King & Queen to Durham (17/04): should such journeys be made by train?

[Skipness]

The king & queen travelled to Durham today for the Maundy service.

King and Queen attend Maundy ceremony in Durham

Maundy Money is given to 76 men and women chosen for their work in the community.

www.bbc.co.uk

King Charles and Queen Camilla have taken part in the annual Maundy service which sees the monarch gives out gifts in one of the oldest royal ceremonies.

At Durham Cathedral, specially-minted coins were handed out to 76 men and 76 women - the same number as the King's age - during a traditional Christian service to mark Maundy Thursday.

The event takes place annually on the final Thursday before Easter Sunday and commemorates the Last Supper and the importance of humility and service to others.

Did they travel by rail? (And if not, why not?)

 

[800001]

The king & queen travelled to Durham today for the maundy service. Did they travel by rail? (And if nit, why not?)

No not by rail.

Locos are under going repaint I believe.

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

How easy, or otherwise, would it be to path a loco-hauled Royal Train service along the ECML on a weekday?

I suspect it might be a little challenging! A slower routing via the WAML and the Joint Line through Lincolnshire might be more achievable, but not really fit for purpose. HM may be somewhat pro-rail, but not necessarily keen on personal railtours!

Unless the trip involved overnight "stabling" somewhere, in which case more possibilities open up. Given the cost of Royal Train operation, I doubt this journey was a priority for the rail option.

 

[800001]

How easy, or otherwise, would it be to path a loco-hauled Royal Train service along the ECML on a weekday? I suspect it might be a little challenging! A slower routing via the WAML and the Joint Line through Lincolnshire might be more achievable but not really fit for purpose. HM may be somewhat pro-rail but not necessarily keen on personal railtours! Unless the trip involved overnight "stabling" somewhere in which case more possibilities open up. Given the cost of Royal Train operation I doubt this journey was a priority for the rail option.

Most journeys like this (if it had happened) involve leaving London the previous night, stabling (usually at North Road station Darlington) then travelling to the area they visit on the morning.

The train normally then returns empty to Wolverton.

 

[H F Stephens]

The Royal party arrived by helicopter.

 

[Magdalia]

The king & queen travelled to Durham today for the maundy service. Did they travel by rail? (And if nit, why not?)

HM the King's health will have been a major factor in the travel arrangements.
.

 

[Somewhere]

How easy, or otherwise, would it be to path a loco-hauled Royal Train service along the ECML on a weekday?

Its a Bank Holiday today, not a weekday

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Its a Bank Holiday today, not a weekday

The Maundy service takes place on Maundy Thursday ie the day before Good Friday and a normal working day for very many. Indeed roads tend to be very busy that day.

 

[JordR]

usually at North Road station Darlington

Seriously? I'm Darlo born and wasn't aware of this, how often is the Royal Train parked up at North Road station?

Is it because it's a convenient place on a fairly quiet line not far off the ECML?

 

[Harpo]

The Maundy service takes place on Maundy Thursday ie the day before Good Friday and a normal working day for very many. Indeed roads tend to be very busy that day.

Maunday Thursday used to one of be the most demanding days of the year as a full freight programme ran as well as a heavy relief programme. As an old hand put it, on summer Saturdays you run out of carriages before you run out of engines: On Maunday Thursday you run out of engines before you run out of carriages.

Local legend had it that a planning error misplaced the stop board for the Queen’s Maunday money trip to Bristol on 1/4/99 and when it passed the red carpet and stopped hard with waiting dignataries chasing the train, she asked the train manager ‘What’s happening Mr …’ and cracked up when told. ‘April Fool’s day ma’am.’

 

[800001]

Seriously? I'm Darlo born and wasn't aware of this, how often is the Royal Train parked up at North Road station?

Is it because it's a convenient place on a fairly quiet line not far off the ECML?

Convenient, and can be secured by police.

 

[abr2024]

Most journeys like this (if it had happened) involve leaving London the previous night, stabling (usually at North Road station Darlington) then travelling to the area they visit on the morning.

