Italy - UK railway comparisons

[dmncf]

Here's a few comparisons from recent rail journeys in the north of Italy; in the Milan area and Milan to Venice:
- I saw much more freight train traffic than in the UK
- I saw many more infrastructure maintenance depots than in the UK - it seemed like all but the smallest stations have a yard housing infrastructure maintenance trains, regardless of whether this yard is occupying valuable city centre land!
- My Milan to Venice train travelled on some sections that were low speed and some sections that were high speed, and I saw new high speed sections under construction
- My train got delayed, just like trains in the UK - this isn't Japan!
- Frequencies and fares seem similar to the UK

Overall, I felt that Italian train travellers seem to be getting more bang for their buck; Italy has things that we would have cut, or been unable to afford in the UK. Happy to hear others' views on this.

 

[Iskra]

Here's a few comparisons from recent rail journeys in the north of Italy; in the Milan area and Milan to Venice:
- I saw much more freight train traffic than in the UK
- I saw many more infrastructure maintenance depots than in the UK - it seemed like all but the smallest stations have a yard housing infrastructure maintenance trains, regardless of whether this yard is occupying valuable city centre land!
- My Milan to Venice train travelled on some sections that were low speed and some sections that were high speed, and I saw new high speed sections under construction
- My train got delayed, just like trains in the UK - this isn't Japan!
- Frequencies and fares seem similar to the UK

Overall, I felt that Italian train travellers seem to be getting more bang for their buck; Italy has things that we would have cut, or been unable to afford in the UK. Happy to hear others' views on this.

I’d say it’s routinely significantly cheaper and better value travelling by train in Italy. Standard class is also superior in Italy due to more generous space allowed by the loading gauge.

The UK generally has better service frequencies throughout the country rather than just on key lines and generally does on-board service/catering better. The UK also does walk-up travel better.

 

[W-on-Sea]

The railways are a lot better in the North of Italy than in the South. So kind of like the reverse image of England...

To be honest, in regular visits to numerous regions of Italy over more than 20 years, I have few complaints about the (main TrenItalia network) railways - they are, generally speaking, a great way to travel around the country.

Ticketing has become a bit more complex and less flexible than it used to be, or really needs to be (so another parallel with Britain). And the comfort of the seating on some of the newer trains is rather questionable (ditto, albeit not quite in the same way).

The main stations in major cities are generally well-maintained and have a better range of facilities, at more reasonable prices, than their British counterparts tend to. Those in smaller settlements are also largely decent and well-maintained, and probably mostly superior to equivalents in the UK for the most part. Suburban stations, though...hmmm...unkempt and covered in graffiti, in common with other parts of Europe, is a way rightly not considered acceptable in Britain. I've not been on the Rome Metro recently, but the graffifi problem it had was pretty extreme.

Travel information is pretty decent. Better than here. Probably.

Service frequencies on the major lines (again, emphasising the point, in the northern half of the country) are generally decent. A few links missing here and there, though, or with low frequencies, especially if you want to get from one coast to the other.

The lack of coordination (or through ticketing) with the private or local railways that exist alongside Trenitalia can be annoying (I don't mean so much the rival high-speed offerings of Italo as the local networks or lines that exist in certain locations, like the FSE in Puglia, the Circumvesuviana from Naples, the FAL to Matera, the FUC from Udine, and so on. Bari station - which is shared by Trenitalia, the FSE and and the Ferrotramviaria, with an FAL station adjacent, could really do with some coordinated signposting, as the smaller railways' parts are a bit hidden away)

 

[yorkie]

Ticketing is more integrated in the National Rail network and fares are more flexible, in terms of train type/operator etc. However the fares are typically cheaper in Italy; what we need are the best parts of the National Rail fares system (e.g. tickets routed Any Permitted which don't have ludicrous restrictions barring the use of IC services) and the best parts of the Italian fares system (i.e. fares are more reasonably priced).

Trains are also more likely to wait for connections in Italy; this annoys some people in the UK who see statistics as more important, but for the average person, maintaining connections is more important, so again Italy wins there.

