It seems that Worcestershire Parkway is a success...

[edwin_m]

I think the problem here is that you have two hourly services - one running roughly N-S and one running roughly E-W, where passengers may reasonably want to connect in any of the four combinations (N-E, N-W, S-E, S-W). It's plainly impossible to construct a timetable in which all of those connections in both directions are reasonably timed (unless all four trains heading in the four different directions turn up at the same time every hour and then spend 5 minutes waiting for each other). If we want all interchanges to have decent connections, then the only likely way to achieve that is to make all the services more frequent (which sadly we don't have the infrastructure to do)

But which of these connecting directions is most important?

N-E is between Birmingham/beyond and Cotswold line stations, but not as far as Oxford which has quicker direct trains from Birmingham
N-W is between Birmingham/beyond and Worcester/beyond, for which there are other direct trains available
S-E is between Cheltenham-Cardiff and Cotswold line stations, but including Oxford in this case.
S-W is between Cheltenham-Cardiff and Worcester/beyond, for which there are other services available by changing at Gloucester.

So I suggest the most likely connections are S-E then N-E, and ideally the timetable should have the northbound and southbound trains stopping simultaneously with an eastbound about 10min later and a westbound about 10min earlier. There are doubtless may reasons why this won't happen.

 

[GWVillager]

It's plainly impossible to construct a timetable in which all of those connections in both directions are reasonably timed (unless all four trains heading in the four different directions turn up at the same time every hour and then spend 5 minutes waiting for each other).

This is, of course, physically impossible without a rebuilding of the station as the Cotswold Line has only 1 platform.

 

[BrianW]

But which of these connecting directions is most important?

N-E is between Birmingham/beyond and Cotswold line stations, but not as far as Oxford which has quicker direct trains from Birmingham
N-W is between Birmingham/beyond and Worcester/beyond, for which there are other direct trains available
S-E is between Cheltenham-Cardiff and Cotswold line stations, but including Oxford in this case.
S-W is between Cheltenham-Cardiff and Worcester/beyond, for which there are other services available by changing at Gloucester.

So I suggest the most likely connections are S-E then N-E, and ideally the timetable should have the northbound and southbound trains stopping simultaneously with an eastbound about 10min later and a westbound about 10min earlier. There are doubtless may reasons why this won't happen.

I contributed to this thread back on 21 Sept, #74, asking similarly. (I know it 's tiresome to look back). When looked at in the round it mist be nigh on impossible to timetable, let alone maintain, connections in all directions everywhere- in this case also with paths and turnrounds at Hereford, Oxford, Padd, New Street and Bristol, etc etc. Best that can be hoped is a good connection in the most beneficial direction, e.g S-E, as long as this works with the other probably greater priorities!

 

[LickeyIncliner]

The Worcestershire County Council employed an independent Market Research company to carry out surveys on Wednesdays and Saturdays. This is being repeated, but to date the results show that Ian's figure is low as currently it is over 60% new to rail. So these are additional to those who in the past may have driven to Warwick Parkway or Birmingham International to catch a train .

The direct early morning services were withdrawn by GWR from Hereford as the on train data showed there were only 8 passengers on the 04.49 and 12 on the 06.43. The letter in Modern Railways about these few passengers driving to Parkway is interesting as the AA route planner says that it is 31.5 miles and will take 56 minutes.

Thanks for the additional info! Does the survey work indicate (and are you able to say) whether the new-to-rail proportions are the same for the XC and GWR lines?

 

[jimm]

But which of these connecting directions is most important?

N-E is between Birmingham/beyond and Cotswold line stations, but not as far as Oxford which has quicker direct trains from Birmingham
N-W is between Birmingham/beyond and Worcester/beyond, for which there are other direct trains available
S-E is between Cheltenham-Cardiff and Cotswold line stations, but including Oxford in this case.
S-W is between Cheltenham-Cardiff and Worcester/beyond, for which there are other services available by changing at Gloucester.

So I suggest the most likely connections are S-E then N-E, and ideally the timetable should have the northbound and southbound trains stopping simultaneously with an eastbound about 10min later and a westbound about 10min earlier. There are doubtless may reasons why this won't happen.

As things stand, the connections between the Cotswold Line stations to the east* of Worcestershire Parkway and trains to and from Cheltenham, Gloucester and Cardiff are most important by a distance, both for travel to/from places on the route or making further connections to/from Bristol and the South West at Cheltenham - there seem to be people making this change at all times of the day, throughout the week. Which is probably why the timetables are structured to make those connections the best.

