Kings Cross Top Shed

[grumpyxch]

A couple of things about Top Shed:-

1.Back in 1963, after steam had been banned south of Grantham(?) some steam still got to Kings Cross Station (needs must,etc). Was Top Shed in a suitable state to service them, or did the locos get sent elsewhere before heading back north?

2. When they demolished the Top Shed coaling tower, my memory was of them getting the military in to blow it up. Is my memory correct? Does anyone know the date of the demolition? My unreliable memory of the demolition of a similar coaling tower at March Shed was they brought in civilian contractors for that job, the contractors used normal, non-explosive, civvy demolition methods, such as ball-and-chain, pneumatic drills, and then hydraulic jacks, but only ended up with the tower leaning over, not down. They then had to use explosives to finish the job anyway.

Any answers gratefully received

 

[Merle Haggard]

snip/

My unreliable memory of the demolition of a similar coaling tower at March Shed was they brought in civilian contractors for that job, the contractors used normal, non-explosive, civvy demolition methods, such as ball-and-chain, pneumatic drills, and then hydraulic jacks, but only ended up with the tower leaning over, not down. They then had to use explosives to finish the job anyway.

Any answers gratefully received

A group filmed the demolition of Cambridge coaling tower and recently showed it at a local R.C.T.S. meeting. It was a reverse of March; demolition 'experts' packed explosives, everyone kept at a distance for the explosion then - disappointment (or amusement!) The legs sere blown away after which the body of the coaler gently subsided to the ground, leaning over at a slight angle - but still an undisturbed solid mass of re-inforced concrete...

 

[Harvester]

A couple of things about Top Shed:-

1.Back in 1963, after steam had been banned south of Grantham(?) some steam still got to Kings Cross Station (needs must,etc). Was Top Shed in a suitable state to service them, or did the locos get sent elsewhere before heading back north?

2. When they demolished the Top Shed coaling tower, my memory was of them getting the military in to blow it up. Is my memory correct? Does anyone know the date of the demolition?

At the start of the summer timetable in June 1963, steam was banned south of Hitchin (not Grantham) on the ECML. However steam substitutes for failed diesels regularly arrived at Kings Cross until the end of 1964, ending after New England shed (Peterborough) closed to to steam. These steam locos were usually turned and serviced at Kings Cross ’Passenger Loco’ situated on the west side of the station, between the north end of the suburban platforms and Gasworks Tunnel.

According to Peter Townend‘s ‘Top Shed’ the coaling tower was demolished in 1964 but the exact date is not given.

 

[Magdalia]

1.Back in 1963, after steam had been banned south of Grantham(?) some steam still got to Kings Cross Station (needs must,etc). Was Top Shed in a suitable state to service them, or did the locos get sent elsewhere before heading back north?

The relevant quotation from David Percival's Kings Cross Lineside 1958-84 is:

Steam workings declined after coal, water and oil supplies to Top Shed were discontinued and the depot was physically isolated on 13 January 1964.

 

[Ashley Hill]

@MarkyT might be able to give some insight into this.

 

[MarkyT]

@MarkyT might be able to give some insight into this.

Dad always said that once the last loco allocations were moved away, management was determined to remove Top Shed's facilities as fast as possible so they couldn't be used any longer for steam. The passenger loco servicing point near the station, known by some as 'Bottom Shed', remained steam-capable after that and was adapted for diesel use. Not sure when the turntable there was removed. I think it survived beyond the end of steam for a few years.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The site of Top Shed was earmarked for a freightliner terminal from quite early on and following the demolition and clearance, the liner terminal was built. The first cranes used there were built in 1966. So I think it was a case of getting on with it in 1964.

I have a copy of the 1963 local closure arrangements meeting minutes somewhere, PNT chaired the meeting and the unmanned shed area was left functional for visiting engines, to use up supplies.