The UK wins on reservations as in Italy you have invisible reservations, which are an absolute disgrace, as well as trains having compulsory reservations, which is also highly undesirable. Nowhere in the UK has compulsory reservations except on Sleepers (LNER and others setting this in the data doesn't count as they're just basically lying)

Italy can be even worse than the UK in terms of announcements; they are typically made by an awful text-to-speech program which sounds disjointed and constantly repeats the sort of nonsense we get on National Rail, but it can be even more frequent and grating. Neither country does well in this area. That said, LNER's awful threats made before departure from King's Cross regarding ticketing are more hostile and unwelcoming than anything I've heard on Trenitalia.

Comfort is a very mixed bag; neither network clearly there, but the proliferation of ironing board style seating in the UK doesn't do us any favours.

Overall I'd say neither country really wins outright and both are utterly outdone by countries such as the Czech Republic (where I am right now) and Switzerland.

 

[D6130]

The railways are a lot better in the North of Italy than in the South. So kind of like the reverse image of England...

As someone who lives in Italy for half of the year, I would generally agree with the above statement.

Italian railways - both state-run and private - receive much bigger subsidies than their UK counterparts....from the EU for major infrastructure projects such as new high speed lines and from central, regional and local government. The notable exception to that rule is the 'Italo' open access high speed service, which runs on a fully-commercial basis similar to Grand Central and Lumo in the UK. That having been said, quite a lot of funding is wasted due to overbearing bureaucracy, poor project management and blatant corruption....and the further South you go the worse it becomes.

A lot of the slow, winding branch lines in the South of Italy - especially in Sicily and Sardinia - are hopelessly unviable and are only kept open for political reasons. Their creaking, rattling, smoky 40plus year-old diesel railcars are mainly patronised by schoolchildren and elderly ladies - often accompanied by small livestock - travelling from/to market. The 'parallel' bus routes are usually half the distance, take half the time, but are slightly more expensive.

IMHO, the catering on the Frecciarossa high-speed services is superior to anything on UK inter-city services - especially in first or business class - with the exception of TfW premier dining and GWR Pullman dining.

Suburban and Metro trains are frequent and usually fairly reliable and compare well with the UK, although there is a huge graffiti problem. The exceptions are the Rome Metro and Met.Ro suburban services, which are slow, filthy, overcrowded, lacking in air conditioning and suffer frequent breakdowns - usually at the hottest time of the year - to trains, signalling and overheads.

I'll try and think of a few more comparisons tomorrow. Time for bed now. Buonanotte!

 

[railfan99]

A lot of the slow, winding branch lines in the South of Italy - especially in Sicily and Sardinia - are hopelessly unviable and are only kept open for political reasons. Their creaking, rattling, smoky 40plus year-old diesel railcars are mainly patronised by schoolchildren and elderly ladies - often accompanied by small livestock - travelling from/to market.

I was recently in Sicily and Sardinia.

On both, with the exception of one trip to Caligari, the railcars were quite modern and airconditioned.

IMHO, the catering on the Frecciarossa high-speed services is superior to anything on UK inter-city services - especially in first or business class - with the exception of TfW premier dining and GWR Pullman dining.

Last year I was in first class on one of those (though not entitled to meals). The buffet/dining car had an extremely poor range of available items to take away.

In contrast, I have enjoyed great food such as lovely yoghurt with accompaniments for breakfast on board Avanti WC.

 

[yorkie]

One or two experiences don't really count for much and aren't necessarily representative.

 

[railfan99]

One or two experiences don't really count for much and aren't necessarily representative.

But they are random, and hence worthy of reporting.

 

[D6130]

I was recently in Sicily and Sardinia.

On both, with the exception of one trip to Caligari, the railcars were quite modern and airconditioned.

On your next visit to Sicily you should try the branch lines from Siracusa to Modica, Ragusa and Gela - or Catania to Caltagirone - for the real vintage railcar experience....although, by then, the 1980s-vintage ALn668s may have been replaced by something more modern.