The train normally then returns empty to Wolverton.

Expect a knock on the door for that one on the grounds of the monarchs security procedures being published

 

[Darandio]

Expect a knock on the door for that one on the grounds of the monarchs security procedures being published

Don't be so silly.

Seriously? I'm Darlo born and wasn't aware of this, how often is the Royal Train parked up at North Road station?

Is it because it's a convenient place on a fairly quiet line not far off the ECML?

Back in the 80's and early 90's it used to regularly overnight at on the Leamside Line behind the workshops at Tursdale. Always seemed most of Ferryhill knew about it!

 

[Sun Chariot]

Expect a knock on the door for that one on the grounds of the monarchs security procedures being published

Hate to break the news for you, but that theory will expand to everyone who stands by Buckingham Palace gates, when the flying flag shows Royals are in...

 

[DanNCL]

No not by rail.

Locos are under going repaint I believe.

Are non-Royal liveried 67s considered unacceptable by the Royals then?

How easy, or otherwise, would it be to path a loco-hauled Royal Train service along the ECML on a weekday? I suspect it might be a little challenging! A slower routing via the WAML and the Joint Line through Lincolnshire might be more achievable but not really fit for purpose. HM may be somewhat pro-rail but not necessarily keen on personal railtours! Unless the trip involved overnight "stabling" somewhere in which case more possibilities open up. Given the cost of Royal Train operation I doubt this journey was a priority for the rail option.

The Royal Train gets absolute priority over everything else so the usual pathing concerns for operation of loco hauled charters don’t apply, they’ll hold up the regular passenger services for it if they have to.

 

[43096]

Are non-Royal liveried 67s considered unacceptable by the Royals then?

You’d think Charles would like a different loco - might be a winner!

 

[Dr Hoo]

The Royal Train gets absolute priority over everything else so the usual pathing concerns for operation of loco hauled charters don’t apply, they’ll hold up the regular passenger services for it if they have to.

I used to think that (and have been on managerial duty in signalling centres to oversee it). However I was surprised to travel on the West Coast Main Line once and overtake The Special Train in running, in the Trent Valley, as Her Late Majesty trundled along the Down Slow.

 

[StoneRoad]

Back in the day [early 1980s], the now King & the Royal Train once spent the night on the back line at Newcastle Central.

I know that because I was taking a motorcycle on a journey to North Wales and had to get special permission [& used an unusual ID to do so] to enter the station at quarter to sparrow fart with it, and had to push it over the footbridge to get on my train. I could see the purple train carriages behind the wall. Special Branch were slightly bemused by my appearance with m/bike, possibly not ...

I used to think that (and have been on managerial duty in signalling centres to oversee it). However I was surprised to travel on the West Coast Main Line once and overtake The Special Train in running, in the Trent Valley, as Her Late Majesty trundled along the Down Slow.

most likely eating a meal ...

 

[D6130]

I used to think that (and have been on managerial duty in signalling centres to oversee it). However I was surprised to travel on the West Coast Main Line once and overtake The Special Train in running, in the Trent Valley, as Her Late Majesty trundled along the Down Slow.

Is that because the Royal Train is limited to 70 mph when conveying passengers?

 

[Sun Chariot]

You’d think Charles would like a different loco - might be a winner!

Pairs of class 40s were occasionally used for such duties, in the latter '70s and very early '80s. I've seen a photo of a pair of 25s used, too. During the 1980s, class 47 haulage was the more common option.
Of course, with no bars across windows on the Royal Train, it offered a chance for Royals to appreciate EE / Sulzer thrash.

 

[Royston Vasey]

Pairs of class 40s were occasionally used for such duties, in the latter 1970s and very early '80s. Of course, with no bars across windows on the Royal Train, it offered opportunities for Royals to fully appreciate the thrash...

He had D216 (40016) and D233 (40033) for his investiture as Prince of Wales at Caernarfon in 1969, arriving at a temporary station Griffiths Crossing. The huge FERODO signage on the factory behind the train was the best advert they ever had!