Visiting engines to the area also used Hornsey, which was still able to deal with steam, especially if they weren’t being returned straight away. The unofficial (but officially sanctioned) use of active 34E B1 locos for carriage heating during the 1963/4 and 1964/5 winters was done via Hornsey. In the 1963/4 winter 3 x B1 were stationed at Hornsey with the express instruction that no loco numbers should ever appear on drivers dockets! However, this caused a bit of an argument as the locos had to go back to 34E for washouts every 14 days!

In winter 1964/5 I don’t know how many were used but any had to be returned to 34E at year end, just before closure to steam at 34E and it was on one of these returns (a truck train to Peterborough) that Hitchin Driver Dave Impey took one back, playing a trick to ensure he wasn’t relieved at Hitchin on the way north, blasting off on the down fast through Hitchin towards Peterborough in true GN style (regulator through the roof) whilst “whipping” the cab side, like a jockey would a racehorse. He was a bit of a character.

Hornsey serviced the last A4 out of the Cross in 1964 and was used for preparing many a Flying Scotsman trip until 1968. I have been told that 4472 was the last steam loco to use the Hornsey table. The last steam loco that was turned on the Hitchin table was 7029 Clun Castle in 1967.

One bit of Top Shed remained in use until the early 1980’s and that was the small water softening plant, which sat right on the main yard roadway, opposite the liner crane “stops”. Latterly the KXFT C&W portacabins were situated just in front of it.

 

[Magdalia]

The unofficial (but officially sanctioned) use of active 34E B1 locos for carriage heating during the 1963/4 and 1964/5 winters was done via Hornsey. In the 1963/4 winter 3 x B1 were stationed at Hornsey with the express instruction that no loco numbers should ever appear on drivers dockets! However, this caused a bit of an argument as the locos had to go back to 34E for washouts every 14 days!

This is straying off topic a bit, but why did the GN not do like the GE, which had B1s in departmental service for official carriage heating during those 2 winters (and most of 1965/66 too)?

 

[Clarence Yard]

Because they had static steam boilers fitted at Hornsey and Holloway (and KX Stn) in 1963.

 

[Merle Haggard]

The site of Top Shed was earmarked for a freightliner terminal from quite early on and following the demolition and clearance, the liner terminal was built. The first cranes used there were built in 1966. So I think it was a case of getting on with it in 1964.

I have a copy of the 1963 local closure arrangements meeting minutes somewhere, PNT chaired the meeting and the unmanned shed area was left functional for visiting engines, to use up supplies.

Visiting engines to the area also used Hornsey, which was still able to deal with steam, especially if they weren’t being returned straight away. The unofficial (but officially sanctioned) use of active 34E B1 locos for carriage heating during the 1963/4 and 1964/5 winters was done via Hornsey. In the 1963/4 winter 3 x B1 were stationed at Hornsey with the express instruction that no loco numbers should ever appear on drivers dockets! However, this caused a bit of an argument as the locos had to go back to 34E for washouts every 14 days!

In winter 1964/5 I don’t know how many were used but any had to be returned to 34E at year end, just before closure to steam at 34E and it was on one of these returns (a truck train to Peterborough) that Hitchin Driver Dave Impey took one back, playing a trick to ensure he wasn’t relieved at Hitchin on the way north, blasting off on the down fast through Hitchin towards Peterborough in true GN style (regulator through the roof) whilst “whipping” the cab side, like a jockey would a racehorse. He was a bit of a character.

Hornsey serviced the last A4 out of the Cross in 1964 and was used for preparing many a Flying Scotsman trip until 1968. I have been told that 4472 was the last steam loco to use the Hornsey table. The last steam loco that was turned on the Hitchin table was 7029 Clun Castle in 1967.

One bit of Top Shed remained in use until the early 1980’s and that was the small water softening plant, which sat right on the main yard roadway, opposite the liner crane “stops”. Latterly the KXFT C&W portacabins were situated just in front of it.