Last year I was in first class on one of those (though not entitled to meals). The buffet/dining car had an extremely poor range of available items to take away.

I was referring to the sit-down meals, which can be served at your seat in first class if you are prepared to pay for them. Although microwaved, they are of considerably better quality and range than the - admittedly free - offerings on LNER. I have often found that several items on the Avanti West Coast first class menu are unavailable on the day.

But they are random, and hence worthy of reporting.

Agreed.

 

[Iskra]

The railways are a lot better in the North of Italy than in the South. So kind of like the reverse image of England...

As someone who lives in Italy for half of the year, I would generally agree with the above statement.

Is this the case? Or is it more based on route importance? The Italian West and East Coast mainlines both seem to have decent frequencies at the South ends too. Clearly, it's not as good as the core high speed network North of Salerno, but it seems good enough considering the population thins out South of there. The Ionian Coast line, (which I am a regular on) has a decent service between Reggio Calabria and Sibari where the line has a reasonable population and demand, but then East of Sibari to Taranto the service is sparse. Equally, on Sicily, the three main cities have good quality rail links along the coast, but away from the population centres the service gets a lot thinner. I am sure there will be examples of sparse service on secondary lines in the North too?

I was recently in Sicily and Sardinia.

On both, with the exception of one trip to Caligari, the railcars were quite modern and airconditioned.

I travelled on a pair of 40-year old railcars, on a backwater Sicilian route that I think has only 2 trains per day that cover the full line, this summer. Although I did quite enjoy that experience to be honest. This was Syracuse to Pozzallo for the ferry to Malta.

On your next visit to Sicily you should try the branch lines from Siracusa to Modica, Ragusa and Gela - or Catania to Caltagirone - for the real vintage railcar experience....although, by then, the 1980s-vintage ALn668s may have been replaced by something more modern.

I was referring to the sit-down meals, which can be served at your seat in first class if you are prepared to pay for them. Although microwaved, they are of considerably better quality and range than the - admittedly free - offerings on LNER. I have often found that several items on the Avanti West Coast first class menu are unavailable on the day.

Agreed.

I've found the provision of meals on Frecciarossa Executive class to be a bit patchy. The one that I had was pretty good and included in the fare, but other services seem to offer nothing in the same class of travel. Are meals at only certain times of day or is it distanced-based? It would also be decent if IC and ICN trains had something more than a token catering offering too considering how far some of these travel.

 

[D6130]

I've found the provision of meals on Frecciarossa Executive class to be a bit patchy. The one that I had was pretty good and included in the fare, but other services seem to offer nothing in the same class of travel. Are meals at only certain times of day or is it distanced-based?

Yes....as you will be aware, mealtimes in Italy are pretty rigid. Breakfast - forget it and knock back a coffee in the bar. Lunch - 13 00 on the dot....or as near as possible. Dinner - 20 00....or 21 00 in Summer. In theory, meals may be available at other times, but I suspect that the restaurant cars frequently run out of suitable dishes after the main meal times.

It would also be decent if IC and ICN trains had something more than a token catering offering too considering how far some of these travel.

Fully agree....although I suspect that most Italian families travelling long distances have become so used to bringing a hearty picnic with them that any enhanced catering would not be viable, especially given the need to pay the catering staff night rate.

 

[Chrysalis]

I spent a couple of months in Milan last year and in my opinion, the trains are delayed far more than British trains. There was a strike (or two?) during this time period but the trains were unreliable even outside the strike. It was cheaper than in the UK, however. Another observation was that I felt less safe late at night at train stations in Milan compared to here in the UK (southern UK to be precise).

Also, not trains so not that relevant at all, but I found the trams of Milan absolutely charming, some with wooden interiors and chandeliers.

 

[30907]

On your next visit to Sicily you should try the branch lines from Siracusa to Modica, Ragusa and Gela - or Catania to Caltagirone - for the real vintage railcar experience....although, by then, the 1980s-vintage ALn668s may have been replaced by something more modern.

