Kings Cross - Nottingham via Grantham

[greyman42]

Would it be viable for VTEC or an open access operator to run services from Kings Cross to Nottingham via Grantham. Would the powers that be allow it and are the paths there. How would journey times compare with EMT.

 

[YorkshireBear]

ECML already full serving other destinations, I think Nottingham with MML links is low down the list.

 

[ainsworth74]

How would journey times compare with EMT.

Assuming that there are some calls south of Grantham then by using VTEC running times to Grantham and adding the running time of EMT services that do Grantham to Nottingham non-stop I come out with a rough timing of Kings Cross to Nottingham via Grantham of 1hr 40m (ish). Which is faster than via the MML to the tune of 10 to 20 minutes.

However, the honourable member for YorkshireBears above makes a very good and probably killer point that the ECML is bursting at the seems now and is likely to get even worse over the next few years what with various extra services expected to be introduced (though admittedly with the changes to the InterCity East Coast franchise who knows how many of them will happen let alone when).

It would probably be a faster journey for Nottingham to have a Kings Cross link but there simply isn't the capacity to do it. The demands on the ECML will always trend towards the long distance market of Yorkshire, the North East and Scotland.

 

[xotGD]

Divert the Newark terminators to Nottingham?

 

[swt_passenger]

Divert the Newark terminators to Nottingham?

Are they not already extending to York or Lincoln under the current published plan?

 

[nottsnurse]

I regularly travel from Nottingham to London, changing at Grantham, because I often find its cheaper.

Although it's unlikely to happen (due to aforementioned capacity issues with on the ECML) a direct alternative to the St Pancras service would be welcome, if only to provide competition to EMT's monopoly.

 

[ainsworth74]

Divert the Newark terminators to Nottingham?

They won't be Newark terminators for very much longer (depending on what happens with the timetable recast now that VTEC is finishing in 2020). For one thing I believe a number of them are going to end up going to Lincoln (as they were originally planned).

 

[class26]

Would it be viable for VTEC or an open access operator to run services from Kings Cross to Nottingham via Grantham. Would the powers that be allow it and are the paths there. How would journey times compare with EMT.

Also the question with what ?

 

[edwin_m]

I posted yesterday that the fastest London-Grantham non-stop was around 1hr 6min. Grantham to Nottingham is 22 miles, with severe restrictions on the approaches to Grantham and between Radcliffe and Nottingham, so I have assumed 60mph average speed. Thus the journey time with the one intermediate stop would be about 1hr 30min.

The hourly off-peak service via Leicester is about 1hr 40min with HST timings and three stops, but under a similarly optimistic assumption of one stop and Meridian timings would be down to 1hr 31min as achieved by the 0755 from Nottingham. The benefit of the Market Harborough remodelling would match the Kings Cross time. The fast Nottingham service also serves Leicester so would have to continue to run for at least two thirds of its journey even if Nottingham was served only from Kings Cross, and along with the busyness of the ECML that means there is no reason to run the franchised Nottingham trains via the ECML. No open access operator would be allowed to run this service because they wouldn't cater for any significant new passenger flows so would be classifed as abstractive.

 

[AndyHA]

When I first used to go to Kings Cross train spotting in the late 1950s , early 1960s . Sheffield was a destination served by trains from KX .

 

[B&I]

If demand exists for this, along with suitable stock, would portion-working with the Lincolns be possible?

 

[brompton rail]

How would KX Newark Nottingham actually get to Nottingham. The only way is to cross the ECML at Newark to platform 3, then draw forward on the Lincoln line, stop, reverse and then cross ECML again to pass through Newark Castle to reach Nottingham. Two crossings of the already full ECML. Incidentally even routed via Grantham up trains have to cross ECML,

 

[gazthomas]

I regularly travel from Nottingham to London, changing at Grantham, because I often find its cheaper.

Although it's unlikely to happen (due to aforementioned capacity issues with on the ECML) a direct alternative to the St Pancras service would be welcome, if only to provide competition to EMT's monopoly.

It’s win, win, win for Stagecoach who have a pretty monopoly on the WCML, MML and ECML already

 

[Starmill]

Regardless of track capacity it would be pretty pointless. There are already a large number of fast, direct trains from Nottingham to London it would never pass the ORR's tests.

 

[Kettledrum]

How would KX Newark Nottingham actually get to Nottingham. The only way is to cross the ECML at Newark to platform 3, then draw forward on the Lincoln line, stop, reverse and then cross ECML again to pass through Newark Castle to reach Nottingham. Two crossings of the already full ECML. Incidentally even routed via Grantham up trains have to cross ECML,

No - Going via Newark to get to Nottingham would be pointless. I assumed two units would run together from Kings Cross to Grantham, where the service would split, and one portion going to Nottingham, and one to Newark. - or some other destination (like Hull)
If paths were available, The Nottingham portion could extend to Mansfield, thereby introducing direct trains to London for Mansfield and also Lowdham

 

[robbeech]

Splitting and joining 2 units at Grantham to send one to Newark and one to Nottingham would be a horrific faff, specifically joining.
It'd have to be done on P4 which is ok as it frees up the up and down main for other traffic.
Splitting would involve one waiting for a path in disruption to get back onto the down main holding the Nottingham portion up if that was at the back. Joining would involve crossing over the ECML from the up main to get over the P4 before the Nottingham portion could get in behind. Any delays here letting a late running Nottingham portion in first would stop the whole ECML up main. Permissive working on P4 whilst allowed would mean speed restrictions on getting the second unit in and the crossover is fairly close (is P4 long enough anyway?)