*but realistically only about as far as Kingham, or Charlbury at a pinch, not Hanborough or Oxford, which are quicker via Didcot to Bristol/South Wales,

Of course, if more XC services called at Worcestershire Parkway across the board, then it would be possible to get North-East connecting times to/from Birmingham down to match those in the Cardiff direction, also for people from Malvern and Worcester travelling to/from the South West. But that will need bigger XC trains, all the Birmingham area capacity enhancements and someone ordering XC to add the extra calls.

It might also help if there were fares to/from Birmingham for stations east of Honeybourne - though if you want to go beyond New Street, then there are fares to Derby, etc, with a change at Worcestershire Parkway. I assume the fares from Vale of Evesham stations to Birmingham are set by WMR , not XC, which presumably sets the fares northwards, and no one noticed the absence of Birmingham fares from Moreton-in-Marsh or Kingham. Who needs a joined-up railway?

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Charlbury and Kingham have both "any permitted" and "via Worcester" fares to Birmingham. Both, however, are set by XC. The SVR is no saving at all, but the SOR is about half the price via Worcester. Curiously these pre-date the opening of Worcestershire Parkway and have been set by XC for as long as I can remember, even though you'd never have taken a CrossCountry train if making the journey before Parkway opened.

Whether "via Worcester" actually includes Worcestershire Parkway, I couldn't tell you. In any case, a little judicious splitting and careful fare selection gets the price down handily...

 

[GWVillager]

Charlbury and Kingham have both "any permitted" and "via Worcester" fares to Birmingham. Both, however, are set by XC. The SVR is no saving at all, but the SOR is about half the price via Worcester. Curiously these pre-date the opening of Worcestershire Parkway and have been set by XC for as long as I can remember, even though you'd never have taken a CrossCountry train if making the journey before Parkway opened.

Whether "via Worcester" actually includes Worcestershire Parkway, I couldn't tell you. In any case, a little judicious splitting and careful fare selection gets the price down handily...

XC set a lot of fares you wouldn’t expect them to - I believe the Marches Line too. It’s a shame as they’re particularly sinister with their pricing.

I would assume that “via Worcester” doesn’t include Parkway, “Worcester (all stations)” tickets aren’t valid to it and are charged separately.

 

[peteb]

Now Chiltern has withdrawn from Kidderminster and has only a skeleton Stourbridge service, I know several people in that area who are now driving to Worcestershire Parkway for GWR to London. Great for GWR but not so good for our carbon footprint!

 

[class ep-09]

Now Chiltern has withdrawn from Kidderminster and has only a skeleton Stourbridge service, I know several people in that area who are now driving to Worcestershire Parkway for GWR to London. Great for GWR but not so good for our carbon footprint!

Could , in theory GWR run some services to / from Kidderminster ?
I thought there are few sets stabled st Shrub Hill for morning starters , what if one of them started at Kidderminster instead ?

 

[Class172]

Could , in theory GWR run some services to / from Kidderminster ?
I thought there are few sets stabled st Shrub Hill for morning starters , what if one of them started at Kidderminster instead ?

Some IETs are stabled overnight in the Hereford sidings to the side of Shrub Hill if I remember rightly.

I believe there is an aspiration for some GWR services to reach as far as Kidderminster. I can't recall which document I've seen it in but it forms part of a plan to have a more frequent service along the Cotswold line, with 2tph to Worcester and some services extended to Kidderminster.

 

[HST274]

On pricing, the separation of 'Worcester stations' from Parkway does add other complications- for example Foregate/Shrub Hill - Kings Norton for example can be (technically) made via Parkway and University, but is actually cheaper than the ticket for Worcestershire Parkway- Kings Norton, so some savings can be made there is someone wants to be sneaky.

 

[Class172]

but is actually cheaper than the ticket for Worcestershire Parkway- Kings Norton, so some savings can be made there is someone wants to be sneaky.

It won't be so sneaky if a pricing manager reads this and manages to get a negative easement or other restriction applied to said tickets.

 

[Kingham West]

XC set a lot of fares you wouldn’t expect them to - I believe the Marches Line too. It’s a shame as they’re particularly sinister with their pricing.

I would assume that “via Worcester” doesn’t include Parkway, “Worcester (all stations)” tickets aren’t valid to it and are charged separately.

There is an issue of CDR tickets from Kingham onwards to Cheltenham , cross country set them or rather don’t , the only way is to split tickets into 2 CDR tickets , all a bit pathetic , and not encouraging leisure use.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

Some IETs are stabled overnight in the Hereford sidings to the side of Shrub Hill if I remember rightly.