Quite so

I was referring to the sit-down meals, which can be served at your seat in first class if you are prepared to pay for them. Although microwaved, they are of considerably better quality and range than the - admittedly free - offerings on LNER.

Are these different from the ones in the buffet? Are they only offered on some FR and not others?
My experience on the midday FR from Villa SG to Rome in early April was - no at seat offer (other than the standard welcome snack), one hot dish in buffet (lasagne on plastic tray). I had expected better.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One or two experiences don't really count for much and aren't necessarily representative.

They do seem to result in things like "wow, French trains are amazing" from someone who's used a TGV once and hasn't had to concern themselves with random patterns and buses on branch lines which in the UK would be hourly.

As for Italy, one thing I'm very disappointed about is that the Trenitalia partnership in Avanti didn't result in an attempt at First Class being a really premium thing like the 1+1 leather seating on the Frecciarossa. Now that would have been worth paying the silly Avanti First Class fares for once in a while - imagine coach K with about 15 seats in it?

 

[LeeLivery]

I find it quite good, normal trains are very affordable, comfy enough and busy. My experience with the toilets is they're either pretty clean or appalling. HSR is pricey, but it's a great system.

The delays can be serious, but despite being an 30-50 mins late, fast running doesn't seem to be much of a thing, if at all. I presume it's due to the lower frequencies on regional routes. Though most recently, we were surprised to always be on time.

In Naples, the M2 service ends far too early.

Finally, the Circumvesuviana, what an experience...

 

[Iskra]

They do seem to result in things like "wow, French trains are amazing" from someone who's used a TGV once and hasn't had to concern themselves with random patterns and buses on branch lines which in the UK would be hourly.

As for Italy, one thing I'm very disappointed about is that the Trenitalia partnership in Avanti didn't result in an attempt at First Class being a really premium thing like the 1+1 leather seating on the Frecciarossa. Now that would have been worth paying the silly Avanti First Class fares for once in a while - imagine coach K with about 15 seats in it?

The Executive class is stunning, and almost comparable with airline first class when you get the food. But, it is a waste of physical space and not exactly essential- does a train really need a mobile board-room? I suspect the recent trend from our political masters for discussing how many additional seats have been provided between X and Y cities, precludes such ultra-low occupancy configurations from ever appearing on anything other than possibly the sleeper trains over here.

I spent a couple of months in Milan last year and in my opinion, the trains are delayed far more than British trains. There was a strike (or two?) during this time period but the trains were unreliable even outside the strike. It was cheaper than in the UK, however. Another observation was that I felt less safe late at night at train stations in Milan compared to here in the UK (southern UK to be precise).

Also, not trains so not that relevant at all, but I found the trams of Milan absolutely charming, some with wooden interiors and chandeliers.

On punctuality, I do find that most IC trains I travel on tend to be 10 minutes late, almost as standard. It also isn't unusual to see the train-ferry trains delayed by hundreds of minutes. It is possible that my punctuality experiences aren't representative as my most common route is a very long single-track line with passing loops for both IC and Regional services, which means one late train anywhere delays every other train.

On security- I find the Italian railways to be very well-policed and I often see the railway police asking me or other passengers for their ID's on stations, even coming down IC trains in the South checking everyone's ID. I do agree that the more 'forgotten' urban stations can feel a bit more ropey at night, but I'm yet to actually see anything bad happen.

I find it quite good, normal trains are very affordable, comfy enough and busy. My experience with the toilets is they're either pretty clean or appalling. HSR is pricey, but it's a great system.

The delays can be serious, but despite being an 30-50 mins late, fast running doesn't seem to be much of a thing, if at all. I presume it's due to the lower frequencies on regional routes. Though most recently, we were surprised to always be on time.

In Naples, the M2 service ends far too early.

Finally, the Circumvesuviana, what an experience...

My experience of that was pretty grim- plastic seats on busy, hot trains for reasonable distances are never going to be great. However, I understand they have some newer trains now so it might not be as bad. It was certainly my worst ever rail experience when I rode it at the time.

