It seems that Worcestershire Parkway is a success...

[lachlan]

As there are no direct trains that I know of between Bristol and Worcester Parkway, I had to change in Worcester itself to head towards Oxford (this was when the bridge was closed). So unfortunately I haven’t used the new station even thoerotically it would have made sense to interchange there. On the plus side I had an excuse to go and explore in Worcester for a bit

 

[Pokelet]

As there are no direct trains that I know of between Bristol and Worcester Parkway, I had to change in Worcester itself to head towards Oxford (this was when the bridge was closed). So unfortunately I haven’t used the new station even thoerotically it would have made sense to interchange there. On the plus side I had an excuse to go and explore in Worcester for a bit

Correct, the GWR Bristol stoppers come off at Abbotswood and join the Cotswold line at Norton. No access to Worcester if they made it to Parkway.

Well the proposed 2nd train per hour from Cardiff to Birmingham which is suggested would go to Moor Street Is probably a extension of the tfw service.

Better get a few more class 231s

That's a heck of a lot of route to learn and a long journey, CNM - WOS approx 30 mins, WOS-BMO 1hr. Added to the current Cheltenham -Cardiff and you are looking at approx 2hr45 or so. Would they be looking at relief at Worcester with a WMT crew?

 

[Class172]

It’s great to see that the station appears to be a success, which would support my observations when using the station that it seems pretty well patronised.

Correct, the GWR Bristol stoppers come off at Abbotswood and join the Cotswold line at Norton. No access to Worcester if they made it to Parkway.

That's a heck of a lot of route to learn and a long journey, CNM - WOS approx 30 mins, WOS-BMO 1hr. Added to the current Cheltenham -Cardiff and you are looking at approx 2hr45 or so. Would they be looking at relief at Worcester with a WMT crew?

I suspect the second Cardiff-Brum service referred to is contingent on the Bordesley Chords being built, so it would be routed via the Camp Hill line.

 

[Essan]

I've used Parkway a few times now when travelling from Evesham to Scotland. It improves connection times, especially on the return journey (there were times in the past when I've had nearly an hour's wait in Brum for a train to Worcs, followed by another hour in Worcs, to get home to Evesham!).

My main issues are: the XC trains, especially to Brum, are invariably full - although fortunately the journey time isn't too bad for standing. And I'm always a little worried that if I miss the connection to Evesham (or it's delayed/cancelled) I may have a lengthy wait in the middle of nowhere. Whereas going via Worcs at least means I can go to the pub ....

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The South Worcestershire development plan calls for just that. At the moment WOP ( an ugly station code ) is seen as been of strategic importance with anything up to 5,000 new homes being built around it in the next 10 years or so and many more after that. In essence we are looking at a new town being centred on the station.

You can read the gory details here: https://www.swdevelopmentplan.org/component/fileman/file/Documents/SWDPR Reg 19 Docs/WP Evidence Base/081122_WP Spatial Framework Nov_updated.pdf?routed=1&container=fileman-files

Those plans do actually look pretty good: A new town heavily designed to allow easy walking and cycling and to discourage driving, built around Worcester Parkway station. Are these just plans that will be filed away in a cupboard, or is there any sign that they are actually going to be implemented.

One thing I didn't see in the document was any suggestion for what the town should be called. Not sure if it was there and I missed it. I rather hope we don't end up with a town called 'Worcester Parkway' On the other hand, if it does get given a proper name, I wonder if we might eventually see Worcester Parkway station being renamed to match?

 

[Bartsimho]

Those plans do actually look pretty good: A new town heavily designed to allow easy walking and cycling and to discourage driving, built around Worcester Parkway station. Are these just plans that will be filed away in a cupboard, or is there any sign that they are actually going to be implemented.

One thing I didn't see in the document was any suggestion for what the town should be called. Not sure if it was there and I missed it. I rather hope we don't end up with a town called 'Worcester Parkway' On the other hand, if it does get given a proper name, I wonder if we might eventually see Worcester Parkway station being renamed to match?

I'd expect the plans to be unearthed again upon the next GE. I'd also expect the station to be renamed to whatever the new town would be called (either Norton, Stoulton or Littleworth)

 

[D Williams]

That it was never the intention?
That it isn't happening in the near future?
That it is never happening?

