June 2024 reopening of the line between Clitheroe and Hellifield for passenger trains

[duffield]

Watch this space. Northern are working up a plan for a Manchester to Ribblehead service starting this summer. Announced to stakeholders in Manchester this week.

I'd go for that, I'll keep an eye out. Thanks.

I've never managed to get it together for the previous service.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Watch this space. Northern are working up a plan for a Manchester to Ribblehead service starting this summer. Announced to stakeholders in Manchester this week.

Well that's good news, and interesting - not the usual Blackpool to Carlisle run, then. Manchester to Ribblehead is arguably easier to operate.

 

[Pinus contorta]

Well that's good news, and interesting - not the usual Blackpool to Carlisle run, then. Manchester to Ribblehead is arguably easier to operate.

How does that work out different with the drivers and guards then compared with the Blackpool to Carlisle staffing planning?

 

[Llandudno]

Northern west of the Pennines can’t even staff the current timetable at weekends why would they stretch themselves further?

If they have sufficient staff wouldn’t they be better increasing the likes of the mid Cheshire line to hourly on Sundays instead?

 

[Efini92]

Well that's good news, and interesting - not the usual Blackpool to Carlisle run, then. Manchester to Ribblehead is arguably easier to operate.

I’m not sure about that, which depot(s) would need to learn the route? If it’s split between Manchester/blackpool/blackburn to Helifield, then skipton. There’s traction issues.

 

[InkyScrolls]

How does that work out different with the drivers and guards then compared with the Blackpool to Carlisle staffing planning?

I’m not sure about that, which depot(s) would need to learn the route? If it’s split between Manchester/blackpool/blackburn to Hellifield, then skipton. There’s traction issues.

Previously a Blackpool conductor worked all the way to Carlisle, while the drivers swapped at Hellifield (Blackpool/Skipton). Only Blackpool drivers sign Clitheroe to Hellifield (yes, really!).

I would presume, now that all Blackpool crews are out of competency for the route, that Blackburn would learn Clitheroe to Hellifield, with Skipton crews taking over there as before. But that remains to be seen.

 

[yorksrob]

Going to Ribblehead makes sense in this context.

Settle is a bigger tourist draw than Hellifield and Ribblehead itself is popular with walkers.

 

[Efini92]

Previously a Blackpool conductor worked all the way to Carlisle, while the drivers swapped at Hellifield (Blackpool/Skipton). Only Blackpool drivers sign Clitheroe to Hellifield (yes, really!).

I would presume, now that all Blackpool crews are out of competency for the route, that Blackburn would learn Clitheroe to Hellifield, with Skipton crews taking over there as before. But that remains to be seen.

That’s what I would assume they would do, but there’s still an issue of traction. I don’t think Blackburn and skipton sign any of the same traction.

 

[Britannia94]

That’s what I would assume they would do, but there’s still an issue of traction. I don’t think Blackburn and skipton sign any of the same traction.

Even though they don't have any booked work on them guards used to still sign class 150s at Skipton, don't know about drivers though.

 

[yorksrob]

That’s what I would assume they would do, but there’s still an issue of traction. I don’t think Blackburn and skipton sign any of the same traction.

158's ?

 

[Efini92]

158's ?

Skipton do, Blackburn took them off

 

[yorksrob]

Skipton do, Blackburn took them off

That's a big gap in that case.

 

[InkyScrolls]

Even though they don't have any booked work on them guards used to still sign class 150s at Skipton, don't know about drivers though.

Guards still sign 150s (/1 and /2) at Skipton, but you're right that drivers do not. An interesting conundrum! The simplest option is for Manchester crews to sign as far as Hellifield, as they already sign the Clitheroe line as far as Horrocksford Jct. and 158s.

 

[Bertie the bus]

Guards still sign 150s (/1 and /2) at Skipton, but you're right that drivers do not. An interesting conundrum! The simplest option is for Manchester crews to sign as far as Hellifield, as they already sign the Clitheroe line as far as Horrocksford Jct. and 158s.

The simplest solution has already been suggested on this thread:

Northern west of the Pennines can’t even staff the current timetable at weekends why would they stretch themselves further?

Forget about all the frilly nonsense and concentrate on running the core service reliably.

 

[InkyScrolls]

The simplest solution has already been suggested on this thread:

Forget about all the frilly nonsense and concentrate on running the core service reliably.

Given the service has been withdrawn without consultation it has to be reinstated whether Northern wish to or not, in some form or another.

 

[30907]

Northern west of the Pennines can’t even staff the current timetable at weekends why would they stretch themselves further?

Quite possibly do-able within existing rosters.

If they have sufficient staff wouldn’t they be better increasing the likes of the mid Cheshire line to hourly on Sundays instead?

Don't think Blackburn sign mid-Cheshire?

 

[Jack Hay]

Northern west of the Pennines can’t even staff the current timetable at weekends why would they stretch themselves further?

If they have sufficient staff wouldn’t they be better increasing the likes of the mid Cheshire line to hourly on Sundays instead?