 

[LeeLivery]

My experience of that was pretty grim- plastic seats on busy, hot trains for reasonable distances are never going to be great. However, I understand they have some newer trains now so it might not be as bad. It was certainly my worst ever rail experience when I rode it at the time.

I was on the oldest sets this summer. Genuinely the worst train I've ever experienced. But on a plus point, it's not a journey I'll ever forget

Stadler has won a contract for a new fleet, so it'll be much better soon enough. It really does need better info systems too.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Executive class is stunning, and almost comparable with airline first class when you get the food. But, it is a waste of physical space and not exactly essential- does a train really need a mobile board-room? I suspect the recent trend from our political masters for discussing how many additional seats have been provided between X and Y cities, precludes such ultra-low occupancy configurations from ever appearing on anything other than possibly the sleeper trains over here.

Coach K is but half a vehicle on Pendolinos to be fair. I think they'd sell those 15ish seats easily enough at a fairly hefty price. Though the Forum's Seatfrog junkies may not approve

A boardroom I'd agree not.

Does Italy have family coaches like the Swiss do? That works well.

 

[Chrysalis]

On punctuality, I do find that most IC trains I travel on tend to be 10 minutes late, almost as standard. It also isn't unusual to see the train-ferry trains delayed by hundreds of minutes. It is possible that my punctuality experiences aren't representative as my most common route is a very long single-track line with passing loops for both IC and Regional services, which means one late train anywhere delays every other train.

On security- I find the Italian railways to be very well-policed and I often see the railway police asking me or other passengers for their ID's on stations, even coming down IC trains in the South checking everyone's ID. I do agree that the more 'forgotten' urban stations can feel a bit more ropey at night, but I'm yet to actually see anything bad happen.

Agree with what you said about punctuality. I was also told by my Italian colleagues that they have rail strikes a lot more than here in the UK. I'm not so sure if that's true, but the strikes certainly seemed a lot more disruptive in Italy than here.

Regarding the security I never noticed guards asking for ID. On some of the bigger stations I'd see guards/conductors asking you to show your ticket but that was it. The station closest to where I lived the first of the two months, Certosa, was absolutely shady. Never saw any staff on the platforms or in the tunnels underneath the station, but every single day you'd smell cannabis walking there. On the other side of the spectrum, the station closest to where I lived the second of the two months, Lissone Muggio, seemed a lot safer. Probably because it's not actually in Milan but rather a small, quiet town just outside.

Another thing I noticed is that they have double decker trains! Something I've never noticed here.

 

[simonw]

On your next visit to Sicily you should try the branch lines from Siracusa to Modica, Ragusa and Gela - or Catania to Caltagirone - for the real vintage railcar experience....although, by then, the 1980s-vintage ALn668s may have been replaced by something more modern.

I was referring to the sit-down meals, which can be served at your seat in first class if you are prepared to pay for them. Although microwaved, they are of considerably better quality and range than the - admittedly free - offerings on LNER. I have often found that several items on the Avanti West Coast first class menu are unavailable on the day.

Agreed.

actually this summer the line from Siracusa to Gela was operated by a mixture of old style rail cars and very modern stock. However, the service is ibfrequent, despite most of the stations being equipped with passing loops and electronic signals. We travelled on it several times.

 

[D6130]

Regarding the security I never noticed guards asking for ID. On some of the bigger stations I'd see guards/conductors asking you to show your ticket but that was it.

If you read @Iskra 's post carefully, you will see that it is the railway police (Polizia Ferroviaria) who randomly check passengers' IDs on trains and not the train guards (Capi Treno). The only time the latter will ask for ID is when checking tickets and coming across a passenger with a privilege ticket, FIP free coupon, Eurail pass or Inter Rail pass....and even then, rather infrequently.

Are these different from the ones in the buffet? Are they only offered on some FR and not others?
My experience on the midday FR from Villa SG to Rome in early April was - no at seat offer (other than the standard welcome snack), one hot dish in buffet (lasagne on plastic tray). I had expected better.

