Judith Russell
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Has anyone got any memories of Kings Cross at this time? Does anyone know how much it cost to travel from Bradford Yorkshire to London Kings Cross in 1965?
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Kings Cross in 1965
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mike57
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I started traveling through Kings Cross to Harrogate around this time with my Mother, visiting relatives in Yorkshire during the school summer holidays, we lived in south London at this time. Unfortunately cameras were packed in our suitcases so no pictures, although I think I came across 1 picture taken some years later maybe early 70's. I did this journey several times a year for some years as a child/young teenager. We used to travel on the Harrogate Pullman leaving Kings X at about 11 and arriving Harrogate around 3. Diesel hauled, and first stop Wakefield Westgate. Lunch served and eaten, food was up to the standard of my Grandmas cooking, which was my benchmark at this time (My mother was good at a lot of things, and encouraged my interest in engineering, as she had worked during the war in a factory inspecting precision parts and I think she had enjoyed the work, but she would have not won any prizes in a chefs competition!). Obviously memories are a bit hazy now, it was 55 years ago. Kings Cross itself I remember as quite drab station compared with Victoria which was the one I was familar with at the time. Also the glacial accelaration on leaving Kings X, dont remember what type of locomotive hauled us. Eventually once out of London a good speed would be acheived, but it would take a while. As for cost I really dont remember.
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The timetableworld website has the North Eastern Region public timetable for 1964 which you can find from here:
https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer?token=66d160cc-d943-40f6-be38-842d1602845c
This gives you train times from Bradford Exchange (and from Forster Square to St Pancras).
There is a fares list which gives the second class single as £2 8s 3d, first class 50% more, returns twice as much. There may at times have been cheap return fares too.
Kings Cross was entirely worked by diesel locos and a few multiple units (railcars); they would almost entirely have been green, with the coaches maroon.
Most suburban trains didn't use the main station, but went to York Road platform on the east side right by the tunnel then down a rabbit-hole to Moorgate; they returned via a steeply graded wooden platform on the west side. There was also an engine servicing yard on that side, so the end of platform 8 was where the spotters gathered!
Long distance trains were always worked out empty to carriage sidings after they arrived, and returned a few hours later for their next trip.
https://timetableworld.com/ttw-viewer?token=66d160cc-d943-40f6-be38-842d1602845c
This gives you train times from Bradford Exchange (and from Forster Square to St Pancras).
There is a fares list which gives the second class single as £2 8s 3d, first class 50% more, returns twice as much. There may at times have been cheap return fares too.
Kings Cross was entirely worked by diesel locos and a few multiple units (railcars); they would almost entirely have been green, with the coaches maroon.
Most suburban trains didn't use the main station, but went to York Road platform on the east side right by the tunnel then down a rabbit-hole to Moorgate; they returned via a steeply graded wooden platform on the west side. There was also an engine servicing yard on that side, so the end of platform 8 was where the spotters gathered!
Long distance trains were always worked out empty to carriage sidings after they arrived, and returned a few hours later for their next trip.
I don't think this is quite right at all. Most suburban trains arrived and departed from the suburban platforms by the west side of the main station (still in existence today). At peak periods many did as you say go to Moorgate, but over a day far more used the suburban platforms.
StephenHunter
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The Deltics were very much present by then, of course, but you had other locos too. 31s and 40s in modern parlance?
Too young to remember it myself mind.
Too young to remember it myself mind.
I remember visiting just a couple of times then. I think it must have been 1965 when I saw one last steam loco there - and it was an A4! Other than that all diesel.
Diesels had limited fuel tanks then, and arrivals from Edinburgh/Newcastle, at least, on short turnround, would visit the fuelling point on the west side. Because of the very limited space between the platform ends and the tunnel mouth this required, especially from the east side, a W-shaped double shunt, in and out of tunnel mouths to get across, and then the same to get back to a departing train. Added to this, the stud of Class 31s on ecs trains, once their stock had departed, needed to do the same double in-out-in-out shunt to get over to an arrival needing to go back to Bounds Green. Although frequency was not what it is now this constant movement really tied up the throughput.
Because of staff walking across the tracks to and fro, and the very limited warning time between a train emerging from the tunnels and heading any way to a platform, a strident electric bell attached to the signalbox in the middle of the layout was rung for each such movement. Must have been an ER/LNER thing because it was the same as the one rung on the Electric Line approach to Liverpool Street, against the tight high wall there.
