Khan manifesto: Overground lines to be named - what would you call them?

[Wolfie]

What promises has Khan achieved? Neither he or Johnson will ever live up to Ken Livingstone who actually cared about London and had a much larger presence as mayor than either of his successors have, like him or hate him Livingstone was the best mayor London has had so far.

I wouldn't disagree with that at all. Most of any recent London transport improvements came out of that time.

 

[Vespa]

I don't see how you have knowledge of why a majority of the London electorate voted the way they have.

He only got in because some areas vote tribally like some towns do London has always been red in a sea of blue, in fact in many consituencies if you were to put a Labour or Conservative rosette on a pig people will vote for it regardless.

To date Khan done nothing of note other than to slap an extra tax on motorists by expanding the charging zone, Ken Livingstone introduced congestion charging in the first place.

 

[AM9]

He only got in because some areas vote tribally like some towns do London has always been red in a sea of blue, in fact in many consituencies if you were to put a Labour or Conservative rosette on a pig people will vote for it regardless.

He got it just like any other politician does in an election, he got more votes than other candidates. As you say, there are plenty of areas where voters elect their re[p[resentatives by the colour of their rosettes, Lomndon has a mix of partisan areas just like elsewhere.

To date Khan done nothing of note other than to slap an extra tax on motorists by expanding the charging zone, Ken Livingstone introduced congestion charging in the first place.

Or to put it more accurately, the London Mayor continued the efforts to reduce traffic pollution, especially important since the coroner identified it as a cause the death of a nine year old child.

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Or to put it more accurately, the London Mayor continued the efforts to reduce traffic pollution, especially important since the coroner identified it as a cause the death of a nine year old child.

It's certainly important to reduce vehicle emissions in London and has been for a long time. However it is questionable if the policies being implemented do that. I know of several changes to road layout which oblige vehicles to travel more miles and several more which compel motorists to sit at new traffic lights with their engines running.

 

[Wolfie]

He only got in because some areas vote tribally like some towns do London has always been red in a sea of blue, in fact in many consituencies if you were to put a Labour or Conservative rosette on a pig people will vote for it regardless.

To date Khan done nothing of note other than to slap an extra tax on motorists by expanding the charging zone, Ken Livingstone introduced congestion charging in the first place.

London was much closer in the past. If you look at the old Greater London Council three of the six administrations were Tory. Now things are very different. The latest polls suggest that the Tories may well lose Wandsworth and Barnet this week.

Congestion charging was introduced to reduce pollution and provide funds for public transport. Seems like a decent plan to me.

It's certainly important to reduce vehicle emissions in London and has been for a long time. However it is questionable if the policies being implemented do that. I know of several changes to road layout which oblige vehicles to travel more miles and several more which compel motorists to sit at new traffic lights with their engines running.

Motorists better get used to the fact that increasingly they are not the priority.

 

[bramling]

I don't see how you have knowledge of why a majority of the London electorate voted the way they have.

I was more thinking of how the mayoral candidate is selected in the first place, though clearly this is what the parties feel is needed to win.

Look back at the three mayors London has been unfortunate enough to have. They’re all pretty unsavoury.

 

[Wolfie]

I was more thinking of how the mayoral candidate is selected in the first place, though clearly this is what the parties feel is needed to win.

Look back at the three mayors London has been unfortunate enough to have. They’re all pretty unsavoury.

Ken Livingston was first elected as Mayor as an independent. Frank Dobson was the official Labour candidate.

 

[MarkyT]

I was more thinking of how the mayoral candidate is selected in the first place, though clearly this is what the parties feel is needed to win.

Look back at the three mayors London has been unfortunate enough to have. They’re all pretty unsavoury.

Not exceptional or very charismatic, but I wouldn't say Khan has been 'unsavoury', except to people who have a problem with his skin colour or cultural background. Johnson well... 'nuff said, but at least he didn't cancel the London Overground project. Livingstone was no doubt charismatic and a great innovator, especially in transport, but unfortunately, years later fell into some of those lazy antisemitic tropes that sometimes circulate in leftist communities. I don't believe he was ever genuinely prejudiced, but as an important political figure he had a duty to be more careful and not to repeat and promulgate such views.

 

[AM9]

Not exceptional or very charismatic, but I wouldn't say Khan has been 'unsavoury', except to people who have a problem with his skin colour or cultural background. Johnson well... 'nuff said, but at least he didn't cancel the London Overground project. Livingston was no doubt charismatic and a great innovator, especially in transport, but unfortunately, years later fell into some of those lazy antisemitic tropes that sometimes circulate in leftist communities. I don't believe he was ever genuinely prejudiced, but as an important political figure he had a duty to be more careful and not to repeat and promulgate such views.

That just about sums up my feelings on all three of them. I might add that both Johnson and Khan have had pet projects that weren't budgeted adequately, Johnson's were the 'Boris Dangleway', the Garden Bridge and the wasteful Borismater bus (NBfL) that had poor ventilation despite an open platform that is now unused- total cost of all three: just under £1bn. Khan's main overspends have been fixing problems caused by previous mayors, e.g. fixing the NBfL shortcomings, holding back transport fare rises that rose 42% under Johnson, and servicing costs for the TfL loans taken out by the two previous mayors (Livingstone borrowed £2bn, Johnson £7bn). Both mayors had financial issues but at least Khan's benefitted the electorate.

