Journey with the most amount of changes

[superkopite]

Out of interest, what are examples of journeys that cannot be sensibly made without say at least 5 changes. I can think of many examples that require 4 changes, but wonder if there are any that require 5, 6 or even 7 changes

 

[Mcr Warrior]

This question comes up surprisingly frequently. I'll go with Cardiff Bay to Barton-on-Humber with 4 changes (Cardiff Queen Street, Cardiff Central, Stockport, Habrough). Fairly sure other forum regulars will be able to suggest alternative, more convoluted, itineraries.

 

[The exile]

Not the maximum, but very high considering the short distance involved; Pilning to Cardiff Bay requires 3. Even Bristol Parkway to Pilning on a “normal” ticket requires 2 (Filton AW and Severn Tunnel Junction).

 

[Essan]

If I chose not to walk across from Glasgow Central to Queen St, then most of the time I'd need 5 changes for my journey to Lochailort:

Evesham - Worcs/Parkway
Worcs/Parkway - Birmingham
Birmingham - Preston
Preston - Glasgow Central
Glasgow Central - Dalmuir
Dalmuir -Lochailort

(There are a few direct trains from BHM to GLA but these aren't as frequent as they used to be and rarely work out for connections on the WHL)

 

[infobleep]

Nutfield to Oban is 5 changes.
Nutfield to Redhill
Redhill to London St Pancras International
London St Pancras International to London Kings Cross (walking)
London Kings Cross to Edingburgh
Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street
Glasgow Queen Street to Oban

The journey time is from around 10 hours to 20 hours according to the National Rail Enquiries app.

In the reverse direction though, it is possible to do it with just 4 trains as you can alight at Stevenage and get a train from there to Redhill.

 

[Peterthegreat]

I suspect quite a few places to MML destinations south of Bedford. Eg
Ilkley to Flitwick (not via London) requires changes at
Leeds
Sheffield or Derby
Leicester
Kettering
Bedford

 

[YorkRanger]

A couple of weeks ago I was looking at travelling from Ormskirk to Lydney so I could visit the Dean Forest Railway when it reopens in March. The journey planner kept giving itineraries that involved 5 changes (presumably due to connection times), such that it wanted me to do:

Ormskirk to Moorfields​

Moorfields to Liverpool Lime Street​

Liverpool Lime Street to Crewe​

Crewe to Stafford​

Stafford to Cheltenham Spa​

Cheltenham Spa to Lydney​

​

Realistically though, if I do visit there, I'm more likely to travel via Preston with only 2 changes:

​

Ormskirk to Preston​

Preston to Birmingham​

Birmingham to Lydney (if I time it so that it's 1 of the XC trains that stop there - if not with an extra change in Cheltenham).​

 

[infobleep]

I suspect quite a few places to MML destinations south of Bedford. Eg
Ilkley to Flitwick (not via London) requires changes at
Leeds
Sheffield or Derby
Leicester
Kettering
Bedford

Interestingly, if you put not via London (All stations) in the NRE app, it includes routes via Farringdon but with no fares, as it isn't a valid route. These non valid routes only require 3 changes.

Flitwick to Illkley can be done in 4 changes but as you say only 5 when it's Ilkley to Flitwick.

 

[ChrisC]

I suspect quite a few places to MML destinations south of Bedford. Eg
Ilkley to Flitwick (not via London) requires changes at
Leeds
Sheffield or Derby
Leicester
Kettering
Bedford

You could cut this down to 4 changes by changing at
Leeds
Nottingham
Kettering
Bedford
The Journey time would be longer because of the slower Northern train between Leeds and Nottingham.

 

[superkopite]

Thanks! Some of these are corkers! Is there a 6-leg journey out there, I wonder

 

[superkopite]

Nutfield to Oban is 5 changes.
Nutfield to Redhill
Redhill to London St Pancras International
London St Pancras International to London Kings Cross (walking)
London Kings Cross to Edingburgh
Edinburgh to Glasgow Queen Street
Glasgow Queen Street to Oban

The journey time is from around 10 hours to 20 hours according to the National Rail Enquiries app.

In the reverse direction though, it is possible to do it with just 4 trains as you can alight at Stevenage and get a train from there to Redhill.

I found a few itineraries that land you at Glasgow at 21:25 and then put you on the 05:20 to Oban the following morning, making for a whopping 15hr journey! You could almost make it to Australia in that time

 

[TheSel]

Thanks! Some of these are corkers! Is there a 6-leg journey out there, I wonder

Six legs, or six changes? Remember, one change = two legs, two changes = three legs etc.

On of my favourite permutations for the original question is Stourbridge Town to Cardiff Bay, where the journey planner frequently throws out 6 changes (7 legs) as below:














... although at certain times of day, you don't need to change quite so frequently, by changing at Stourbridge Junction, Droitwich Spa, Hereford, Cardiff Central and Cardiff Queen Street - five changes, six legs.