Given the full length trains at other London termini, and indeed on main line trains here, suburban services running to nothing more than a 2-car Cravens multiple unit seemed bizarre. But then I believe much of the Northern suburbs traffic had deserted for the Piccadilly Line.
Diesels had limited fuel tanks then, and arrivals from Edinburgh/Newcastle, at least, on short turnround, would visit the fuelling point on the west side. Because of the very limited space between the platform ends and the tunnel mouth this required, especially from the east side, a W-shaped double shunt, in and out of tunnel mouths to get across, and then the same to get back to a departing train. Added to this, the stud of Class 31s on ecs trains, once their stock had departed, needed to do the same double in-out-in-out shunt to get over to an arrival needing to go back to Bounds Green. Although frequency was not what it is now this constant movement really tied up the throughput.
Because of staff walking across the tracks to and fro, and the very limited warning time between a train emerging from the tunnels and heading any way to a platform, a strident electric bell attached to the signalbox in the middle of the layout was rung for each such movement. Must have been an ER/LNER thing because it was the same as the one rung on the Electric Line approach to Liverpool Street, against the tight high wall there.
Given the full length trains at other London termini, and indeed on main line trains here, suburban services running to nothing more than a 2-car Cravens multiple unit seemed bizarre. But then I believe much of the Northern suburbs traffic had deserted for the Piccadilly Line.
Mcr Warrior
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Anyone got the 1965 fares info requested by the OP? 
Bevan Price
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I lived near Harringay West station, and often went into / via Kings Cross between 1963 & 1965.
Long distance passenger services mostly worked by Classes 47 & 55, but Classes 40, 45 & 46 also appeared
Cambridge services often Class 30/31, but other classes were sometimes used, and a handful of Cambridge services were dmus.
Suburban services were mostly Cravens dmus (2 car, or multiples thereof.), but some loco-hauled non-corridor stock used at peak hours - which then included Saturday mornings - usually worked by Class 30/31. **
Some of these ran to/from Moorgate, via York Road platform on the way into Moorgate, but returned via one of the suburban platforms.
Baby Deltics (Class 23) appeared also, but were not very reliable, and I did not see them very often.
The outermost platforms of the main station had no ticket barriers, and were often used to watch trains by enthusiasts.
** - Conversion of Class 30 into Class 31 started sometime around 1964.
5½ day working weeks had once been common, but was much reduced by the 1960s.
Regular steam working at Kings Cross ceased from the start of the Summer 1963 timetable, but occasional steam substitutes for failed diesels continued for another year or two, and there were a few steam-hauled railtours.
Long distance passenger services mostly worked by Classes 47 & 55, but Classes 40, 45 & 46 also appeared
Cambridge services often Class 30/31, but other classes were sometimes used, and a handful of Cambridge services were dmus.
Suburban services were mostly Cravens dmus (2 car, or multiples thereof.), but some loco-hauled non-corridor stock used at peak hours - which then included Saturday mornings - usually worked by Class 30/31. **
Some of these ran to/from Moorgate, via York Road platform on the way into Moorgate, but returned via one of the suburban platforms.
Baby Deltics (Class 23) appeared also, but were not very reliable, and I did not see them very often.
The outermost platforms of the main station had no ticket barriers, and were often used to watch trains by enthusiasts.
** - Conversion of Class 30 into Class 31 started sometime around 1964.
5½ day working weeks had once been common, but was much reduced by the 1960s.
Regular steam working at Kings Cross ceased from the start of the Summer 1963 timetable, but occasional steam substitutes for failed diesels continued for another year or two, and there were a few steam-hauled railtours.
Yes, I should have checked a timetable, I only remembered the "outer" suburbans using the suburban station in the peak, but there were "inners" too. Plus of course everything off peak
See post #3 (ok 1964)Anyone got the 1965 fares info requested by the OP?
And 47s of course by then, possibly some of the other Type 2 classes.
Question to the OP - which bits of info so far are most what you are looking for? We can get absorbed with detail here
Mcr Warrior
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Anyone got the 1965 fares info requested by the OP?
Thanks!
Wonder how that compares with 2021 fares when adjusted for inflation?
2021 equivalent would be a bit below £50, so a bit below the full current Super Offpeak, a bit above the Railcard one, and significantly above Advances.