My bold.
Presumably this was something different from the B1s with departmental numbers - or was it the reason they were renumbered, to avoid these problems.?
From what I remember, the steam heat departmental B1s had something done to prevent them from working trains - ???removing the draw hooks???. Stationery Boilers on the L.M. were very stationary! (e.g. the ex L&Y 0-4-4Ts that had been withdrawn before the grouping).

 

[MarkyT]

The site of Top Shed was earmarked for a freightliner terminal from quite early on and following the demolition and clearance, the liner terminal was built. The first cranes used there were built in 1966. So I think it was a case of getting on with it in 1964.

I have a copy of the 1963 local closure arrangements meeting minutes somewhere, PNT chaired the meeting and the unmanned shed area was left functional for visiting engines, to use up supplies.

So operating as serviced sidings, a kind of overflow for the passenger loco facility, for around a year after closure? Before construction of the freight terminal forced removal of what remained? I'd guess the irregular steam arrivals gradually diminished as the diesel fleets strengthened in number and availability, so less space was needed to service them.

 

[grumpyxch]

Well thanks very much to everyone. That answered everything I wanted to know.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I think Top Shed was left wholly intact until disconnection. What a visiting loco would have needed was just turning, coal, water and lub oil. So the coaling side would have been in demand but I don’t know whether they could still use the back pits for water or had to seek it from a water crane in front of the shed, which would have been nearer.

Post June 1963, I don’t suppose many locos would have used it in any 24 hour period because Hornsey was still available for any freight workings to or from Ferme Park Up or Down. As the delivery of Brush 4’s continued during the latter part of 1963, the amount of steam workings into the London area would have further decreased.

 

[Harvester]

As the delivery of Brush 4’s continued during the latter part of 1963, the amount of steam workings into the London area would have further decreased.

There were still significant steam workings during December 1963. The RO mentions three principal steam hauled trains arriving in Kings Cross on 9th December. York A1 60138 (up Aberdonian), while New England A3s 60106 and 60063 arrived on the up Flying Scotsman and Northumbrian respectively.
On Christmas Eve A1 60157 (36A) ran up light from Hitchin to work the 6:12 pm KX to York and A3 60045 (the Darlington pilot) arrived on a relief from Newcastle and returned north light. Eleven workings were recorded in the London area on 18th December mainly Pacifics and 9Fs.

 

[grumpyxch]

Post June 1963, I don’t suppose many locos would have used it in any 24 hour period because Hornsey was still available for any freight workings to or from Ferme Park Up or Down.

I'm puzzled. If freight still used steam, what was the point of the steam ban?

 

[Spamcan81]

While we are talking about Top Shed, I heard the very sad news that former shed master Peter Townend passed away the other day.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The idea was to eliminate steam working south of Hitchin in its entirety, although it didn’t quite work like that. But steam working was largely eliminated, with only a small fraction of pre June 16th steam activity now remaining. Some days would see hardly anything, if at all.

I have now found the minutes of the closure meeting held in Room 121 at G.N.House on Monday 27th May 1963, chaired by P.N.Townend. The section “Dealing with Steam Locomotives after Closure of Depot” states the following;

“Although it is not anticipated that any steam locomotive will be diagrammed south of Hitchin after 15th June, it is probable that odd locomotives may arrive at King’s Cross and require to be dealt with. No staff are to remain at King’s Cross Top Shed. The Coaling Plant should be left half-full of coal and as the Water Softening Plant will still be manned the Attendant will be required to assist at the Coal Hopper if necessary. Should any fitting work be essential, the Depot Master, Finsbury Park must supply the staff. Footplate staff should deal with the actual turn round duties on any steam locomotive. No firedroppers or any other shed staff will be available. Control will be responsible for making arrangements to get any steam locomotives back to New England as quickly as possible.”