Not on Wednesdays ever.

 

[PTR 444]

There are no services between Worcestershire Parkway and Bromsgrove, probably making it one of the few places on the network where 2 consecutive stations don't have any service between them.

Three in fact, as neither Bromsgrove, WOP or Ashchurch have any direct services between each other.

 

[HST274]

Three in fact, as neither Bromsgrove, WOP or Ashchurch have any direct services between each other.

WOP and ashchurch do I believe, a few times a day in peak times.

 

[lachlan]

Correct, the GWR Bristol stoppers come off at Abbotswood and join the Cotswold line at Norton. No access to Worcester if they made it to Parkway.

That's a heck of a lot of route to learn and a long journey, CNM - WOS approx 30 mins, WOS-BMO 1hr. Added to the current Cheltenham -Cardiff and you are looking at approx 2hr45 or so. Would they be looking at relief at Worcester with a WMT crew?

indeed but there are CrossCountry trains from Bristol that pass through without stopping.

A bunch of stops were pulled from CrossCountry during Coronavirus and not reinstated as far as I know so adding one back in shouldn’t impact timings too much

 

[The Planner]

indeed but there are CrossCountry trains from Bristol that pass through without stopping.

A bunch of stops were pulled from CrossCountry during Coronavirus and not reinstated as far as I know so adding one back in shouldn’t impact timings too much

Not on that route though.

 

[jimm]

The fact that it is running way above the business case (and I expect way above predictions on this forum !) should be causing a rethink, surely.

It would be interesting to know how much is new business, and how much has transferred from another station.

Pre-pandemic (and Parkway opening) about 2.8m passengers a year were using Foregate Street and Shrub Hil. That figure is down to about 1.8m now - that said, there is clearly less commuter traffic post-Covid on WMR services into Birmingham and the figures for the central Worcester stations are notoriously unreliable due to lack of barriers at either station and short journey times from nearby stations, so ticketless travel is a long-standing problem locally.

I will be interested to see whether the closure of the Cotswold line earlier this year will significantly affect the 2023-24 figures.

Closures plural, as there was the enforced closure of the Cotswold Line due to the bridge abutment failure, plus the Nuneham Viaduct closure, the strikes, you name it....bound to have an effect here, at Oxford and everywhere else on the Cotswold Line.

Sad but inevitable. Worcestershire Parkway is the antithesis of sustainability, environmentalism and integrated transport.

If people are accessing the railway from a dormitory suburb, driving down a dual carriageway and parking in a huge expanse of asphalt, you are doing everything concerning planning and transport wrong.

The projected (and inevitable) modal share to that place, IIRC, was of the order 98% private car and 1% taxi.

Before long 'success' will manifest itself as a link road upgrade and car park expansion, followed perhaps by another dormitory suburb being planted right around the site.

So you would rather people just got in their cars and drove all the way to their destination instead, or to Birmingham International, or Warwick Parkway? Because that is precisely what a lot of people in and around Worcester were doing previously - access to the stations in central Worcester isn't exactly peachy, with notorious congestion at busy times of the day, while Foregate Street may be near the bus station but has zero car parking or even a drop-off area. Shrub Hill is not that central to begin with, is nowhere near most bus routes and has a grand total of 93 parking spaces. There are already cycle paths laid in to Parkway from the nearest existing housing and through parts of the proposed development sites and, as noted elsewhere, lots of new housing is planned within walking distance - which sounds fairly sustainable to me. Where else do you suggest new homes for Worcester go? On parts of the River Severn flood plain? The city has quite enough areas that flood already.

Another case of XC greed. How is this allowed when XC do not serve Worcester?

The old Regional Railways Cardiff-Nottingham service, which eventually landed in XC's lap in the post-privatisation pass the parcel game, used to run via Worcester Shrub Hill - Central and Wales & West then wanted faster journey times to/from Birmingham and gradually withdrew the detours into Worcester. XC runs a handful of services through Shrub Hill non-stop to maintain route knowledge for diversions. Over the years, FGW/GWR made noises about taking control of the fares from the south into central Worcester but did not go through with it and presumably all such matters are now frozen until ministers decide what on earth Great British Railways is actually supposed to do.

