paul1609
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Good News ,
Department for Transport said:
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K&ESR/RVR Robertsbridge TWA approved!
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Indeed. That has been a long time coming!
pdeaves
Established Member
Is there any reason why the letter consistently refers to 'Udiam'? Is this a local name for Bodiam? Of the typist simply making a consistent slip-up? (Genuine question).
bramling
Veteran Member
Yes about time indeed. Some of the objections from the Salehurst area in particular have always been rather silly in my view.
It’s the name of the farm immediately adjacent to where the track currently finishes.
Indeed. Some uncooperative local landowners who have taken a few years to move away/die off/otherwise persuade, AIUI!
paul1609
Established Member
Udiam is the name of the Hamlet where Junction Road Halt was. Junction Road was the turnpike road between Hastings and Hawkhurst. It's currently the end of the line from Tenterden.
pdeaves
Established Member
paul1609
Established Member
-iam in the local dialect derives from the old English hamm, it means roughly water meadow hemmed in by the river or marsh. Bod, Udi or North on the line refer to the owners of the meadow.
Once you reach Kent nearly every station on the line ends in -den that's Kentish for woodland pasture.
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This....this is excellent news to hear!!! Seen Roberstbridge junction a few times since 2017 and i am really glad its going to finally get its mainline connection
. I assume April 2026 the first train and will it re-enact the last train as the line has most of the rolling stock from that day in June 1961.
Finally, how is 4253 coming along? as when i have met them at events they have said that the loco will play a huge part in the lines extension.
. I assume April 2026 the first train and will it re-enact the last train as the line has most of the rolling stock from that day in June 1961.Finally, how is 4253 coming along? as when i have met them at events they have said that the loco will play a huge part in the lines extension.
paul1609
Established Member
We've successfully rebuilt both A28 level crossing structures on the K&ESR proper in 2017 and 2023 during a weekend road closure. Obviously there's prep and clearance work either side of that. As they've been showcase events for our supplier there's been big "mainline" audience at times. The new level crossings will be full barriers with cctv so the fitting out will take longer but I don't really see the level crossings as a problem. Somewhere there is a time lapse video of the Rolvenden renewal works. I think the time consuming bit will be rebuilding the foundation with the new flood prevention for 5 fields east of the A21.
Revolutionary level crossing on Kent heritage railway - Rail Engineer
The Kent and East Sussex Railway (KESR) originally opened in 1900 and, after 1905, joined the Hastings line at Robertsbridge with the South Eastern main line at Headcorn. It was built under the provisions of the 1896 Light Railways Act, rather than the standards imposed on ‘heavy’ railways. This...
www.railengineer.co.uk
Train Maniac
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Well done to all involved! Look forward to taking a ride in a few years time
It actually says UNlikely!
paul1609
Established Member
4253s timeline will now be defined by the overhaul of the boiler at HBSS in Liverpool. https://www.4253.co.uk/category/progress/This....this is excellent news to hear!!! Seen Roberstbridge junction a few times since 2017 and i am really glad its going to finally get its mainline connection
Finally, how is 4253 coming along? as when i have met them at events they have said that the loco will play a huge part in the lines extension.
It actually says "substantive works are unlikely to start before next year". Given that the decision was only yesterday and the studies that the landowners had previous refused need to be carried out that's really not surprising. Bearing in mind that the campaign to save the whole Robertsbridge to Tenterden section started in 1960 its not a big deal. The chairman Gardner Crawley and vice chairman Mike Hart of the RVR were both schoolboys when the campaign started!
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paul1609
Established Member
The K&ESR has always operated both sections in terms of running trains. On completion the K &ESR will take over the running of Robertsbridge Junction Station.
Having the RVR as a separate company protects the K &ESR as an educational charity from the risks associated with the construction project. Most of the volunteers at Robertsbridge are also members of the K &ESR so its not really a contentious relationship. You'll notice that the Inspector/ SofS considered the K&ESRs financial viability as an aspect in the RVRs application.
Hi Paul. I'm not questioning the full barriers at the new crossings which I think are essential. Open and half barriers are usually unacceptable today, even for crossing renewals of those types on the national network, but the RVR website Objectives page - https://www.rvr.org.uk/objectives.html states:
Is it possible the railway might be considering the new AFBCL (automatic full barrier crossing locally monitored) type for these, as first installed in 2018 at Ardrossan Princes Street in Scotland (next to the Town station)? With these, road user delay can be minimised to something like that usually associated with AHBC and ABCL crossings rather than the much longer time involved with traditional MCBs, whether manually operated and supervised (local attendant/CCTV) or automated using auto-lower/raise and obstacle detection. AFBCLs have the full barriers and obstacle-detection features nonetheless, but supervision is carried out by local monitoring on final approach by the train driver, assisted by a flashing red/white light indicator like the AOCL/ABCL type that checks the obstacle detection as well as the barrier position and integrity, control equipment sequence, and road light illumination. AFBCL is not universally suitable on the national network, as they're limited to a maximum rail approach speed of 55mph in case of best approach sighting and possibly much slower where sighting is poor, but that shouldn't be a problem for K&ESR services!