I believe there is an aspiration for some GWR services to reach as far as Kidderminster. I can't recall which document I've seen it in but it forms part of a plan to have a more frequent service along the Cotswold line, with 2tph to Worcester and some services extended to Kidderminster.

Yes, it’s part of the North Cotswold Line Taskforce’s proposal as mentioned upthread. It’s a nonsense because it will be 40 minutes quicker to change onto HS2 at Moor St/Curzon St than to get their proposed direct service from Kidderminster.

 

[Starmill]

I was told that the removal of XC stops at Bromsgrove was done mainly to stop split-ticketing for journeys like Cheltenham - Birmingham, forcing you to pay the XC fare. XC also sets the fare from Ashchurch to Worcester although they don't run that way (sorry getting off the subject).

It was also that all of the trains which called at Bromsgrove needed to begin calling at Worcestershire Parkway and this would make it too tight. I have a feeling they introduced an extra two stops at Aschurch too although my memory may be failing there.

 

[class ep-09]

Yes, it’s part of the North Cotswold Line Taskforce’s proposal as mentioned upthread. It’s a nonsense because it will be 40 minutes quicker to change onto HS2 at Moor St/Curzon St than to get their proposed direct service from Kidderminster.

Except if someone does not like changing trains / stations but like taking seat and forgetting about all of the fuss .

I am one of this kind of people .

Plus if price was attractive , who knows.

There are still people , who may be travelling to Oxford or Reading from Kiddy or Droitwich - I agree probably not that many but considering that already there are sets stabled at Shrub Hill , why not to start one of them from Kiddy ?

There is GWR depot at Shrub Hill so they could sign that route - and learning that would be the only cost that need to be paid for ( plus bit more fuel ) .

Similarly in the afternoon - run one of the peak trains to Kiddy instead of Foregate Street or Great Malvern and back to London ( or leave the set in Kiddy to start in the morning ? ).

I wonder what were numbers of passengers Chiltern had and whether there could be a business case for one , two pairs a day in both directions.

Perhaps one pair - morning to London , afternoon to Kiddy ( but not very late ) could be justified.

 

[jimm]

Charlbury and Kingham have both "any permitted" and "via Worcester" fares to Birmingham. Both, however, are set by XC. The SVR is no saving at all, but the SOR is about half the price via Worcester. Curiously these pre-date the opening of Worcestershire Parkway and have been set by XC for as long as I can remember, even though you'd never have taken a CrossCountry train if making the journey before Parkway opened.

But you would have taken a Central Trains or Wales & West service back in the day when they shared operation of the Birmingham-Cardiff axis and set the fares. XC inherited the fare-setting role when the Nottingham-Cardiff service transferred to it from Central in 2007, at which time there were still a few trains calling at Shrub Hill. XC is also in charge of fares for Worcester Stations south to Gloucestershire and Bristol, rather then GWR, which operates the service.

 

[Unixman]

Just been announced that a project to build 10,000 new town around Parkway has moved a step forwards. Initially 5,000 in the next 15 or so years with the remainder later. This is the Worcester News report:

New details revealed about plans for new 10,000-home town near Worcester

A number of landowners and developers have joined forces to ask for thoughts on the plan.

www.worcesternews.co.uk

The huge new town would be built next to Worcestershire Parkway station – around three miles from Worcester.

The homes would be built in the next 30 years with the first 5,000 homes expected to be finished by 2041.

A group of landowners and housing developers have joined forces and launched a month-long public consultation...

 

[Farigiraf]

Just been announced that a project to build 10,000 new town around Parkway has moved a step forwards. Initially 5,000 in the next 15 or so years with the remainder later. This is the Worcester News report:

New details revealed about plans for new 10,000-home town near Worcester

A number of landowners and developers have joined forces to ask for thoughts on the plan.

www.worcesternews.co.uk

Ads are blocking some of the content but it seems very ambitious. Smells like Meridian Water.

I was told that the removal of XC stops at Bromsgrove was done mainly to stop split-ticketing for journeys like Cheltenham - Birmingham, forcing you to pay the XC fare. XC also sets the fare from Ashchurch to Worcester although they don't run that way (sorry getting off the subject).

Cheeky...

 

[Pinza-C55]

I have to say that I am pleased that it is being patronised to an extent that wasn't anticipated for a few years. Maybe its success might convince X-Country to stop its really long distance trains there.

This is from Worcestershire County Council who had a celebration at the station yesterday.