In the “Transfer of Stores” section the following paragraph refers to lub oil;

“…..a small quantity to be kept to cover odd steam arrivals. It is suggested this supply should be kept in a barrel in the Water Softening Plant and issued by the Attendant.”

 

[MarkyT]

While we are talking about Top Shed, I heard the very sad news that former shed master Peter Townend passed away the other day.

Peter Townend, my father, passed away in the early hours of 18th October, aged 98. He survived mum by 17 days. He will be greatly missed by family and many friends and former colleagues in the railway industry and the preservation movement. One of the last great men of steam, he was trained by the LNER as a premium apprentice at Doncaster Plant works and after a spell as a draughtsman in the locomotive drawing office, he moved into the motive power department where he was first employed on special projects as a 'progressman' while also providing short term relief cover as required for shedmasters and supervisors at various depots in East Anglia and on the Great Northern. In the mid-1950s he was successful in applying for the shedmaster vacancy at Kings Cross which was specially re-graded to be a management position due to the sheer size of the establishment there. He served in that position until the early 1960s when the majority of the allocated fleet was scrapped or dispersed and a lower-graded 'caretaker' was appointed to oversee final rundown and closure. Latterly he became the Kings Cross Divisional Traction and Rolling Stock Engineer, Responsible for diesel fleets and depots including the Deltics at Finsbury Park. He took early retirement in 1984 and moved from Letchworth, the family home, to Torquay in Devon where he and his wife Daphne enjoyed a long and happy retirement. Rest in Peace, Dad.

 

[Clarence Yard]

I worked in the Technical Office (Room 208) at G.N.House between 1978 and 1980, dealing with shopping and availability. One of my first jobs of the day was to make sure the stop and casualty sheets were on his desk in Room 117 well before he got in! My last siting of him at Finsbury Park was on it’s last day in 1983, as he wistfully paid a last visit and walked around the shed, which I, as STO that day, was engaged in shutting down. I wondered if he had done that on the last day at Top Shed, 20 years earlier.

PNT, as we knew him, was old school. He was “Guvnor”, never Pete, unlike the Divisional Carriage and Wagon Engineer, Pat Sumner (another ex steam man, from Millhouses shed, where he was a fitter/turner) who was always Pat!

PNT had a keen eye and a simple but effective approach to maintenance. Your shed should have well trained staff who did their work right first time, including the repairs arisings. They should be allowed the time to do their work. You should learn from the casualties, your mistakes and the mistakes of others and seek to modify and improve the kit.

His work on improving maintenance on diesels is less well known than steam but the success of Finsbury Park was in no small part to what he put in place and supported and, indeed, sometimes cajoled Doncaster and then York RM&EE to do. Although the apprentices didn’t like their traipse over to G.N.House to have their periodic review with him, he wanted the best to be working at his depots.

I have two memories that I really want to share. As a lowly CO2, not yet 21, I once had the temerity to suggest to him, when I presented the exam programme to him to sign off, that he might like to give an extra day for the C exam on 47410 because it was having electrical problems and the C exam was the electrically heavy exam. He looked at his assistant, Bob Fitzhugh, and Bob said, I agree. Before I had got back upstairs to my desk, he rang my boss to make sure I got some praise from him too.

The second is only from a few years ago. I have quite a few files from G.N.House, acquired after closure of the office. There was a query on LNER forum from someone writing an article for the Gresley Society on the run down of the ER A3 fleet and he wanted clarification on why certain locos were withdrawn. I gave him the answer and in the credits for the article my name is mentioned on the same line as that of PNT. I was well pleased but if I had made a rubbish or hurried conclusion, I wouldn’t have liked to upset my old Guvnor, even then!

Mark, my deepest condolences in your loss and so soon after your mum too. But your father had a profound effect on how the KX locomotives were maintained for a quarter of a century, as well as contributing greatly to the way the traction on the ECML performed during that time. For me, he stands with K.J.Cook as an engineer who made a lasting difference and also who encouraged M&EE people to both seek the best, as well as to be the best.

