Justification for Network Railcard

[WestCoast]

In my experience of using split tickets (on a different route) the ticket office staff don't usually seem very happy about it. Twice they have tried to refuse me a split and when they realized that they had to issue the tickets I asked for they were still not very happy issueing them. Would the Swindon ticket office even be able to issue a Didcot to London fare with a Network Railcard discount?

The FGW staff at your origin station don't seem very good then, ticket offices can easily issue a ticket for anywhere on the network! I'd complain, don't put up with a bad attitude. Rail fares can be extortionate, sometimes the only way to make it financially viable is by using splits! If the ticket office staff won't issue them easily, then they aren't doing their job properly.

I've had split ticketing done with a smile at Northern, Virgin, TPE, Scotrail, Merseyrail, SWT and ATW ticket offices!

ATW and Northern Rail guards (!) seem very happy to do split tickets, if boarding at one their unstaffed halts.

It's your right to ask for whatever ticket you want - if it meets all the obvious rules!

 

[Flamingo]

I have no objection to split tickets, my objection to passengers using them is:
1. When the passenger with the split starts to bitch and moan when they get charged up as the train did not stop there
2. When a passenger asks for them when they have boarded from a station that has a manned ticket office
3. When the passenger doesn't show both parts, and you think they have over-ridden when walking past them later in the journey.

The Swindon booking office will issue this (they seem to do it for every football fan travelling from Swindon as a matter of course)

 

[WestCoast]

I have no objection to split tickets, my objection to passengers using them is:
1. When the passenger with the split starts to bitch and moan when they get charged up as the train did not stop there and
2. When a passenger asks for them when they have boarded from a station that has a manned ticket office.
3. When the passenger doesn't show both parts, and you think they have over-ridden when walking past them later in the journey.

Exactly, if the ticket meets criteria, why should the ticket office be reluctant to issue one? That's what they are paid to do, sell tickets! :roll:

3. When the passenger doesn't show both parts, and you think they have over-ridden when walking past them later in the journey.

That's a tricky one, there is no rule. I usually hand over a bunch of tickets to the guard for the journey, but sometimes they only inspect the first one and then walk off. However, you are a very thorough guard from what you've said in the past!

 

[Zoe]

When the passenger doesn't show both parts, and you think they have over-ridden when walking past them later in the journey.

Should you show both tickets at the same time then? I have done this before only to find the guard uninterested in the second ticket until that part of the journey. There could be an issue of there is a change of guard and both tickets have been clipped. The second guard could think that you have already used the ticket.

 

[Flamingo]

If it's two different trains and a separate ticket for each then just show the one relevant to that train, if the whole journey is on that train, then show all the tickets. If the guard doesn't look at all of them, then no problem, at least you showed them.

 

[yorksrob]

The issue with having it valid on all services is TOCs could lose revenue if people switch away from advance fares where the TOC gets all the revenue to walk-up fares where they only get the ORCATS share. If more people used walk-up fares on intercity routes you would also have the potential for more overcrowding. This could be reduced by increasing the price of advance fares but that is never going to be popular, I doubt many would want to give up the rock bottom advance fares in exchange for a discount on walk-up fares.

I believe that the point of the study was to investigate whether such a scheme would increase passenger use and revenue, and I believe they concluded that it would probably do both. Of course, existing routes which rely heavily on advanced purchase would have to adjust prices more than those that didn't, however, a reduction in revenue due to fewer passengers taking up advanced purchase may well be covered by an increase in revenue from increased use of walk-on (albeit discounted) fares.

Of course, in the days when Inter-City was a relatively distinct and well known brand, you could have started with a Network Card covering Regional, Scotrail and NSE but excluding Inter-City journeys. Such an approach would be rather more complicated for the passenger nowadays.

 

[WestCoast]

If it's two different trains and a separate ticket for each then just show the one relevant to that train, if the whole journey is on that train, then show all the tickets. If the guard doesn't look at all of them, then no problem, at least you showed them.

That's what I've always done, 50% of the time he/she isn't interested in the second portion.

I once handed over a single journey with four split tickets - the guard just laughed!

Do most guards actually remember where each passenger is going?

Of course, in the days when Inter-City was a relatively distinct and well known brand, you could have started with a Network Card covering Regional, Scotrail and NSE but excluding Inter-City journeys. Such an approach would be rather more complicated for the passenger nowadays.

That is similar to the approach taken in many other countries, the cheaper regional tariffs will often exclude the intercity services, which are distinct and recognisable to the average traveller.

 

[Lampshade]

I've always found fares in the South East to be quite reasonable, don't forget that it looks steep compared with Northern for example but wages are also higher in line with goods and services so it's not as bad.

 

[WestCoast]

I've always found fares in the South East to be quite reasonable, don't forget that it looks steep compared with Northern for example but wages are also higher in line with goods and services so it's not as bad.

Yes, that is a point. The off-peak fares in SE England have never struck me as being ridiculously high. Most are roughly comparable to non-PTE subsidised fares in other areas of the country. Peak fares are often a different story.

Then again, there are brilliant offers like the Southern Day Saver which are great value. Not as cheap as WY Metro fares of course- they seem artificially low due to heavy subsidies.

The same can't be said for some of the 'shorter-distance' fares on East Coast like York - Doncaster.

 

[Failed Unit]

The issue with having it valid on all services is TOCs could lose revenue if people switch away from advance fares where the TOC gets all the revenue to walk-up fares where they only get the ORCATS share. If more people used walk-up fares on intercity routes you would also have the potential for more overcrowding. This could be reduced by increasing the price of advance fares but that is never going to be popular, I doubt many would want to give up the rock bottom advance fares in exchange for a discount on walk-up fares.

Depends how you look at it. How many journeys per year do you make on trains with APs (were you buy the rock bottom price) how many journeys do you make on trains where no AP is possible. I do much more on the later if i saved 1/3 on these fares I would be able to afford the walk up fare on IC journeys!

 

[Zoe]

Depends how you look at it. How many journeys per year do you make on trains with APs (were you buy the rock bottom price) how many journeys do you make on trains where no AP is possible. I do much more on the later if i saved 1/3 on these fares I would be able to afford the walk up fare on IC journeys!

Another point is that a discount on walk-up fares on intercity routes would likely encourage some people to switch from car. I know of people that would be quite happy to travel by train were it not for the expensive walk-up fares. It could be argued that these people should just book in advance but one reason they prefer the car is due to the flexibility it gives them.