 

[mm333]

If you don't mind sitting in Newport for 4 hours in the middle of the night, NRES is giving me an 8 leg journey from Clitheroe to St Ives, changing at Bolton, Manchester Piccadilly, Shrewsbury, Newport, Bristol Parkway, Bristol Temple Meads and St Erth. Dep 1923, arr 1129.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

If you don't mind sitting in Newport for 4 hours in the middle of the night, NRES is giving me an 8 leg journey from Clitheroe to St Ives, changing at Bolton, Manchester Piccadilly, Shrewsbury, Newport, Bristol Parkway, Bristol Temple Meads and St Erth. Dep 1923, arr 1129.

Surely a change at Reading would, most of the time, cut out the need to make many of those changes.

 

[infobleep]

Here is another.
Stourbridge Town to Oban. It requires 5 changes.
Stourbridge Town to Stourbridge Junction
Stourbridge Town to Smethwick Gelton Junction
Smethwick Gelton Junction to Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton to Glasgow Central
Glasgow Central to Delmur
Delmur to Oban
Time is around 9 hours to 14 hours.
Enjoy or should that be endure, the journey.

 

[infobleep]

Also Stourbridge Town to St Ives is also 5 changes.
Stourbridge Town to Stourbridge Junction
Stourbridge Town to Birmingham Snowhill
Birmingham Snowhill to Birmingham New Street (walking)
Birmingham New Street to Taunton
Taunton to St Erth
St Erth to St Ives

This one is faster taking 7 hours 19 minutes to 7 hours 29 minutes.

 

[superkopite]

Maybe not the most number of changes, but this must be one of the longest journeys!

 

[Essan]

Here is another.
Stourbridge Town to Oban. It requires 5 changes.
Stourbridge Town to Stourbridge Junction
Stourbridge Town to Smethwick Gelton Junction
Smethwick Gelton Junction to Wolverhampton
Wolverhampton to Glasgow Central
Glasgow Central to Delmur
Delmur to Oban
Time is around 9 hours to 14 hours.
Enjoy or should that be endure, the journey.

Depending on the time of travel, there may well need to be another change between Wolverhampton and Glasgow!

 

[yorkie]

Out of interest, what are examples of journeys that cannot be sensibly made without say at least 5 changes. I can think of many examples that require 4 changes, but wonder if there are any that require 5, 6 or even 7 changes

Marlow > Barton-on-Humber - Search Results | TrainSplit

TrainSplit compares routes & fares to get the best value through split ticketing with no booking fee & saving up to 90%

trainsplit.com

Marlow to Barton-on-Humber

Dep 0806 arrive 1340 (via bus from Hull; over Humber Bridge) or 1349 (train only; via Haborough)

I did manage to get the itinerary on Railsmartr (no fares though) but it stopped working:

https://tickets.railsmartr.co.uk/fares?adults=1&children=0&destination=6207&origin=3021&outwardDate=2024-04-04&outwardDepartAt=08-00

On Track Retail doesn't find it:

Booking Engine

ticket.southeasternrailway.co.uk

Trainline charges £20 more than Trainsplit, with no way to avoid the bus:

Search Results | Trainline

Trainline, your quick & easy way to book train tickets across Europe. ✓ Save 61% on UK Rail ✓ Live Train Times ✓ Save with a Railcard ✓ Get the app

www.thetrainline.com

This question comes up surprisingly frequently....

Not surprising given it is an important test for journey planners

 

[etr221]

A good few years ago someone came up with a journey (using British/National Rail only) requiring 7 changes , but service changes have now reduced it to 3.

If I recall correctly, it was from Southminster branch to one particular station on the Sheerness branch (Swale Halt or Kemsley - whichever did not have a through train from London). Changing at Wickford (nothing through off the branch than), Stratford (this was long before HS1), Highbury & I (no through NLL trains then), Willesden Junction (or possibly it was Richmond, pre WLL), Clapham Junction, Victoria (?) and Sittingbourne.

 

[yorkie]

A good few years ago someone came up with a journey (using British/National Rail only) requiring 7 changes , but service changes have now reduced it to 3.

If I recall correctly, it was from Southminster branch to one particular station on the Sheerness branch (Swale Halt or Kemsley - whichever did not have a through train from London). Changing at Wickford (nothing through off the branch than), Stratford (this was long before HS1), Highbury & I (no through NLL trains then), Willesden Junction (or possibly it was Richmond, pre WLL), Clapham Junction, Victoria (?) and Sittingbourne.

I would guess we're just looking at the fastest itineraries (which for this purpose should also include the fastest route avoiding a bus link, i.e. I think Trainline are wrong to only offer the Humber Bridge bus to Barton, for the sake of 9 minutes; this will be down to their supplier, Hacon).

I think a convinced huge detour via north & west London lines, to avoid the tube, is very niche and beyond the scope of this thread (if anyone wants to make a separate thread regarding such detours, they'd be welcome to!)

 

[Bantamzen]

I suspect quite a few places to MML destinations south of Bedford. Eg
Ilkley to Flitwick (not via London) requires changes at
Leeds
Sheffield or Derby
Leicester
Kettering
Bedford

You can pad this one out more by starting at Baildon, then the first change would be Shipley or Guiseley.

 

[Peterthegreat]

You can pad this one out more by starting at Baildon, then the first change would be Shipley or Guiseley.

Good thinking!