Lack of ticket on departure on Merseyrail

[najaB]

Most people with corporate credit cards would want to use them for a variety of business-related purchases, rather than having to carry two cards, check two statements etc.

That all depends on the company. My current employer requires personal spend (meals, etc.) to be made on a personal card (or with cash) and be claimed back, rather than issuing corporate credit cards. I think only VPs and above get corporate cards.

 

[35B]

And my corporate card is only allowed to be used for business expenditure, but I'm required to claim back all expenses-or pay the bill myself.


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[Bletchleyite]

And my corporate card is only allowed to be used for business expenditure, but I'm required to claim back all expenses-or pay the bill myself.

That depends on the card. When I had one it was company settled but strictly not for any personal use at all. If accidentally personally used, though I never did, it was required that you admit such use as soon as you realised so it could be netted off any other claim you had, if they discovered it it would be a disciplinary matter. As people like to keep their jobs, this tends to remain in check in most companies.

 

[Joe Paxton]

That depends on the card. When I had one it was company settled but strictly not for any personal use at all. If accidentally personally used, though I never did, it was required that you admit such use as soon as you realised so it could be netted off any other claim you had, if they discovered it it would be a disciplinary matter. As people like to keep their jobs, this tends to remain in check in most companies.

Though not always.

 

[island]

You could, but when I think of my business travel, a complex mixture of fares, certainty, comfort is involved. As I have a corporate credit card that I use for my purchases, as do colleagues, it is better just to have TOD available.


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Visa has the back-end in place to do this on what they call purchasing cards. So far they remain somewhat of a niche market.

 

[Hadders]

Where I work we have to use a personal credit or debit card and claim back through expenses. If a colleague doesn't have, doesn't want or can't obtain a personal credit card then they can get a company credit card. The bill for this still has to be settled by the employee but the crucial difference is that the individuals credit rating isn't considered.

 

[faddy]

Be careful what you wish for with TVMs. The poor areas of Merseyside are rife with exploitative fee-charging ATMs and some corporate git could see new TVMs as a nice little earner too. I can imagine "Merseyrail have teamed up with TheTrainline.com to install new ticket machines at some of our busiest stations. These machines will sell tickets for travel on Merseyrail, Walrus card top-ups, and collection of tickets bought online from TheTrainline.com *booking fees may apply."

I would much prefer it if the existing ticket offices could print out TOD tickets for passengers.

Birkenhead MP Frank Field claimed the credit (deservedly or not I don't know) for getting some free ATMs installed in his constituency. Perhaps he could be persuaded to twist some arms at Merseyrail?

 

[faddy]

As most of the people of Merseyside currently lack access to ToD except at Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool South Parkway, St Helens Junction and maybe one or two other stations

It's been mentioned in another thread that ToDs can be collected from the West Allerton ticket office, being Northern operated although Merseyrail badged. Presumably also true of other City Line stations?

 

[faddy]

Yes and it is really annoying. I often through my work get Hoylake to Euston (advance first) which is cheaper (as much as £30) than Liverpool to London on the same train. I then have to make sure that I can collect my ticket in advance. In most cases it isn't a problem but sometimes I can only collect on the day of travel so have to buy an additional single ticket at £4.05 to get to Lime Street.

Which presumably means that you're breaking the Terms of the Advance by starting short even though paying to do so? (Nonetheless this Birkenhead resident with an over 60s' free pass will be looking at fares from Hoylake for future trips to London!)

Actually I wonder if you are starting short if you travel the whole route of the Advance even if not in possession of the ticket throughout?

 

[faddy]

I do not believe it will take any longer to issue a TOD then a usual ticket from a booking office window if the booking office know what they are doing and the reference number is available. I recently had a TOD printed by a booking office at a GTR station and it took less then 10 seconds from me giving them the number, entered it into the system and the tickets popped straight out.

Do you need to proffer a credit/debit card when collecting from a ticket office? In my limited experience of collecting from TVMs you're always asked for a card although (depending on the ticket issuer) not necessarily the card used for the purchase. Incidentally does this mean that cash only TVMs can't issue ToD?

 

[island]

If the ToD record requires a specific card at a TVM, it will also require that card at a booking office.