 

[grumpyxch]

At the start of the summer timetable in June 1963, steam was banned south of Hitchin (not Grantham) on the ECML. However steam substitutes for failed diesels regularly arrived at Kings Cross until the end of 1964, ending after New England shed (Peterborough) closed to to steam. These steam locos were usually turned and serviced at Kings Cross ’Passenger Loco’ situated on the west side of the station, between the north end of the suburban platforms and Gasworks Tunnel.

According to Peter Townend‘s ‘Top Shed’ the coaling tower was demolished in 1964 but the exact date is not given.

Hello Harvester. I would like to get hold of a copy of 'Top Shed' assuming I can find one. Is that the actual title, or is there more to it? A book seller that is not a railway expert may not recognise the name Peter Townend. Does it have what I think they call an ISDN Number?

My condolences also to Mr Townend's family. There are not many modern day railwaymen as well known as Peter Townend. I never worked for him, so I wont take the liberty of referring to him as 'Govnor'.

 

[Clarence Yard]

The ISBN for the second edition is 9780711018273. It is called “Top Shed: A Pictorial History of Kings Cross Locomotive Depot”

The ISBN for the first edition is 9780711006485.

 

[Harvester]

Hello Harvester. I would like to get hold of a copy of 'Top Shed' assuming I can find one. Is that the actual title, or is there more to it? A book seller that is not a railway expert may not recognise the name Peter Townend. Does it have what I think they call an ISDN Number?

My condolences also to Mr Townend's family. There are not many modern day railwaymen as well known as Peter Townend. I never worked for him, so I wont take the liberty of referring to him as 'Govnor'.

Some second hand copies of ‘Top Shed’ are available from Amazon, in the price range £12-£16 including delivery. Also available on eBay at a cheaper price, but you may not get a worthwhile guarantee!

My condolences too, to Peter Townend’s family and friends.

 

[grumpyxch]

Some second hand copies of ‘Top Shed’ are available from Amazon, in the price range £12-£16 including delivery. Also available on eBay at a cheaper price, but you may not get a worthwhile guarantee!

My condolences too, to Peter Townend’s family and friends.

My thanks to both Clarence and Harvester. Have had some success already. A copy (dont know which issue) should be here next week

 

[MarkyT]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

I worked in the Technical Office (Room 208) at G.N.House...

Great stories! When Terry Miller was CME at the BRB, Dad was his back-channel contact for the KX Division, bypassing ER management. Dad used to receive calls from him and pass on real up-to-date information on the fleet during the troublesome introduction of the 47s for example.

You must remember Ada Turp (spelling?), the office admin/secretary. During school hols, Dad sometimes took my sister and I up to London and into the office. Ada would look after us while dad was busy, proferring snacks and drinks from her secret treats drawer in the filing cabinet and even letting me operate the copying machine on occasions. She typed up dad's first manuscript for Top Shed (possibly the only one who could read his writing!).

 

[Clarence Yard]

I remember Ada! She also typed up a large part (if not all) of East Coast Pacifics at work, iirc. If she was in, there was only one route to Room 117 - through her! The door to the secretary’s office was right opposite 117 and she placed herself in prime position to watch over it. When she retired, Angela, who later married Allan Baker, took over.

The secretaries at G.N.House were formidable characters, fiercely loyal to their bosses. Over at KX Station, the Depot Manager there had Grace Goddard as his secretary. She was the daughter of Driver Arthur Taylor (of Silver Link fame) and brother of Arthur Taylor, who was your dads X day chargehand at Top Shed. And like Ada, Grace didn’t stand for any old nonsense either. That’s where I started before I went to G.N.House so Grace (who had worked in the G.N.House pool) filled me in on all the G.N.House characters like Ada before I had even got there!