The royal train was ETH powered from 1977, so shouldn't have been hauled by 40s after this point!

 

[Sun Chariot]

He had D216 (40016) and D233 (40033) for his investiture as Prince of Wales at Caernarfon in 1969, arriving at a temporary station Griffiths Crossing. The huge FERODO signage on the factory behind the train was the best advert they ever had!

The royal train was ETH powered from 1977, so shouldn't have been hauled by 40s after this point!

I have long since disposed of the book I had, authored by Les Nixon, but I do recall two unnamed blue Whistlers - white tyre walls and gleaming red bufferbeams - in a photo dated (IIRC) 1980 or 1981.

 

[Royston Vasey]

I have long since disposed of the book I had, authored by Les Nixon, but I do recall two unnamed blue Whistlers - white tyre walls and gleaming red bufferbeams - in a photo dated (IIRC) 1980 or 1981.

Not mentioned on the admittedly incomplete record at https://www.derbysulzers.com/royaltrain.html but I was surprised how common double 25s were on Royal duties in the 60s and 70s, the most workaday mixed traffic locos you could imagine, white wheels or not!

 

[godfreycomplex]

Pairs of class 40s were occasionally used for such duties, in the latter '70s and very early '80s. I've seen a photo of a pair of 25s used, too. During the 1980s, class 47 haulage was the more common option.
Of course, with no bars across windows on the Royal Train, it offered a chance for Royals to appreciate EE / Sulzer thrash.

one’s lordzzzzzzzz *regally flails outside of open droplight*

 

[Magdalia]

He had D216 (40016) and D233 (40033) for his investiture as Prince of Wales at Caernarfon in 1969, arriving at a temporary station Griffiths Crossing. The huge FERODO signage on the factory behind the train was the best advert they ever had!

The royal train was ETH powered from 1977, so shouldn't have been hauled by 40s after this point!

The new Royal Train with ETH was introduced for HM Queen Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee in 1977. Non ETH locos on the royal Train were very rare after that, usually only on lines with route availability restrictions.

The then Prince of Wales only travelled on the outward journey to Caernarfon for the investiture in 1969. Afterwards he used the Royal Yacht Britannia for a tour of Wales, then returned by Royal Train from Cardiff to Slough.

The last class 40 hauled Royal Train I have is from Slough to Gourock in August 1976, the Royal Family travelling from Windsor Castle to join the Royal Yacht Britannia at Greenock. Lots of members of the Royal Family were on the train, but not the then Prince of Wales. However, the then Prince of Wales did have a Royal Train from Oxford to Penyffordd in December 1976, traction is not known for this and it could have been class 40s.

 

[Sun Chariot]

one’s lordzzzzzzzz *regally flails outside of open droplight*

"Look - a King on that train!"
"Naaah, it's a Castle class."

 

[35B]

Convenient, and can be secured by police.

An important factor. Security arrangements for Thursday’s service have taken months to implemented, and there were significant road closures. The cathedral and much of the Bailey were closed not just on Thursday, but also Wednesday.

The road access to Durham station is convoluted, and there aren’t good gaps in the service that lend themselves to clearing the station for security.

 

[Royston Vasey]

The new Royal Train with ETH was introduced for HM Queen Elizabeth II's Silver Jubilee in 1977. Non ETH locos on the royal Train were very rare after that, usually only on lines with route availability restrictions.

The beautiful LMS design 12 wheeled staff sleeper/generator van 2910 was reportedly retained post 1977 (source), so it's entirely possible.

 

[30907]

The Maundy service takes place on Maundy Thursday ie the day before Good Friday and a normal working day for very many. Indeed roads tend to be very busy that day.

11 years ago the Queen arrived at Blackburn by train - but Blackburn is rather easier to manage operationally than Durham
Someone will no doubt know when she previously distributed the Royal Maundy at Durham and how she arrived.

 

[Mag_seven]

I'm quite sure all options are considered when and when not to use the Royal Train. On this occasion they obviously decided not to much to the disappointment of rail enthusiasts.