Worcestershire Parkway passenger numbers exceed all expectations | Worcestershire County Council

More than 540,000 journeys have been made from Worcestershire Parkway Railway Station in the space of 12 months – exceeding all expectations.

www.worcestershire.gov.uk

It's pretty much standard to see reopened stations exceeding projected figures. Some people have downplayed the possible reopening of Ferryhill Station on the ECML but it would serve a huge area which currently has no station.

 

[BrianW]

I have to say that I am pleased that it is being patronised to an extent that wasn't anticipated for a few years. Maybe its success might convince X-Country to stop its really long distance trains there.

This is from Worcestershire County Council who had a celebration at the station yesterday.

Worcestershire Parkway passenger numbers exceed all expectations | Worcestershire County Council

More than 540,000 journeys have been made from Worcestershire Parkway Railway Station in the space of 12 months – exceeding all expectations.

www.worcestershire.gov.uk

I note the lack of reference in the 'blurb' to journeys between the Parkway station and Shrub Hill or Foregate Street- are they inconsequential? I note also the figure only relates to journeys TO Parkway Station, and neither FROM nor VIA. Also observing that (artificially?) low estimates are 'easier' to exceed (tho' harder to get approval for?)

 

[bleeder4]

Worcestershire County Council have posted the following on Facebook:

"Latte, tea or hot chocolate?
Passengers using Worcestershire Parkway Railway Station can now grab a hot drink or snack before they get on a train.
Worcestershire-based Nomad Coffee Company are operating at the front of Parkway Monday to Friday from around 7am to 12pm.
They sell hot and cold drinks, cakes, porridge and snack bars."

I don't know how to do the preview thing, but here's the link to their Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/YourWorcestershire

 

[david1212]

IMO back to when Worcestershire Parkway was approved for construction the timetable planners should have worked to schedule every XC service to call. Given generally fares set by XC are expensive driving e.g. to Cheltenham for a fare set by GWR may well have reduced the potential number of passengers though.

This is, of course, physically impossible without a rebuilding of the station as the Cotswold Line has only 1 platform.

Not making at least passive provision for two tracks and either a second platform or a platform long enough for two short IETs to cross and call was a major shortcoming.

 

[BrianW]

IMO back to when Worcestershire Parkway was approved for construction the timetable planners should have worked to schedule every XC service to call. Given generally fares set by XC are expensive driving e.g. to Cheltenham for a fare set by GWR may well have reduced the potential number of passengers though.



Not making at least passive provision for two tracks and either a second platform or a platform long enough for two short IETs to cross and call was a major shortcoming.

It got built. Compare HS2. The great is the enemy of the good.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Not making at least passive provision for two tracks and either a second platform or a platform long enough for two short IETs to cross and call was a major shortcoming.

Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought they did make passive provision for possible addition of a 2nd track in the future?

 

[The Planner]

IMO back to when Worcestershire Parkway was approved for construction the timetable planners should have worked to schedule every XC service to call. Given generally fares set by XC are expensive driving e.g. to Cheltenham for a fare set by GWR may well have reduced the potential number of passengers though.



Not making at least passive provision for two tracks and either a second platform or a platform long enough for two short IETs to cross and call was a major shortcoming.

If XC had no intention of calling, you cannot alter their schedules to put 3-4 minutes in just in case. It doesn't work like that. There is room for a second track and platform.

 

[Class172]

Maybe I'm mistaken but I thought they did make passive provision for possible addition of a 2nd track in the future?

Yep, the station building is designed also to allow a future platform 4 expansion.

 

[Bartsimho]

Yes, it’s part of the North Cotswold Line Taskforce’s proposal as mentioned upthread. It’s a nonsense because it will be 40 minutes quicker to change onto HS2 at Moor St/Curzon St than to get their proposed direct service from Kidderminster.

The whole Southern West Coast MainLine plan is bunkum then as it details potential services to Shrewsbury and North Wales as it would be quicker to head to Birmingham and then take a connection from there.

 

[GWVillager]

Yep, the station building is designed also to allow a future platform 4 expansion.

The station building? Why would that be any different whether there were 3 or 4 platforms?

 

[edwin_m]

Here's an aerial view that confirms the station does not obstruct the formation of the second track (note that the one track goes over the northern side of the bridge over the Midland line, and the platform is to the north of that).

That bridge has an empty span to the east of the railway, so I imagine a walkway could be run through this and up a ramp to a new platform on any future second Cotswold Line track. Or there may be a more elaborate idea to build a passage out of the building that punches through the embankment.

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