I suspect that the bigger range of meals may only be available on the 'Golden Triangle' Frecciarossa routes between Milano/Bologna/Venezia/Roma/Napoli - which have a very high business ridership - and also the international service between Milano and Paris, which is currently suspended due to the landslide near Modane.

The biggest catering disappointment for me - and many other regular travellers - is the total lack of catering facilities on the long distance loco-hauled (or propelled) Inter City services, which otherwise have very comfortable seats in both first and second class. Twenty years ago you could enjoy lunch or dinner in the restaurant car while gliding along the Riviera Coast either side of Genova....or winding through the Appennines between Roma and Ancona.

 

[nwales58]

Fares on Trenitalia+TTPER regional and RE services: 3 day pass for Eur 30, 5 days for Eur 50, no time restrictions, valid nationally (but beware Lombardy and Alto Adige locals are not Trenitalia). Britain has nothing remotely near that value. Paid for by subsidy of course.

The Caravaggio ETR x21 sets are impressive crowd shifters, 750 seats in a 6 car unit. 2x5 car sets on an peak service, 1200 seats, is approaching 1 hour of Transpennine Express services in a single train. Their air conditioning copes at 38 degrees outside with a full load of passengers too.

 

[nw1]

Finally, the Circumvesuviana, what an experience...

What's your experience?

I used it in 1985 on a school trip (yes, I know...) on the Sorrento line and found it pretty good. Frequent and quite decent length trains, they had EMUs which (IIRC) ran in 3, 6 or 9-car formations. New-ish at the time, I think, I'd guess they'd have dated from the late 70s - they seemed a little newer than the CIGs and VEPs back home, but older than 455s or 508s. Seemed to be run on a 20-minute headway with often random gaps, so you might have departures such as 0811, 0831, 0911, 0951, 1031, 1051, 1131, 1211 etc.

My first experience of a frequent commuter railway outside of the UK, and only my second experience of a railway outside the UK full stop.

The Circumvesuviana services at the time were divided into:

Direttissimo - fast, particularly approaching Naples (perhaps about 3 trains in 10)
Diretto - most stations, smaller ones skipped (perhaps about 6 trains in 10)
Accelerato - all stations stoppers. While I'm by no means an expert in Italian, I found that name rather amusing! (A small minority)

There wasn't an obvious pattern though - the Direttissimo trains wouldn't necessarily depart at the same time each hour, for instance. I distinctly remember from my local station that the 0831 was a Direttissimo formed of two units, and the 0911 a Diretto formed of three.

 

[30907]

Accelerato - all stations stoppers. While I'm by no means an expert in Italian, I found that name rather amusing! (A small minority)

IIRC, at some stage (pre-WW2?) there was a programme of speeding-up local trains from their previous lethargic pace, hence the name (even though non-accelerati no longer existed).

 

[nw1]

IIRC, at some stage (pre-WW2?) there was a programme of speeding-up local trains from their previous lethargic pace, hence the name (even though non-accelerati no longer existed.

Ah right, thanks for that explanation! Spent the now unspeakable number of years between 1985 and now wondering about that!

 

[topydre]

I also travelled on several Trenitalia services recently (Aberystwyth - Cagliari and back via Marseilles).

The sheer size of the yards and stations was quite a surprise. Maybe a result of lower land values compared to the UK providing less of an incentive to sell off railway land?

The main line between Cagliari and Sassari on Sardinia is very well built, with mostly concrete sleepers and well maintained ballast. Seemingly minor stations often had several platforms, or 2 platforms and 2 through lines, and invariably a massive yard. Trains on this stretch were all modern and air conditioned.
Porto Torres to Sassari was an ALN668 one way (what a treat for a railfan) and a modern train the other way.

On the mainland, I was very impressed with the train between Genova and Savona. There were modern display screens which gave very detailed information on changing trains (i.e. what platform your connection will leave from) in Italian and English. My connection at Savona was tight on paper but there was cross-platform interchange (as at the other stations where changes were available). I suppose this is easier to arrange at stations with many more platforms than are really needed.