 

[Basil Jet]

the Jubilee in its current form could have been the Southwark line

Naming a line after one of its stations is a bad idea in a tourist city, because it makes the phrase "Is this the Victoria train" ambiguous when asked about a Victoria Line train heading away from Victoria. I'd quite like to see the Victoria Line revert to the Viking Line name used during planning.

 

[yorkie]

Can we stick to the topic please?

I understand it's all loosely connected but opinions on Khan himself or any of his other policies should be posted in a new thread, thanks

 

[Railwaysceptic]

Motorists better get used to the fact that increasingly they are not the priority.

It sounds as though you don't like motorists! I hope you feel cleaner having got that spleen out of your system.

Motorists in London are well aware that all three Mayors so far have regarded them as of nil priority. This does not evade the fact that anti-motorist road policies in London bring about an increase in vehicle emissions. Nor does it address the issue that a marked reduction in vehicle use would have a catastrophic effect on government finances.

Can we stick to the topic please?

I understand it's all loosely connected but opinions on Khan himself or any of his other policies should be posted in a new thread, thanks

Apologies. I've had my last word on the subject in this thread.

 

[SynthD]

How do local mainstream media, like the Evening Standard, refer to the different lines?

 

[cle]

How do local mainstream media, like the Evening Standard, refer to the different lines?

North London, West London, East London Lines. Maybe that will remain but it's a bit long-form and not too distinctive.

Another approach could be the "Richmond-Stratford" line etc.. approach - which is kinda what GOBLIN is.

 

[MarkyT]

North London, West London, East London Lines. Maybe that will remain but it's a bit long-form and not too distinctive.

Another approach could be the "Richmond-Stratford" line etc.. approach - which is kinda what GOBLIN is.

So, maybe shortened to Stratrich, Stratclapjunc, Highcrystpal, Highcroy, etc. Don't exactly roll off the tongue do they!
Realistically I'd go for NL1,2 for orbital Stratford-Clapham Jn and Stratford-Richmond respectively. EL1,2,3 for routes from Highbury & Islington. Different prefixes and numbers for radial Euston-Watford and West Anglia routes. Separate colours for different prefix subnets within an overall family branding.

 

[cle]

So, maybe shortened to Stratrich, Stratclapjunc, Highcrystpal, Highcroy, etc. Don't exactly roll off the tongue do they!
Realistically I'd go for NL1,2 for orbital Stratford-Clapham Jn and Stratford-Richmond respectively. EL1,2,3 for routes from Highbury & Islington. Different prefixes and numbers for radial Euston-Watford and West Anglia routes. Separate colours for different prefix subnets within an overall family branding.

We don't brand the branches on the Met or District as separate lines, so maybe the one to Stratford is one line from both Richmond and CJ (which is the NLL as its core - the WLL could be a name for the Southern service?) - and the ELL is another. GOBLIN another, and Euston-Watford a fourth. Wat Eus?

 

[MarkyT]

We don't brand the branches on the Met or District as separate lines, so maybe the one to Stratford is one line from both Richmond and CJ (which is the NLL as its core - the WLL could be a name for the Southern service?) - and the ELL is another. GOBLIN another, and Euston-Watford a fourth. Wat Eus?

I would argue that some route number identification for the complex branching within the Met and District branding would be quite useful, but they're not absolutely necessary I agree. Splitting the LO network into some differently identified subnets will become increasingly important if any more inner suburban radial services are taken over from mainline operators.

 

[stuu]

I would argue that some route number identification for the complex branching within the Met and District branding would be quite useful, but they're not absolutely necessary I agree. Splitting the LO network into some differently identified subnets will become increasingly important if any more inner suburban radial services are taken over from mainline operators.

The Wimbledon-Edgware service should be identified separately, but the others are all pretty clear - off peak the Met is all stations too these days so there's much less complexity to deal with. Not like the past where the uninitiated would stare at the Central London tube map wondering where Chesham Fast is

 

[sga962]

Watford to Euston could be the Watson. Portmantou like the Bakerloo it parallels for a bit and would give us a Watson to Baker Streets Sherlock

 

[cle]

The Wimbledon-Edgware service should be identified separately, but the others are all pretty clear - off peak the Met is all stations too these days so there's much less complexity to deal with. Not like the past where the uninitiated would stare at the Central London tube map wondering where Chesham Fast is

Wimbleware is semi-known I guess, like Goblin. It could equally take a location name, like the Fulham/Putney line, or Kensington line, or similar...

 

[BrianW]

The Wimbledon-Edgware service should be identified separately, but the others are all pretty clear - off peak the Met is all stations too these days so there's much less complexity to deal with. Not like the past where the uninitiated would stare at the Central London tube map wondering where Chesham Fast is

Some related thoughts:

- Several tube lines have alternate destinations, eg Wimbledon/ Richmond/ Ealing Broadway/ Edgware Road; similarly Overground
- Some trains terminate 'short' eg Arnos Grove, maybe off-peak eg Rayners Lane
- How helpful are eg Eastbound, via Bank,
- Part of the Met became Hammersmith and City (and a different shade of colour)
- Are there suggestions of giving names to bus routes- does that tell us something?
- SR trains carried route numbers, visible at the front as a 'headcode' giving those in the know info re destination, route, where stopping ...

Is there evidence how well what works, eg navigating Kings Cross St Pancras International? What do those least familiar with 'the system' value most?

How clear are things at eg Clapham Junction, Stratford?