Issues North of Newcastle - Plessey Viaduct - 09/10 (onwards)

[SeanG]

Just watched that interview and it is rather refreshing to hear. No real PR speak and its broken down clearly so hopefully most will understand. I would like to think that the public would prefer this honesty and openness rather than 'hiding behind' PR speak

 

[GuyGibsonVC]

Just watched that interview and it is rather refreshing to hear. No real PR speak and its broken down clearly so hopefully most will understand. I would like to think that the public would prefer this honesty and openness rather than 'hiding behind' PR speak

He is the Route Director for East Coast and generally known for being a straight talker.

 

[HurdyGurdy]

Just watched that interview and it is rather refreshing to hear.

Yes. A straight forward description which will reassure the public that while there will be some delay to their journeys, and buses for some, most trains are running and it's safe to travel.

However, the 'Look North' commentary and the first part of the interview were still following the PR line that all that had happened was that during the course of planned engineering work it was discovered that some masonry had moved. No longer talking about a parapet, but are still straining every sinew to avoid using the words 'damage to the structure', which is what has actually occurred.

It should not cause alarm to be honest about why it's not possible to reinstate the track on the Up line. It may actually be more reassuring to the public if what they are being told aligns with what the photos or video shows them. That while one side of the viaduct is damaged and until it's repaired, trains in both directions can safely use the other side.

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Yes. A straight forward description which will reassure the public that while there will be some delay to their journeys, and buses for some, most trains are running and it's safe to travel.

However, the 'Look North' commentary and the first part of the interview were still following the PR line that all that had happened was that during the course of planned engineering work it was discovered that some masonry had moved. No longer talking about a parapet, but are still straining every sinew to avoid using the words 'damage to the structure', which is what has actually occurred.

It should not cause alarm to be honest about why it's not possible to reinstate the track on the Up line. It may actually be more reassuring to the public if what they are being told aligns with what the photos or video shows them. That while one side of the viaduct is damaged and until it's repaired, trains in both directions can safely use the other side.

We now know this part of the parapet wall had already been remediated due to overturning movement back in 2014 so its was maybe weaker than was expected and the activity of the track renewal has acted as a trigger to cause the failure. The BBC NW aerial shots certainly show the scale of the damage pretty clearly mind you the reporter does say only 1 of 4 tracks are available!

 

[greyman42]

Yeah, that would be slightly disturbing for those sitting on the left-hand side of the train.

In what way?

 

[swt_passenger]

…The BBC NW aerial shots certainly show the scale of the damage pretty clearly mind you the reporter does say only 1 of 4 tracks are available!

I think that’s repeating Network Rail’s own original error, although their news item has since been corrected.

 

[edwin_m]

There was an item on BBC Look North yesterday evening (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episo...-north-east-and-cumbria-evening-news-10102023 - about 6 minutes in) which gave a clear and concise explanation of what's happened and wht is going on. The NR spokesman was Paul Rutter, whom I take to be one of the senior engineers dealing with it all — certainly miles away from the sort of PR waffle the TOCs generally seem to offer.

This was a very useful update, Paul Rutter though obviously an engineer not a PR person but was spot on in explaining without oversimplifying. The video also gives a better view of what has happened than the photos earlier on this thread. It also suggested the track was removed before the problem was found, not as I thought that it was removed afterwards to reduce the loading on the structure.

still straining every sinew to avoid using the words 'damage to the structure', which is what has actually occurred.

If you take the viaduct as the structure then it is clearly damaged. But I think the point they were making was that the part damaged was non-structural, meaning not a part that helps to keep it from collapsing.

 

[greyman42]

This was a very useful update, Paul Rutter though obviously an engineer not a PR person but was spot on in explaining without oversimplifying.

The fact that he is not a PR person is the reason his explanation was spot on and not BS.

 

[edwin_m]

The fact that he is not a PR person is the reason his explanation was spot on and not BS.

Up to a point, I know plenty of engineers whose explanations would be total gobbldigook to a non-expert (saying this as an engineer myself). However I note from a post above that he's fairly senior and probably wouldn't have reached that level without good communication skills.

 

[greyman42]

Up to a point, I know plenty of engineers whose explanations would be total gobbldigook to a non-expert (saying this as an engineer myself). However I note from a post above that he's fairly senior and probably wouldn't have reached that level without good communication skills.

Yes i agree, but it was unlikely that they would of put out a junior person to speak to the media.

 

[najaB]

In what way?

I think any layperson would be disturbed to see what looks like a slow collapse in progress.

 

[Bald Rick]

He is the Route Director for East Coast and generally known for being a straight talker.

That’s putting it mildly

And whilst he is an engineer (and a bloody good bloke), his Civil Engineering qualifications are the same as mine…

 

[HurdyGurdy]

If you take the viaduct as the structure then it is clearly damaged. But I think the point they were making was that the part damaged was non-structural, meaning not a part that helps to keep it from collapsing.