The trains between Ventimiglia and Genoa/Turin seem to be mostly loco-hauled old intercity stock - very comfortable though.

 

[LeeLivery]

What's your experience?

I used it in 1985 on a school trip (yes, I know...) on the Sorrento line and found it pretty good. Frequent and quite decent length trains, they had EMUs which (IIRC) ran in 3, 6 or 9-car formations. New-ish at the time, I think, I'd guess they'd have dated from the late 70s - they seemed a little newer than the CIGs and VEPs back home, but older than 455s or 508s. Seemed to be run on a 20-minute headway with often random gaps, so you might have departures such as 0811, 0831, 0911, 0951, 1031, 1051, 1131, 1211 etc.

My first experience of a frequent commuter railway outside of the UK, and only my second experience of a railway outside the UK full stop.

The Circumvesuviana services at the time were divided into:

Direttissimo - fast, particularly approaching Naples (perhaps about 3 trains in 10)
Diretto - most stations, smaller ones skipped (perhaps about 6 trains in 10)
Accelerato - all stations stoppers. While I'm by no means an expert in Italian, I found that name rather amusing! (A small minority)

There wasn't an obvious pattern though - the Direttissimo trains wouldn't necessarily depart at the same time each hour, for instance. I distinctly remember from my local station that the 0831 was a Direttissimo formed of two units, and the 0911 a Diretto formed of three.

It's not something I'd want to have as a local train. I had no idea what it was like before using it, I assumed it was just a normal suburban network on narrow gauge.

Naples and the South clearly are not well off, so I didn't expect Milan quality, but it's not good for 2023. Saying that, the local stops clearly make it a very useful service for people.

I was going to Pompeii. At Centrale/Garibaldi, you get told to head to platform 1. I'm pretty sure the train didn't turn up when it should have; screens were blank, and annoyingly I had no phone signal to check on platform level. People were asking each other for info, which most people, being tourists, had no idea.

The platform was crowded; if I had realised, I would've gone to Porta Nolana, which is only a few mins walk away (serves me right for not checking properly before hand). The train comes, and you instantly know this will be an interesting trip... It's a quick scramble for seats and the seats are rock hard; the train has clearly seen better days, with lively suspension, fun track quality and it's obviously hot.

At Pompei Scavi Villa Dei Misteri, the ticket machines were not working and there was a very long line for tickets coming back. We asked for a combined day ticket, but we were given a 1hr 30 mins ticket instead and didn't realise until we got on the M2 at Centrale and the guard checked his watch. We had planned to use the ticket again that day, so it could've got us in trouble if we didn't check (also, I flipping hate ticket stamping).

We had to wait I think almost 30 mins at Pompei, but there are only 1 or 2 benches for the platform. Which for a busy station after walking around the site in 30C wasn't great.

The timetable is still quite random. However, the Sorrento service being fast was a big plus, but if I had to take it to other places, I don't think I would've had a clue how to.

All in all, it gets you there and the fares are very cheap, but everything about it has seen better days

 

[Iskra]

It's not something I'd want to have as a local train. I had no idea what it was like before using it, I assumed it was just a normal suburban network on narrow gauge.

Naples and the South clearly are not well off, so I didn't expect Milan quality, but it's not good for 2023. Saying that, the local stops clearly make it a very useful service for people.

I was going to Pompeii. At Centrale/Garibaldi, you get told to head to platform 1. I'm pretty sure the train didn't turn up when it should have; screens were blank, and annoyingly I had no phone signal to check on platform level. People were asking each other for info, which most people, being tourists, had no idea.

The platform was crowded; if I had realised, I would've gone to Porta Nolana, which is only a few mins walk away (serves me right for not checking properly before hand). The train comes, and you instantly know this will be an interesting trip... It's a quick scramble for seats and the seats are rock hard; the train has clearly seen better days, with lively suspension, fun track quality and it's obviously hot.