My uncle was a 'top link' driver out of York, so often into and out of KX. He loved the Deltics when they came in- warm, comfortable, none of that wind and rain. I recall the A4 'streaks', terrific wheelspin leaving the platform (8?) uphill, from which one had a good view of all tracks in/ out of the tunnels and including the York Road platform/ station and the suburban lines coming up/ to the west with their Brush Type 2 D55xx's as they were before becoming Class 31s. The Deltics- in two tone green- could be seen into and out of the refuelling stage/ shed while the A4s (and other steamers) would disappear up to 'Top Shed' 36A- accessible across the canal. Terrific Deltic roar and blast of fumes when starting up. Don't know just when steam stopped in KX, or the last Fish Train (platform 1?)
Happy multi-sensory memories. Thank you for opportunity and encouragement to reminisce!
ps No recollection of fares- never paid, even for a platform ticket- rarely went to York except by United Coach overnight from Victoria Coach Station!
However- my ABC for March 1965 (8s 6d) shows Bradford Exchange Station from KX 2nd class 52/6, 1st class 78/6. Another route Forster Square station from St Pancras- same fares.
(York then 51/3 (77/-); recently, 'LNER Train ticket sales start, York to London for £10, Edinburgh to London for £20 - for travel between 6 September and 15 October 2021- Unfortunately, this deal is no longer available!
WesternLancer
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Might be helpful if you posted your reason for the question - ie is this for a novel or story for example? Others have posted such q's for that reason in the past and it has elicited very helpful details for the author's requirements.
Of course fully understand if it's just to check the fare you paid for a trip a while back
It's also possible that people on here may be able to direct you to old film taken around the station at that time and uploaded to places like youtube - which would give you a feel for it, if not personal memories. And there will be plenty of still images of course (probaly need more people in them to give a sense of the place at the time!)
eg
'Class 37' diesel D6802 at Kings Cross 1965
Did some research on this loco and it was later renumbered 37712 and was still running during the 2000s hauling freight trains. It apparently still survives but is currently out of use and stored away.
www.flickr.com
Kings Cross railway station in 1965
This photo shows the suburban section of Kings Cross station on a Sunday afternoon in 1965. The place is almost deserted; trolleys and barrows and left on the platform, there is litter strewn all over the place, used mugs are discarded anywhere — British Railways must have been at a low ebb...
www.flickr.com
D5662/D5070, Kings Cross, April 1965
London Kings Cross station with Brush Type 2 No. D5662 parked in a siding while BR Sulzer Type 2 No. D5070 leaves with a parcels train. 14th April 1965 04'05
www.flickr.com
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randyrippley
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30s not 31
There was a turntable at the fuelling point where arriving steam locos could be turned. If they had worked in from say Peterborough or Grantham and didn’t need to take on coal, they were serviced there before their return journey, rather than at Top Shed.
The last official steam departure from Kings Cross was the 22:45 to Leeds on Sunday 16 June 1963 hauled by A1 60158. As mentioned up thread, steam substitutes for failed diesels occurred on occasions up until the end of 1964. This practice ceased with the closure of New England shed at Peterborough on 2 January 1965. The last steam locomotive seen in the vicinity of the station, seems to have been B1 61070 on New Years Day 1965, observed at Finsbury Park.
Bevan Price
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The Eastern Region retained a few withdrawn Class B1s for a year or two, for use as steam-heating boilers in carriage sidings. I cannot recall which locations without searching through old magazines.
Clarence Yard
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Not at KX. The KX Division had one departmental B1 in 1965 at Peterborough, for use at New England loco. That went for scrap in 1966.
In the 1963/4 & 1964/5 winters (the latter only up to the date New England closed for steam) two or three 34E B1’s were sent down to Hornsey shed for steam heating duties. I believe they periodically got swapped over. The Divisional instruction was that the loco numbers were not to appear on any driver’s sheets, lest the BRB (or ER HQ) found out.
In the 1963/4 & 1964/5 winters (the latter only up to the date New England closed for steam) two or three 34E B1’s were sent down to Hornsey shed for steam heating duties. I believe they periodically got swapped over. The Divisional instruction was that the loco numbers were not to appear on any driver’s sheets, lest the BRB (or ER HQ) found out.
Kings Cross 'Passenger Loco' as it was called had a small coaling plant for quick turn rounds. I guess at some point the coal hoist may have been removed as the facility was converted for diesel use. The 70 ft turntable had been renewed in 1959 using the deck from Melton Constable's turntable on the recently closed M&GN. The turntable had originated at Grantham where it had been installed in the 1920s for the new pacifics. The pit there started suffering some serious subsidence issues however and was eventually abandoned in the early 1950s. A new 'cross-legged triangle' was installed in its place for loco-turning.
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