Here's a video of the Ardrossan installation with a train approaching from the Harbour terminus. In this direction, the warning sequence starts exactly one minute before the train reaches the crossing, with a total road closure time for this four-car set of only about 90 seconds.
I have a question regarding Robertsbridge (National rail) station from a KESR/RVR standpoint. I went through Robertsbridge on Saturday on the train and i noticed that the signal box was in BR southern region green in which is clearly a repaint in the past 10-15 year to that livery. I am wondering would the KESR if if got the permission to do so repaint the NR station in Br Southern region green?
The station will probably see some redevelopment soon anyway as the KESR is a very wheelchair accessible line so it would make sense that work would happen at the station site in order to replace the old British rail bridge so the KESR might aswell try and get the station into a nice heritage livery as opposed to the bland Southeastern one across the whole network as part of the Robertsbridge development plans.
Yeah i can appreciate the sentiment of 'Why KESR money on a NR station' and its definitely an afterthought in comparison to getting the extension done. However, i can see the appeal of a repainted station being something nice for people to look up at when the train pulls into both Robertsbridge stations, enthusiasts will like it as it would serve as a good place to see railtours at and then see the KESR Robertsbridge site, and at the end of the day as NR would probably pay for the new footbridge the most the KESR/RVR would need to look into is paint but it would go a long way to help the KESR/RVR/Southeastern/NR images just through a paint restoration.
Source https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1733902
The station will probably see some redevelopment soon anyway as the KESR is a very wheelchair accessible line so it would make sense that work would happen at the station site in order to replace the old British rail bridge so the KESR might aswell try and get the station into a nice heritage livery as opposed to the bland Southeastern one across the whole network as part of the Robertsbridge development plans.
Yeah i can appreciate the sentiment of 'Why KESR money on a NR station' and its definitely an afterthought in comparison to getting the extension done. However, i can see the appeal of a repainted station being something nice for people to look up at when the train pulls into both Robertsbridge stations, enthusiasts will like it as it would serve as a good place to see railtours at and then see the KESR Robertsbridge site, and at the end of the day as NR would probably pay for the new footbridge the most the KESR/RVR would need to look into is paint but it would go a long way to help the KESR/RVR/Southeastern/NR images just through a paint restoration.
Source https://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/1733902
paul1609
Established Member
Robertsbridge footbridge is actually a relatively recent structure. The step free access to/from the Up platform is by a path from the level crossing as seen in Google Street View. https://www.google.com/maps/@50.984...4!1skTBQYeUzexc2ejkXP4A2VQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
The original lattice footbridge was acquired by the K &ESR for use at Northiam but for a variety of reasons proved unsuitable at that site. It's now the footbridge that takes you over the Esk Valley line at Grosmont from the NYMR platform to the National Park Car Park.
It would be nice in the future to be in a financial situation to be able to sponsor the painting of the National Rail station but maybe that would have to reflect on the fact that BR only ran the line from 1948 to 1961 and the only real action they carried out in that time was to close it! by comparison next year is the 50th Anniversary of Preservation Passenger Ops.
So Basically:
K & ESR Co Ltd (Preservation) 49 years
K & ESR Co Ltd ( Col Stephens) 47 years (includes the time under Army Control)
BR (Southern) 13 years
For anybody interested we are operating a service over the rare (for the moment) Bodiam to Junction Road section this coming weekend.
The original lattice footbridge was acquired by the K &ESR for use at Northiam but for a variety of reasons proved unsuitable at that site. It's now the footbridge that takes you over the Esk Valley line at Grosmont from the NYMR platform to the National Park Car Park.
It would be nice in the future to be in a financial situation to be able to sponsor the painting of the National Rail station but maybe that would have to reflect on the fact that BR only ran the line from 1948 to 1961 and the only real action they carried out in that time was to close it! by comparison next year is the 50th Anniversary of Preservation Passenger Ops.
So Basically:
K & ESR Co Ltd (Preservation) 49 years
K & ESR Co Ltd ( Col Stephens) 47 years (includes the time under Army Control)
BR (Southern) 13 years
For anybody interested we are operating a service over the rare (for the moment) Bodiam to Junction Road section this coming weekend.
To be brutally honest, using the BR Green hasn't stopped the SKLR and EKR with the 'hotdog totem' at Sheperdswell from adopting it in preservation despite the green had little relevance to the lines history so i cant see why it would be an accuracy problem especially as it would be for the mainline station. I just think if Robertsbridge (NR) took the BR green from the 'Alton style scheme' as i put it (painting the mainline and heritage railway station in a heritage scheme to make the station keep with the heritage theme throughout) i reckon it would add to heritage theme of the area in contrast to a dull, peeling Southeastern blue - its just a good opportunity for the KESR to take if they want to.