I wonder which is the busier line - GWR east - west or XC north - south?

I have heard of USA citizens going from Moreton-in-Marsh to north Wales via a change at Worcester Parkway - so, it is not just locals using the station but long distance passengers traversing the country.

Cross Country are charging high fares because they don’t have long enough trains and this has gone in for years. Who on earth thinks that a 2 or 3 coach 170 is adequate to link south Wales with Birmingham, Derby and Nottingham? South Wales and Gloucester could really do with a fast Inter City service going to Birmingham > York and Newcastle. The 170’s could be then left on their present route mopping up the smaller places.

I wonder if the TfW services from south Wales could be extended from Cheltenham to serve Ashchurch, Worcester Shrub Hill, Droitwich and terminate at Kidderminster - or, failing that Shrub Hill?

Considering that until recently XC had nothing more to offer on this route most of the time than a 2-car 170, current provision is a whole lot better - all trains are booked for at least a three-car set and there are usually two 2+3 and one or two 2+2 formations operating each weekday to try to cover the busiest trains (including a 2+3 on the 07.45 from Cardiff - the 09.14 at Parkway). Yes, the trains are busy at the times you would expect, but it is perfectly possible to make a journey in a lightly-loaded train all the way between Cardiff and Worcestershire Parkway, which I have done several times in the past couple of years. That said, don't travel on a day when it is Wales v England in the Six Nations in Cardiff, unless it's while the match is in progress.

As there are no direct trains that I know of between Bristol and Worcester Parkway, I had to change in Worcester itself to head towards Oxford (this was when the bridge was closed). So unfortunately I haven’t used the new station even thoerotically it would have made sense to interchange there. On the plus side I had an excuse to go and explore in Worcester for a bit

It's much easier and faster to make a same platform change at Cheltenham Spa to and from the Cardiff-Nottinghams if you want to get between Bristol and the Cotswold Line - and this is the option offered by journey planners to stations as far down the line towards Oxford as Kingham.

I suspect the second Cardiff-Brum service referred to is contingent on the Bordesley Chords being built, so it would be routed via the Camp Hill line.

That is indeed the proposal.

Those plans do actually look pretty good: A new town heavily designed to allow easy walking and cycling and to discourage driving, built around Worcester Parkway station. Are these just plans that will be filed away in a cupboard, or is there any sign that they are actually going to be implemented.

One thing I didn't see in the document was any suggestion for what the town should be called. Not sure if it was there and I missed it. I rather hope we don't end up with a town called 'Worcester Parkway' On the other hand, if it does get given a proper name, I wonder if we might eventually see Worcester Parkway station being renamed to match?

The station is called Worcestershire Parkway - it is not going to change.

The county council has been quite clear from day one that it sees the station's role as being to connect the county by rail to destinations further afield than Birmingham, Cardiff and Nottingham. If XC ever gets trains with a sensible seating capacity for the other services that currently pass through non-stop, the council, MPs, etc will be lobbying for some of them to call.

 

[The exile]

It’s great to see that the station appears to be a success, which would support my observations when using the station that it seems pretty well patronised.


I suspect the second Cardiff-Brum service referred to is contingent on the Bordesley Chords being built, so it would be routed via the Camp Hill line.

Rather than a second Cardiff - Birmingham, a semi-fast Bristol - Birmingham would be useful - unlocking direct journey opportunities that currently do not exist. Not quite sure what the southern calls would be (other than thinking “Yate’s quite big”!) but would suggest WOP, then Bromsgrove &Kings Norton - could even be used to increase the service to the Camp Hill trio of stations.

 

[option]

Another case of XC greed. How is this allowed when XC do not serve Worcester?
I think a good idea would be to extend electrification 12 miles to Parkway from Bromsgrove and terminate cross city services there giving Parkway a 30 minute interval service to Birmingham for commuters and leisure. Cost would be about £24m for electrification and £3m for crossovers and siding at Parkway. Trains are already present. Just extended 10-12 minutes before turnround.
Is that within WCCs budget even if they contributed a proportion of it as XC would eventually be a user? Would that stop XCs shenanigans?