 

[Peakrider]

As I see it the rail industry in this country has created a problem that needn’t exist, ie the draconian insistence that tickets must (generally with a few notable exceptions) be printed at a station or at least by a railway ticket machine (if you’re lucky to have one at work or Uni).
They have spent lots of money over the years installing TOD machines all over the country, money which would have been far better spent agreeing a common standard and equipping all ticket checking staff and gates with bar code readers.
That way we could all benefit from storing our train tickets on our smartphones, on an email or printing off a pdf. It seems barmy that I can sit at home and book a Turkish train ticket online and then store that ticket on my phone, or print it off at home, same for Germany and umpteen other countries, but as a general rule for GB online purchased tickets, I have to allow extra time to collect them at the station from a temperamental machine.....if the station has a tOD machine at all that is, and if it is working. And yes the machines can be temperamental- I once only got issued with half the tickets for one booking from one Virgin machine - tried again at another machine and got some others - tried a third time and got the lot printed again - meaning that I had some tickets three times over!
And why the insistence of most websites to select the train station that they’ll be collected from when the reality is that the ticket can be Cole from any TOD machine? The rail industry is just adding needless hurdles.
Remind me - what year is it?

 

[swt_passenger]

And why the insistence of most websites to select the train station that they’ll be collected from when the reality is that the ticket can be collected from any TOD machine?

To stop you making plans to pick up the ticket somewhere it is not possible yet, such as at a Merseyrail station.

 

[Gareth Marston]

As I see it the rail industry in this country has created a problem that needn’t exist, ie the draconian insistence that tickets must (generally with a few notable exceptions) be printed at a station or at least by a railway ticket machine (if you’re lucky to have one at work or Uni).
They have spent lots of money over the years installing TOD machines all over the country, money which would have been far better spent agreeing a common standard and equipping all ticket checking staff and gates with bar code readers.
That way we could all benefit from storing our train tickets on our smartphones, on an email or printing off a pdf. It seems barmy that I can sit at home and book a Turkish train ticket online and then store that ticket on my phone, or print it off at home, same for Germany and umpteen other countries, but as a general rule for GB online purchased tickets, I have to allow extra time to collect them at the station from a temperamental machine.....if the station has a tOD machine at all that is, and if it is working. And yes the machines can be temperamental- I once only got issued with half the tickets for one booking from one Virgin machine - tried again at another machine and got some others - tried a third time and got the lot printed again - meaning that I had some tickets three times over!
And why the insistence of most websites to select the train station that they’ll be collected from when the reality is that the ticket can be Cole from any TOD machine? The rail industry is just adding needless hurdles.
Remind me - what year is it?

That's the benefits of fragmentation for you.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Well, that nice Mr Grayling has promised to do away with the need for bits of orange card on the railway by "the end of the year".
So maybe there will be a new solution to this problem which won't involve ATMs at all.
But Merseyrail isn't a DfT franchise, so it depends whether Merseytravel specifies that ME conforms to the new e-ticket policy, whatever it is.

Meanwhile I'm just about to book a stack of print-at-home e-tickets for a complicated trip on DB, ÖBB and MAV trains.
This means I can swan round central Europe for a few days without needing to visit a booking office or ATM - and no language problems either.

 

[Merseysider]

Well, that nice Mr Grayling has promised to do away with the need for bits of orange card on the railway by "the end of the year”

Not gonna happen!

 

[eastend43]

Interesting tweet from MerseyRail, telling people to check which stations you can pick up tickets purchased online from:

https://twitter.com/merseyrail/status/989131318641512448

The tweet says -

If you have purchased from an independent online retailer, please check before travelling to see which stations you can collect your tickets from before travel: > http://bit.ly/2HT2ax5

The link goes to a page on thetrainline.com

So they are highlighting their lack of Ticket on Departure and pointing people to a website that charges commission for selling tickets.

 

[najaB]

So they are highlighting their lack of Ticket on Departure and pointing people to a website that charges commission for selling tickets.

To be fair, they are saying to use TheTrainline to check where you can collect already purchased tickets from.