Can only imagine that when Robertsbridge junction is done seeming as its supposed to be of a similar style to Tenterden town it will be in Dark red and cream scheme. The last bit you brought up is a good call as there is going to be a steam gala on the KESR and seeming as the £2 bus cap is still running its probably the best opportunity to come down and see the KESR before the link is complete.
paul1609
Established Member
Indeed, Robertsbridge junction will be in K & ESR livery. The toilet block is already complete, this was its opening by Huw Merriman. P1020468.JPGTo be brutally honest, using the BR Green hasn't stopped the SKLR and EKR with the 'hotdog totem' at Sheperdswell from adopting it in preservation despite the green had little relevance to the lines history so i cant see why it would be an accuracy problem especially as it would be for the mainline station. I just think if Robertsbridge (NR) took the BR green from the 'Alton style scheme' as i put it (painting the mainline and heritage railway station in a heritage scheme to make the station keep with the heritage theme throughout) i reckon it would add to heritage theme of the area in contrast to a dull, peeling Southeastern blue - its just a good opportunity for the KESR to take if they want to.
Can only imagine that when Robertsbridge junction is done seeming as its supposed to be of a similar style to Tenterden town it will be in Dark red and cream scheme. The last bit you brought up is a good call as there is going to be a steam gala on the KESR and seeming as the £2 bus cap is still running its probably the best opportunity to come down and see the KESR before the link is complete.
Very smart looking building there!
paul1609
Established Member
The inside is so smart it probably attaches a Pullman Supplement, def. steam loco crew not welcome here!
railfan99
Established Member
Congratulations. Marvellous achievement.
Living in a state 17,000 kilometres away where (generally speaking) no new level crossings are approved, even in rural areas, paragraphs 21 and 24 of the Secretary's decision were a breath of fresh air. Even better that your Highways Authority withdrew an objection re plans for the A21 level crossing. Being forced to build an overhead road bridge, or lower the road or railway, would not only be hugely expensive and beyond the resources of 99.9 per cent of heritage railways but aesthetically immensely displeasing, and as a side issue it could attract graffiti vandals.
Is the decision likely to be appealed through the courts by dissatisfied landowners/farmers?
In Victoria, Oz, generally when compulsory acquisition occurs, the relevant government has the land valued, but on top of that pays the soon to be previous owner a solatium, typically an extra 10 per cent. Is that required here and does it add to K&ESR's/RVR's total capital expenses?
As I am visiting this railway in a few short months and using a road coach/bus to arrive at and depart from Tenterden, it's great that if one returns a few short years later, it'll have a main line connection. Robertsbridge appears to have a beautiful 'sb' (station building).
So K&ESR not only has a Tourism Superstar in Head SM Geoff Colvin, but may also 'star' in time by attracting some TOCs testing works or whatever once the branch to main line points are in use.
Is there much new trackwork and signalling required at Robertsbridge?
Living in a state 17,000 kilometres away where (generally speaking) no new level crossings are approved, even in rural areas, paragraphs 21 and 24 of the Secretary's decision were a breath of fresh air. Even better that your Highways Authority withdrew an objection re plans for the A21 level crossing. Being forced to build an overhead road bridge, or lower the road or railway, would not only be hugely expensive and beyond the resources of 99.9 per cent of heritage railways but aesthetically immensely displeasing, and as a side issue it could attract graffiti vandals.
Is the decision likely to be appealed through the courts by dissatisfied landowners/farmers?
In Victoria, Oz, generally when compulsory acquisition occurs, the relevant government has the land valued, but on top of that pays the soon to be previous owner a solatium, typically an extra 10 per cent. Is that required here and does it add to K&ESR's/RVR's total capital expenses?
As I am visiting this railway in a few short months and using a road coach/bus to arrive at and depart from Tenterden, it's great that if one returns a few short years later, it'll have a main line connection. Robertsbridge appears to have a beautiful 'sb' (station building).
So K&ESR not only has a Tourism Superstar in Head SM Geoff Colvin, but may also 'star' in time by attracting some TOCs testing works or whatever once the branch to main line points are in use.
Is there much new trackwork and signalling required at Robertsbridge?
brad465
Established Member
There is also a gauging station on the River Rother called Udiam GS, right next to the current end point of the track from Bodiam. The Environment Agency will have been involved plenty in the project to make sure flood risk is managed in relation to the works and eventual finished setup.
RAIL have dedicated a small feature in the latest edition to this story as well.
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railfan99
Established Member
I've read a fair bit re this extension, but not every technical paper.
Will culverts be required to ensure any water has somewhere to go?
paul1609
Established Member
Hope this link works! https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zCtkv_i7-Lyxo8o_U6NMLDV1M-rUXJxh/view
Go to page 11 onwards, zoom in and you can see the extent of the bridges and culverts required its lots but we do have lots of experience in this. Only Rother Bridge on the Kent/Sussex border is a pre-preservation structure on the 11 miles of the current K & ESR, all the rest has had to be rebuilt because it was basically falling down as inherited from BR.
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