At Pompei Scavi Villa Dei Misteri, the ticket machines were not working and there was a very long line for tickets coming back. We asked for a combined day ticket, but we were given a 1hr 30 mins ticket instead and didn't realise until we got on the M2 at Centrale and the guard checked his watch. We had planned to use the ticket again that day, so it could've got us in trouble if we didn't check (also, I flipping hate ticket stamping).

We had to wait I think almost 30 mins at Pompei, but there are only 1 or 2 benches for the platform. Which for a busy station after walking around the site in 30C wasn't great.

The timetable is still quite random. However, the Sorrento service being fast was a big plus, but if I had to take it to other places, I don't think I would've had a clue how to.

All in all, it gets you there and the fares are very cheap, but everything about it has seen better days

Ah, you didn't have the joy of a travelling band then? They got on the extremely crowded train; played one song, went down the carriage asking for money and then promptly got off at the first station, presumably to try their luck on another train!

On the way back, I emerged from the archaelogical site from a rear entrance and found a bar, and got talking to a local for a couple of hours. He directed me to Pompeii station rather than Scavi, which must have been an express as it skipped many stops, was quieter and generally much nicer experience, avoiding the tourist crush.

 

[LeeLivery]

Ah, you didn't have the joy of a travelling band then? They got on the extremely crowded train; played one song, went down the carriage asking for money and then promptly got off at the first station, presumably to try their luck on another train!

On the way back, I emerged from the archaelogical site from a rear entrance and found a bar, and got talking to a local for a couple of hours. He directed me to Pompeii station rather than Scavi, which must have been an express as it skipped many stops, was quieter and generally much nicer experience, avoiding the tourist crush.

I forgot about that! We had the same, but I was busy looking out the window!

I thought about using the other station, but honestly, after walking around in the heat for hours, it just felt like a lot of effort. Fortunately, it wasn't as crowded as the out journey and I did my usual thing of going to the front carriage to get a quieter ride.

 

[nw1]

It's not something I'd want to have as a local train. I had no idea what it was like before using it, I assumed it was just a normal suburban network on narrow gauge.

Naples and the South clearly are not well off, so I didn't expect Milan quality, but it's not good for 2023. Saying that, the local stops clearly make it a very useful service for people.

I was going to Pompeii. At Centrale/Garibaldi, you get told to head to platform 1. I'm pretty sure the train didn't turn up when it should have; screens were blank, and annoyingly I had no phone signal to check on platform level. People were asking each other for info, which most people, being tourists, had no idea.

The platform was crowded; if I had realised, I would've gone to Porta Nolana, which is only a few mins walk away (serves me right for not checking properly before hand). The train comes, and you instantly know this will be an interesting trip... It's a quick scramble for seats and the seats are rock hard; the train has clearly seen better days, with lively suspension, fun track quality and it's obviously hot.

At Pompei Scavi Villa Dei Misteri, the ticket machines were not working and there was a very long line for tickets coming back. We asked for a combined day ticket, but we were given a 1hr 30 mins ticket instead and didn't realise until we got on the M2 at Centrale and the guard checked his watch. We had planned to use the ticket again that day, so it could've got us in trouble if we didn't check (also, I flipping hate ticket stamping).

We had to wait I think almost 30 mins at Pompei, but there are only 1 or 2 benches for the platform. Which for a busy station after walking around the site in 30C wasn't great.

The timetable is still quite random. However, the Sorrento service being fast was a big plus, but if I had to take it to other places, I don't think I would've had a clue how to.

All in all, it gets you there and the fares are very cheap, but everything about it has seen better days

Thanks for that.

The hard seats rings a bell now you mentioned it, but at the time I didn't think anything of it. The trains were reliable and not overcrowded.

We too went to Pompei Scavi (amongst other places) but, being a school trip, the teachers dealt with the tickets. Possible we got some sort of group week ticket as we used it about three or four times during the week, to visit Pompeii, Herculaneum (Ercolano) and Naples.

It was spring so heat wasn't a problem, conditions varied between around 22C and sunny, and around 12C and rain!