I'd like to see Mid Cheshire increased to hourly on Sundays, but that's a different matter. This Ribblehead service is to operate on Saturdays only, or so stakeholders were told, so it avoids the Sunday staffing difficulties.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd like to see Mid Cheshire increased to hourly on Sundays, but that's a different matter. This Ribblehead service is to operate on Saturdays only, or so stakeholders were told, so it avoids the Sunday staffing difficulties.

So it's just a slight rehash of DalesRail, I guess?

Probably more useful on a Saturday, more services will connect with it so give a wider catchment.

 

[Gaz67]

I'd like to see Mid Cheshire increased to hourly on Sundays, but that's a different matter. This Ribblehead service is to operate on Saturdays only, or so stakeholders were told, so it avoids the Sunday staffing difficulties.

Was just about to post how excited I was about this service as living in East Lancs we spend a lot of time in the dales and leaving the car and travelling on the train appeals to me. However reading this last post has totally turned me off, another crumb of inconsequence offered to us northerners post HS 2 cancellation.

 

[Jack Hay]

So it's just a slight rehash of DalesRail, I guess?

Probably more useful on a Saturday, more services will connect with it so give a wider catchment.

It didn't sound as if Northern saw it as a re-hash of DalesRail. For a start, they're planning to run it year-round and not just in the summer. That itself makes it different so it's likely to have different branding. I agree that Saturday is likely to work better because more people will be able to get to one of the train's calling points. Northern have seen that leisure travel is increasing strongly post-Covid and I think DfT are encouraging them to find new ways of tapping the market. There are a lot of potential destinations that are not well served today and could generate more traffic if they were easier to reach. I hope this is just the start.

 

[Ant158]

Aside from the line to Hellifield, is there a plan to make the Clitheroe service half hourly during the week?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Aside from the line to Hellifield, is there a plan to make the Clitheroe service half hourly during the week?

Does it definitely need to operate that frequently?

 

[Ant158]

Does it definitely need to operate that frequently?

During the daytime and evening probably not, but would be good as a regular commuter to have the Blackburn terminators extend to Clitheroe between 4 and 6pm

 

[Mcr Warrior]

During the daytime and evening probably not, but would be good as a regular commuter to have the Blackburn terminators extend to Clitheroe between 4 and 6pm

Indeed. Think it's only at the very start and end of service that there's ever a "half hourly" interval between services.

 

[30907]

During the daytime and evening probably not, but would be good as a regular commuter to have the Blackburn terminators extend to Clitheroe between 4 and 6pm

ISTR the service was better than hourly in the evening peak at one time, but it was at the expense of the Manchester-bound service. You'd need an extra unit to do the job properly - which could be used on weekday trains to Hellifield and beyond.

 

[Jack Hay]

ISTR the service was better than hourly in the evening peak at one time, but it was at the expense of the Manchester-bound service. You'd need an extra unit to do the job properly - which could be used on weekday trains to Hellifield and beyond.

Yes, I think the same, but wasn't the problem preventing a more frequent service from Clitheroe to Manchester, a lack of spare paths through Darwen?

 

[Geeves]

There was 5 options and the option that was picked was one that sees the Rochdale to Blackburn (extended to Clitheroe) continue on to Ribblehead every two hours. Its not a Dalerail type scheme its a proper all week all day service. Blackburn will need to learn the job as it will likely be their depot that sign it all rather than including multiple other depots that dont sign the traction

Blackburn depot were in the process of learning to Hellifield already before the whole DalesRail run was unceremoniously scrapped. Rochdale to Blackburn is their core work which they seem quite able to cover so all in all keeping things simple with one depot it will be a success!

Reinstatement of disused railway in Lancashire tabled | New Civil Engineer

The section of the Ribble Valley line north of Blackburn was closed to passenger services in 1962 but remained open for freight. In 1994, services between

www.newcivilengineer.com

 

[InkyScrolls]

There was 5 options and the option that was picked was one that sees the Rochdale to Blackburn (extended to Clitheroe) continue on to Ribblehead every two hours. Its not a Dalerail type scheme its a proper all week all day service. Blackburn will need to learn the job as it will likely be their depot that sign it all rather than including multiple other depots that dont sign the traction

Reinstatement of disused railway in Lancashire tabled | New Civil Engineer

The section of the Ribble Valley line north of Blackburn was closed to passenger services in 1962 but remained open for freight. In 1994, services between

www.newcivilengineer.com

That will be very interesting if it happens. And convenient for me personally!

 

[deltic08]

Going to Ribblehead makes sense in this context.

Settle is a bigger tourist draw than Hellifield and Ribblehead itself is popular with walkers.

Would a North Workington type station the length of Beauly station be built at Chatburn and Gisburn to test the water if the line is going to be used daily all year round? Any extra passengers would help the balance sheet for the line.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That will be very interesting if it happens. And convenient for me personally!

With the popularity of the Hope Valley services, at the right price this could be a very popular walker's destination from Manchester - even more so with a two-hourly service than the infrequent DalesRail. Horton and Ribblehead are I'd think the two most popular walkers' destinations, and obviously there's the option of a day out in Settle too - I think this could potentially do quite well, at least on a Saturday.