Can't extend the Cross-City without extra stock. If you extend an existing Bromsgrove service, then you reduce frequency on the rest of the Cross-City, & you block the line at WParkway whilst doing the turnaround. It's at least 8minutes each way, + a 4minute turnaround. So that would need an extra train. There's then the issue that any issues south of Bromsgrove impact the rest of the Cross-City.
You also can't add it as a new service, as there's no capacity at New St etc.

It's not an obvious end point. Bromsgrove is Birmingham commuters, & it's about the same distance out as Redditch, both ~15miles by rail, Lichfield City is ~17miles. It also uses stock that was sitting at Longbridge on a long turnaround.
Parkway is another 12miles past Bromsgrove, through nothing, & it's the middle of nowhere.
If the Cross-City ever extended further south, it's going to go into Worcester itself, as it would then also serve Droitwich & potentially a new station in north Worcester. That service might then extend to the upper level at Parkway.


TfWM/WMCA aren't going to touch it, as Worcestershire isn't a WMCA member.
It also doesn't help with removing diesel services from New St & Snow Hill.

 

[Pokelet]

indeed but there are CrossCountry trains from Bristol that pass through without stopping.

A bunch of stops were pulled from CrossCountry during Coronavirus and not reinstated as far as I know so adding one back in shouldn’t impact timings too much

True, these are all very late at night for diversion route retention. That's said though there used to be stop boards on the platforms at Shrub Hill for VT 220/221 4/5 car.

It’s great to see that the station appears to be a success, which would support my observations when using the station that it seems pretty well patronised.


I suspect the second Cardiff-Brum service referred to is contingent on the Bordesley Chords being built, so it would be routed via the Camp Hill line.

That does make more sense, but do TFW need additional route knowledge in to Birmingham, especially as it's Cardiff mainline that currently cover up to Cheltenham? Plus are the paths there Cheltenham to Kings Norton?

 

[bleeder4]

It's a good station, I use it regularly and there's always a crowd waiting for trains there. Parking is very reasonable as well. £3.80 all day at weekends, just over a fiver a day on weekdays. It's interesting going there on strike days when XC are still running, as you get the Plymouth-Edinburghs stopping there, as well as trains between Birmingham and Bristol.

 

[Kilopylae]

It's a very useful way to avoid Reading when travelling from Oxford.

 

[Fidelis]

True, these are all very late at night for diversion route retention. That's said though there used to be stop boards on the platforms at Shrub Hill for VT 220/221 4/5 car.


That does make more sense, but do TFW need additional route knowledge in to Birmingham, especially as it's Cardiff mainline that currently cover up to Cheltenham? Plus are the paths there Cheltenham to Kings Norton?

The Cardiff to Birmingham Trains via Gloucester and Worcestershire Parkway are operated by Cross Country not TfW, so no additional route knowledge as some XC use the Camphill Line to get to New Street on Saturdays to retain route knowledge .

 

[jayah]

This is very reassuring - a potential new town built around rail, a new station exceeding expectations even with a pandemic, and local politicians acting to improve the service. Hopefully this is replicated elsewhere!

It is a bankrupt planning policy, yet in vogue. This station is sold as saving car miles but only does so on the trunk road network east of Worcester for a relatively small number of people.

Jacobs modelling for the development plan showed building 10,000 Parkway homes simply generates 3,000 new daily return car trips to the centre of Worcester. Dormitory suburbs always do that.

Ironically the biggest issues with the two existing stations - too much congestion, not enough parking.

Cities live and die by urban transport and Worcester isn't a large one. Far too much investment is being soaked up by eye catching schemes that actually make this worse.

They could have started by building a station at Henwick where people already live.

 

[Techniquest]

Henwick would definitely have a good useage, so many houses around that area. I think the level crossing barriers may be down for too long at a time though if a station was there.

 

[Class 170101]

Henwick would definitely have a good useage, so many houses around that area. I think the level crossing barriers may be down for too long at a time though if a station was there.

close the crossing which seems to be NRs preferred national policy anyway.

 

[zwk500]

close the crossing which seems to be NRs preferred national policy anyway.

Certainly is the preferred policy. Of course it needs a viable alternative, so you'd probably need to do some work to Comer road to take the diverting traffic. Not impossible, of course, but expensive and with the way that projects are accounted for, it'd be the station reopening project who had to pay (discussion of who *should* pay is probably best for speculative threads).