I met Arthur Taylor, who had retired a few years before I joined, when he used to pop in to see Grace and he was another strong character, who knew his job well. Your dad got promotion to a large shed, at a relatively young age, with a whole load of different characters such as Arthur (and the likes of Bill Hoole) to deal with. It was no mean feat to manage this aspect of the job, as well as the technical side, all at the same time. I spent over 20 years on depots myself and have seen several managers try and fail - being a Depot Master, Manager or AME is not a job for everyone.

Your dads handwriting did defeat many people but once you got used to it, it was fairly easy to decipher. Only occasionally did I have to ask my colleague Peter Roberts what a particular word was but a lot of M&EE engineers I have come across on the railway do have that same trait.

One thing Peter Roberts tipped me off was when the SP (Shop Proposal) forms came up from the depot, I was to check them like a hawk before they went into your dad for signing, prior to them being sent to the ER Shopping Bureau at York. Omitted outstanding mods was a favourite one for him to point out to my predecessors, apparently, but I never had one sent back. It was a tough discipline at times in G.N.House but it served us, and the railway well.

 

[WesternLancer]

Peter Townend, my father, passed away in the early hours of 18th October, aged 98. He survived mum by 17 days. He will be greatly missed by family and many friends and former colleagues in the railway industry and the preservation movement. One of the last great men of steam, he was trained by the LNER as a premium apprentice at Doncaster Plant works and after a spell as a draughtsman in the locomotive drawing office, he moved into the motive power department where he was first employed on special projects as a 'progressman' while also providing short term relief cover as required for shedmasters and supervisors at various depots in East Anglia and on the Great Northern. In the mid-1950s he was successful in applying for the shedmaster vacancy at Kings Cross which was specially re-graded to be a management position due to the sheer size of the establishment there. He served in that position until the early 1960s when the majority of the allocated fleet was scrapped or dispersed and a lower-graded 'caretaker' was appointed to oversee final rundown and closure. Latterly he became the Kings Cross Divisional Traction and Rolling Stock Engineer, Responsible for diesel fleets and depots including the Deltics at Finsbury Park. He took early retirement in 1984 and moved from Letchworth, the family home, to Torquay in Devon where he and his wife Daphne enjoyed a long and happy retirement. Rest in Peace, Dad.

Thanks for posting this @MarkyT. As someone too young to recall much if any of the era mentioned it was nice to read this and other memories prompted, and learn some new things. Condolences to you and family.

 

[62484GlenLyon]

Today's Daily Telegraph carries an obituary of Peter Townend. It is viewable online but it may be behind a paywall.

It mentions the day in June 1961 when four A4s were used to work the Royal Train and two VIP specials, plus a stand-by loco, from London to York. On a day when everything had to run perfectly, everything did. The day stands as a fitting tribute to Peter and all his staff. May he rest in peace.

 

[Enthusiast]

It also says "One of his proudest moments came in 2016 when he was invited to a reunion of the seven surviving A4s."

There are only six and "The Great Gathering" was in 2013 - the 75th anniversary of Mallard's record breaking run - as the caption beneath his photograph at that event confirms.

 

[Harvester]

Today's Daily Telegraph carries an obituary of Peter Townend. It is viewable online but it may be behind a paywall.

It mentions the day in June 1961 when four A4s were used to work the Royal Train and two VIP specials, plus a stand-by loco, from London to York. On a day when everything had to run perfectly, everything did. The day stands as a fitting tribute to Peter and all his staff. May he rest in peace.

The decision to use steam on these trains was made at the highest management level, because of concerns over the poor reliability of the EE Type 4s, and the reluctance to risk the few unproven new Deltics. A4 60028 hauled the Royal Train, while 60003 and 60015 all in immaculate condition worked the specials for the guests. The round trips were completed without difficulty with early arrivals back at Kings Cross. One of the guest specials was reported to have reached a ‘ton’ down Stoke Bank but the recorder is not known! An excellent effort by Top Shed management and staff to make the day such a succes.