Kings Lynn to Norwich (avoiding Ely and lack of bridges)

[MrToad]

I usually only ever travel around Hampshire and an occasional trip into London. Had the pleasure of a trip from Kings Lynn to Norwich yesterday.

This prompted two observations from my son:

1. Why does my ticket say "Only Valid via Ely" when as far as we could tell every single train from Kings Lynn goes via Ely. What other way could I possibly go?

2. Kings Lynn to Ely was about 25 miles. After leaving Kings Lynn, we passed under the A47 and the rest of the trip was across flat fenland. We did not pass under or over another road on the whole of that leg - just level crossings. Is there a longer rail journey in England or the wider UK that could be made where you do not pass over or under a road?

Was very impressed with the Class 755s we had from Ely to Norwich. Had to double check we were not sat in First Class.

 

[Bishopstone]

I usually only ever travel around Hampshire and an occasional trip into London. Had the pleasure of a trip from Kings Lynn to Norwich yesterday.

This prompted two observations from my son:

1. Why does my ticket say "Only Valid via Ely" when as far as we could tell every single train from Kings Lynn goes via Ely. What other way could I possibly go?

Just a guess, but I recall certain rail tickets are, or were, valid on the bus route currently branded as 'Excel' which runs from Norwich to Peterborough via Kings Lynn (but not via Ely). This being a legacy of the closure of the rail routes between Norwich and Lynn via Dereham, and Lynn and March via Wisbech, back in the late 60s. So perhaps 'only valid via Ely' is directing you to use the train throughout, and not bus connections?

In days gone by, certain passenger trains from Norwich to the Midlands used the Ely avoiding line. So, again, 'only valid via Ely' would prohibit use of one of these trains to Peterborough, then the cross-country bus back to Lynn.

All in all, I suspect it's a very historic route descriptor that nobody has got around to deleting.

 

[Donny Dave]

2. Kings Lynn to Ely was about 25 miles. After leaving Kings Lynn, we passed under the A47 and the rest of the trip was across flat fenland. We did not pass under or over another road on the whole of that leg - just level crossings. Is there a longer rail journey in England or the wider UK that could be made where you do not pass over or under a road?

Grantham to Boston, once you pass under the ECML, has no overbridges (that I can recall) other than the Sleaford avoiding line.

 

[Kite159]

All in all, I suspect it's a very historic route descriptor that nobody has got around to deleting

Or it's something recent which was added to the tickets to do away with the phrase 'any permitted'. I can think of a few other flows which have a pointless 'Via X' restriction when the only way from A to B is via X.

 

[Magdalia]

2. Kings Lynn to Ely was about 25 miles. After leaving Kings Lynn, we passed under the A47 and the rest of the trip was across flat fenland. We did not pass under or over another road on the whole of that leg - just level crossings. Is there a longer rail journey in England or the wider UK that could be made where you do not pass over or under a road?

In the Fens, roads crossing the railway other than on the level takes some engineering effort.

The first time I travelled from Cambridge to Peterborough was in 1973, at that time there were no roads crossing over the railway between Newmarket Road in Cambridge and London Road in Peterborough. The 1970s and 1980s road construction programme changed that.

Ironically a bridge was built over the railway at Histon in 1963 only for the St Ives line to be closed to passengers 7 years later.

A feature of the Fens is level crossings with adjacent restricted height bridges going under the railway. Ely and Stonea are like this and frequently hit the headlines because of bridge strikes. Milton Road in Cambridge was also like this where it crossed the St Ives line, but the restricted height bridge going under the railway was closed to road traffic when the passenger service ended.

Littleport also has a restricted height bridge going under the railway, between the station and the level crossing. Road traffic could use it until quite recently when it became the walking route between the platforms, replacing a foot crossing at the other end of the station.

Another feature is the railway crossing over roads that run adjacent to rivers or drains. Examples include the Norwich line crossing the River Ouse at Queen Adelaide, and the Peterborough line crossing the Hundred Foot near Welney and the Twenty Foot near Three Horse Shoes. The Kings Lynn line does have one of these: there is a road on the west side of the River Ouse where the railway crosses it at Denver. So it is not true to say that the Kings Lynn-Ely line does not cross over any roads.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Or it's something recent which was added to the tickets to do away with the phrase 'any permitted'. I can think of a few other flows which have a pointless 'Via X' restriction when the only way from A to B is via X.

Looks to be exactly that. Doing some digging, it changed from Any Permitted in March 2021.

 

[Taunton]

A feature of the Fens is level crossings with adjacent restricted height bridges going under the railway. Ely and Stonea are like this and frequently hit the headlines because of bridge strikes. Milton Road in Cambridge was also like this where it crossed the St Ives line, but the restricted height bridge going under the railway was closed to road traffic when the passenger service ended.

I think a feature of the GER, or maybe LNER. There was one at Broxbourne, at the Essex Road level crossing, replaced by a bypass maybe 20 years ago, which only had headroom of about 6 feet, sometimes car aerials used to hit the roof and vehicles like Land Rovers could not use it. It was narrow, a bit difficult passing vehicles coming the other way, the crossing was extremely busy, as was the line, with the gates across more than half the time. To cap it all it regularly flooded in wet weather.

 

[John Webb]

I think a feature of the GER, or maybe LNER. There was one at Broxbourne, at the Essex Road level crossing, replaced by a bypass maybe 20 years ago, which only had headroom of about 6 feet, sometimes car aerials used to hit the roof and vehicles like Land Rovers could not use it. It was narrow, a bit difficult passing vehicles coming the other way, the crossing was extremely busy, as was the line, with the gates across more than half the time. To cap it all it regularly flooded in wet weather.

There was also a similar underpass at Cheshunt on Windmill Lane. There was an adjacent hand-worked crossing for larger vehicles. I used it a few times when learning to sail at the training base there. It has since been replaced by a full-barrier proper level crossing.

 

[MrToad]

Thank you all for your responses, insights and explanations. Been looking at the rail map online site and will look into the history of the railways in this part of the world in a lot more depth.

 

[High Dyke]

Grantham to Boston, once you pass under the ECML, has no overbridges (that I can recall) other than the Sleaford avoiding line.

Occupation bridge at Barkston (site of former East Jct. - though the deck has been removed), an Occupation bridge at Wilsford, Sleaford bypass and Fendyke Road, Frisby.

 

[plugwash]

1. Why does my ticket say "Only Valid via Ely" when as far as we could tell every single train from Kings Lynn goes via Ely. What other way could I possibly go?

AIUI until relatively recently the default route was "any permitted" but this came to be seen as "railway jargon" and there was therefore a push to remove it from tickets. As usual on the railway this was done in a half-assed manner.

Some tickets are still routed "any permitted", some where changed to geographic route codes (e.g. "via ely" in your case). In some cases, like yours, these new geographic route codes were a tautology, but in other cases it resulted in a reduction of the validity of the tickets and even cases where a permitted route exists, but no tickets were available for it. Some were changed to a route code that shows up as a single dot.

 

[saismee]

I think a feature of the GER, or maybe LNER.

There's a similar level crossing setup at Manningtree, quite possibly also for a similar reason.

I've always wondered why there isn't a more direct service from King's Lynn to Norwich. I just assumed it was due to a lack of capacity on the Ely North Junction and Trowse Swing Bridge, and probably lack of demand. If anyone knows other (or historical) reasons for this, I'd love to know. The current routes are either a very expensive journey (GTR!!!) and a change at Ely, or a very long bus journey the whole way.