 

[Fidelis]

Henwick would definitely have a good usage, so many houses around that area. I think the level crossing barriers may be down for too long at a time though if a station was there.

This year there was a study at Worcester University on opening a station at the former Henwick Halt less than mile from Foregate Street.
This showed that: -
The original site was now unavailable and it was difficult, due to considerable development in the area around the line, to find a suitable site .
The Lower Wick and Dines Green areas had significant housing development outwards from Henwick Road precluding walking to the proposed station.
Survey of residents found they thought it a good idea, but preferred to use the bus services to the City Centre.
Most demand would be by students at the beginning and end of the University Term. They already have frequent buses.
Business case was difficult as the fare box for this very short journey wouldn't meet the costs of stopping and starting the Class 800s on the route some of which are nine cars. Let alone cover the costs of creating a station.
Replacing the level crossing on Henwick Road with a bridge would be expensive and intrude on listed buildings.
The Henwick Road which the line crosses via the level crossing, is the major north- south route from the villages to the City and is already heavily used.
At the presentation and review it was thought that this was a "Nice to have" but probably unachievable.

 

[gg1]

It is a bankrupt planning policy, yet in vogue. This station is sold as saving car miles but only does so on the trunk road network east of Worcester for a relatively small number of people.

Jacobs modelling for the development plan showed building 10,000 Parkway homes simply generates 3,000 new daily return car trips to the centre of Worcester. Dormitory suburbs always do that.

Ironically the biggest issues with the two existing stations - too much congestion, not enough parking.

Cities live and die by urban transport and Worcester isn't a large one. Far too much investment is being soaked up by eye catching schemes that actually make this worse.

They could have started by building a station at Henwick where people already live.

Given the central location of Foregate Street, surely a considerable proportion of journeys from a dormitory town centred on Worcestershire Parkway to Worcester itself would be via train, aided by such a town being planned from the outset with a high standard of cycling provision.

 

[edwin_m]

Given the central location of Foregate Street, surely a considerable proportion of journeys from a dormitory town centred on Worcestershire Parkway to Worcester itself would be via train, aided by such a town being planned from the outset with a high standard of cycling provision.

The service frequency is rather low for such a short journey. That's less of an issue if the catchment is walking and cycling to the station than driving, because they are less likely to miss their train due to traffic delays. But a more frequent bus service might attract more passengers even if it was slower.

 

[gg1]

The service frequency is rather low for such a short journey. That's less of an issue if the catchment is walking and cycling to the station than driving, because they are less likely to miss their train due to traffic delays. But a more frequent bus service might attract more passengers even if it was slower.

It is at present but that could change easily change if a major settlement was built centred on the station, improved rail provision could and should be an integral part of such a development.

 

[edwin_m]

It is at present but that could change easily change if a major settlement was built centred on the station, improved rail provision could and should be an integral part of such a development.

Not sure where the capacity or the funding would come from. And I'm not sure what existing service could be extended - if it was from Birmingham it wouldn't serve Foregate Street.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Three in fact, as neither Bromsgrove, WOP or Ashchurch have any direct services between each other.

It's a bit of a silly situation really.

I wouldn't mind seeing some Cross City services extend from Shrub Hill to WOP and maybe on to Evesham.

 

[gg1]

Not sure where the capacity or the funding would come from. And I'm not sure what existing service could be extended - if it was from Birmingham it wouldn't serve Foregate Street.

Of the Snow Hill services which currently terminate at Foregate Street, roughly half call at Shrub Hill first then reverse with the remainder calling at Foregate Street only. Could this be rejigged so they all call Foregate Street>reverse>Shrub Hill>Parkway?

As for funding, assuming a new town of 10,000 homes built around an existing station, an improved rail service should be considered essential infrastructure in the same way schools, roads, cycling provision, GPs, buses and utilities are and funded accordingly. I admit I don't know who's responsible for funding essential infrastructure in major developments under the current rules, but the principle is rail should be accounted for in the costs of the development.

 

[PsychoMouse]

Foregate Street>reverse>Shrub Hill>Parkway?

I really don't think that all trains need to stop at both WOF and WOS. No reason why alternate trains can just serve 1 with the WOS ones extending to WOP.