of things - would be interesting to see the battery carriage become a STEM ”exhibit on wheels”.

The batteries are being produced commercially by Clayton Equipment Ltd and will essentially provide a substitute for the traction current. In terms of appearance they'll take the form of a series of metal boxes inside car 228. That's pretty much all that we have on them at the moment as the detailed design process can't start until we have access to the units, the wiring diagrams, weight diagrams and drawings.

I have to admit that I would rather see the train in one of the liveries carried by the trains on the Island.

The IoWSR will be keeping theirs in Island condition, which seems eminently sensible.

The LTM have the LT era covered, but the whole story of taking a tube train and running it on a holiday destination is unique and I feel that it needs to be remembered that this is a 483, not a 1938 stock anymore.

Yes... The whole story is definitely what we want to tell, hence my earlier post regarding interiors. As we're preserving it in LT territory an LT livery on the outside makes sense, but we want to retain a unit in otherwise perfect Island Condition.

I'd love to see a set in NSE, but I also join the dare for dinosaur livery!

We're thinking of NSE for the 40th anniversary of the 483s. Regarding Dinosaur livery, see above...

 

[357]

I forgot to add in my last post, I think it would be a great idea to have a way of people to enter the battery coach at terminus stations to view the installation (guards area), perhaps with some information about how the system works.

 

[JKF]

Just a quick update on 483 preservation, for those who may have missed it - We (The London Transport Traction Group) will be taking on units 483006 and 483008 for future operation at the Epping Ongar Railway.

With 483007 heading for the Isle of Wight Steam Railway and 483002 already condemned for scrap, that leaves 483004 and 483009 unaccounted for. I gather that 483004 is in better structural condition than 483009 and one unit is supposed to be going for use as holiday accommodation so it seems likely that 483004 will be saved also.

I’m pleased to hear of the plan for use as holiday accommodation- ‘glamping’ in unusual vehicles/structures is quite fashionable, and it fits with the history of other vehicles on the island - when I started reading this thread I was thinking it would be nice to drop a load of redundant cars over at Gurnard just like they did with the old steam stock. Unlike the steam stock there may be corrosion issues to contend with, but not insurmountable. Good luck to whoever does this!

In terms of stock getting scrapped, how is this done? Is it taken off the island or broken up locally?

 

[Journeyman]

I’m pleased to hear of the plan for use as holiday accommodation- ‘glamping’ in unusual vehicles/structures is quite fashionable, and it fits with the history of other vehicles on the island - when I started reading this thread I was thinking it would be nice to drop a load of redundant cars over at Gurnard just like they did with the old steam stock. Unlike the steam stock there may be corrosion issues to contend with, but not insurmountable. Good luck to whoever does this!

In terms of stock getting scrapped, how is this done? Is it taken off the island or broken up locally?

Most of the previous generation of Standard stock was scrapped on the island, as were the early withdrawals of the 483s.

 

[bramling]

Most of the previous generation of Standard stock was scrapped on the island, as were the early withdrawals of the 483s.

ISTR all 483s scrapped to date have been done on site, or at least cut into smaller parts and then taken away for final disposal elsewhere on the island.

They might need to be moved or lifted over the running lines to the station car park though. Road access to the depot is minimal.

 

[Journeyman]

ISTR all 483s scrapped to date have been done on site, or at least cut into smaller parts and then taken away for final disposal elsewhere on the island.

They might need to be moved or lifted over the running lines to the station car park though. Road access to the depot is minimal.

Yeah, I think the 483s were all cut up at the depot. The previous tube stock was generally removed by road via the siding at Sandown before being cut up nearby. 5 cars were taken back to the mainland and ended up being put aside for the LT Museum's Standard Stock restoration project. Two trailers survive, currently at the depot in Acton.

 

[Chris125]

What do we know about the funding situation?

It would be useful to know ballpark figures for the amount already raised, and how much will be required - especially with a second unit now needing storage and restoration.

 

[lttgroup]

What do we know about the funding situation?

It would be useful to know ballpark figures for the amount already raised, and how much will be required - especially with a second unit now needing storage and restoration.

I'll ask our treasurer about the current figures, but we do not yet have an estimate for restoration costs as we only have a rough outline of what state each unit is in. At present the only big job we know for certain we'll have to do is re-wheeling 008. Turning the existing wheelsets is unlikely as I gather the reason for its early withdrawal was that some of the tyres were too thinly worn.

To be bluntly honest at this stage we need as much financial assistance as we can get. The transport costs have been covered now but at the end of the day we're still a small, and very new, preservation group without a large financial backer, although some of our members have contributed very substantial sums.

We're proud that we've managed to secure these two units for preservation, but even that decision wasn't an easy one to take - On balance it was decided that we would be best taking two as we would only regret not taking it later on and at any rate it gives the project a much greater scope.

 

[torten]

I'll ask our treasurer about the current figures, but we do not yet have an estimate for restoration costs as we only have a rough outline of what state each unit is in. At present the only big job we know for certain we'll have to do is re-wheeling 008. Turning the existing wheelsets is unlikely as I gather the reason for its early withdrawal was that some of the tyres were too thinly worn.

To be bluntly honest at this stage we need as much financial assistance as we can get. The transport costs have been covered now but at the end of the day we're still a small, and very new, preservation group without a large financial backer, although some of our members have contributed very substantial sums.

We're proud that we've managed to secure these two units for preservation, but even that decision wasn't an easy one to take - On balance it was decided that we would be best taking two as we would only regret not taking it later on and at any rate it gives the project a much greater scope.

Is there a possibility of salvaging wheelsets with life left in them off 483002, 483004, or 483009 if none of them are preserved?

 

[lttgroup]

Is there a possibility of salvaging wheelsets with life left in them off 483002, 483004, or 483009 if none of them are preserved?

The wheelsets on 002 and 009 are, I gather, the worst of the bunch. 004 would likely have the best of those on the withdrawn stock and there are overhauled wheelsets in stock so we should be alright.

 

[73128]

What do we know about the funding situation?

It would be useful to know ballpark figures for the amount already raised, and how much will be required - especially with a second unit now needing storage and restoration.

let alone the cost of transport to Epping