I've already explained why I regard spandrel walls to be structural parts of a masonry bridge or viaduct and I choose my words carefully. Structural damage is damage to a structural part. Structural failure is a failure of part of a structure to support its design load. The fact that the complete viaduct isn't in danger of collapsing doesn't mean that what has occurred is non-structural. Because of the damage at Plessey, if an attempt was made to reinstate the Up line track and run a train over it, the load would not be supported.

Structural failure of spandrel walls in masonry arch structures is a risk which Network Rail are well aware of. As the consultants who produced the report for Network Rail linked in #137 say in their very first paragraph:

There have been several structural failures of spandrel walls over the last few years. Although there were
no direct consequences from each of these incidents, each one has been largely unpredictable and had the
potential to cause a serious accident.

 

[plugwash]

There was an item on BBC Look North yesterday evening (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episo...-north-east-and-cumbria-evening-news-10102023 - about 6 minutes in) which gave a clear and concise explanation of what's happened and wht is going on. The NR spokesman was Paul Rutter, whom I take to be one of the senior engineers dealing with it all — certainly miles away from the sort of PR waffle the TOCs generally seem to offer.

Unfortunately the bbc seem to have taken it down.

Does anyone know if the same information is available elsewhere?

 

[QueensCurve]

Unfortunately the bbc seem to have taken it down.

Does anyone know if the same information is available elsewhere?

Posted here:-

 

[Trestrol]

Unfortunately the bbc seem to have taken it down.

Does anyone know if the same information is available elsewhere?

BBC news programmes are only ever available for 24 hours on iPlayer. Something to do with not confusing the general public on what is current news.

 

[AndrewE]

There was an item on BBC Look North yesterday evening (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episo...-north-east-and-cumbria-evening-news-10102023 - about 6 minutes in) which gave a clear and concise explanation of what's happened and wht is going on. The NR spokesman was Paul Rutter, whom I take to be one of the senior engineers dealing with it all — certainly miles away from the sort of PR waffle the TOCs generally seem to offer.

sadly no longer available, even if you are signed in. a already spotted and helped out- thanks.

 

[greyman42]

I think any layperson would be disturbed to see what looks like a slow collapse in progress.

Ok. I have not been over the viaduct yet so have not seen it for myself. I imagined that you would not really see much difference from the carriage window?

 

[josh-j]

Ok. I have not been over the viaduct yet so have not seen it for myself. I imagined that you would not really see much difference from the carriage window?

There's a video kindly provided a few posts back (quoted below). Must say it probably would worry me slightly but clearly they have assessed it is safe!

My daughter has just crossed southbound and took a video, there's obviously lots of activity in the field leading up to it. Her quote is that "it is off putting"

 

[petersi]

A back cab view cab over the viaduct during these works

 

[Narrowgauge725]

This evening northbound over the viaduct not brilliant view not sure if anything was happening but there were some lights on

 

[D6130]

A back cab view cab over the viaduct during these works

Sounds like a pretty bad wheel flat or flats on that trailing bogie. Let's hope the vibration/hammer blow from that doesn't cause further damage to the viaduct!

 

[The Middle]

Amended timetables up for all operators apart from LNER now commencing 16th October

 

[30907]

Amended timetables up for all operators apart from LNER now commencing 16th October

...including one TPE each way late afternoon/evening.

 

[The Middle]

...including one TPE each way late afternoon/evening.

Literally just to rotate the units off/on Craigentinny

 

[800001]

Amended timetables up for all operators apart from LNER now commencing 16th October

LNER coming soon

 

[jayah]

Need to scaffold that side on bridge 4-5 days, prepare the structure and then rebuild 7-10 days, 2 days to reinstate the track add in 2-3 days to sort site access and some contingency and 3/11 becomes potentially feasible if its 24hr working.

It looks like a more difficult site than Nuneham, down a steep gorge surrounded by trees. Good roads are nearby, but you still need to build a long access road and cut down a lot of trees. Accessing the gorge with any sort of plant looks difficult, let alone climbing scaffolding all the way up, if that is going to the plan the plan.

Don't rule out issues with the masonry either, as it is Grade II listed, the powers that be won't be happy with slabs of concrete.

 

[DelW]

It looks like a more difficult site than Nuneham, down a steep gorge surrounded by trees. Good roads are nearby, but you still need to build a long access road and cut down a lot of trees. Accessing the gorge with any sort of plant looks difficult, let alone climbing scaffolding all the way up, if that is going to the plan the plan.

Don't rule out issues with the masonry either, as it is Grade II listed, the powers that be won't be happy with slabs of concrete.

The video attached to post #148, taken from a train, shows the length of the temporary access road, and what looks like a work compound being laid out close to one abutment.

 

[najaB]

Don't rule out issues with the masonry either, as it is Grade II listed, the powers that be won't be happy with slabs of concrete.

There's likely to be little objection to simply replacing the concrete slabs that had already been approved though.

 

[norbitonflyer]

A back cab view cab over the viaduct during these works

Looking at that, it looks to be fortunate that the collpase didn't take down any electrification masts - or did the masts help to keep the nearby masonry in place?