 

[gray1404]

Merseyrail still fail to address the issue of zero ticket on departure on their network (I say zero because the TVMs at Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool South Parkway and Chester are not operated by them) for one simple reason, they don't want to. I see not reason why it is not possible for them to connect their booking office systems up to be able to print TOD without the need to install additional TVMs. But they simply don't want to do anything about it. I had to travel from Formby to Liverpool to pick up a ticket the other day, very annoying.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Merseyrail still fail to address the issue of zero ticket on departure on their network (I say zero because the TVMs at Liverpool Lime Street, Liverpool South Parkway and Chester are not operated by them) for one simple reason, they don't want to. I see not reason why it is not possible for them to connect their booking office systems up to be able to print TOD without the need to install additional TVMs. But they simply don't want to do anything about it. I had to travel from Formby to Liverpool to pick up a ticket the other day, very annoying.

What incentive does Merseyrail have though? Why is it in their interests?

 

[gray1404]

Well why does any TOC provide TOD then if it would be in all their interests for people to use their booking offices rather then book online?

I think this question comes up to much for Merseyrail, why is it in their interests, when it has reached a point now whereby they are doing a disservice to their customers by not allowing them to collect prebooked ticket. Just about every other TOC provides such a service and so should Merseyrail.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Lack of ToD on Merseyrail really annoys me too. Travelling from my local Merseyrail station in the north Liverpool suburbs I can't take advantage of booking online to use cheap advance fares or get seat reservations on long distance services from Lime Street without paying the extra MerseyRail "tax" of buying an unnecessary extra ticket to Lime Street. Merseyrail have no interest in offering ToD as they don't sell tickets on their own website. Maybe they should be made to do what the rest of the rail industry can manage without any problems. When is the franchise up for renewal?

 

[gray1404]

I am lucky in that I have a travel pass which covers me to Lime Street, but it is annoying either having to make a special trip just to pick up tickets or indeed starting out my journey without tickets and having to collect them enroute. If I didn't have my pass I too would have to pay for an extra single into Liverpool until such time I am able to collect tickets.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Well why does any TOC provide TOD then if it would be in all their interests for people to use their booking offices rather then book online?

I think this question comes up to much for Merseyrail, why is it in their interests, when it has reached a point now whereby they are doing a disservice to their customers by not allowing them to collect prebooked ticket. Just about every other TOC provides such a service and so should Merseyrail.

Lets preface this with the oft quoted fact that Merseyrail has the highest subsidy per passenger KM in the UK.

Trainline receives commission on all ticket sales, therefore the slice of the pie that goes to the TOC's via ORCATS is smaller than through their own channels.
According to which source you use Trainline currently corners around 10-15% of UK rail ticket revenue.
Merseyrails turnover is approximately £150 million per annum.
If Trainline were selling 10 to 15% of that (£15-£20 million) and taking commission then its a substantial six figure sum that Merseyrail doesn't get.

Lets go back to the fact that Merseyrail has the highest subsidy per passenger KM in the UK. If you could collect your internet tickets who replaces the lost six figure sum?

You can add in ancillary factors such as Booking Offices and TVM's which cost £ to provide then spend part of their time working for someone else but you bear all the cost...
and yes forcing you to buy a ticket that Merseyrail see 100% of the revenue of before you get to Lime St and the train out of Scouse land is a bit sharp but it doubly benefits Merseyrail as any ORCATS revenue would be negligible on through tickets from West Kirby to Euston.

I'm sure Merseyrail would say yes if they could bill Trainline for the cost

 

[gray1404]

Too much of a focus on trainline here... I would never book through trainline!

 

[Dai Corner]

Does a TOC receive any income for printing a TOD ticket from a machine or ticket office, even if the journey isn't on its trains?

 

[Joe Paxton]

Does a TOC receive any income for printing a TOD ticket from a machine or ticket office, even if the journey isn't on its trains?

Yes. Dunno the latest guesstimate but circa 50p comes to mind ... I'd guess per TOD transaction fulfilled. It costs the retailer more if a TOD order is fulfilled from a ticket window.

 

[lyndhurst25]

Instead of Merseyrail and The Trainline fighting over who gets what share of the pie, maybe if they got their act together and sorted out a ToD, then there would be a bigger pie for them to share?

When my old car died, I started using MerseyRail + TPE to travel for work to West Yorkshire. Lack of ToD on MerseyRail meant expensive walk-up fares and no seat reservations on TPE so I often had to stand. Solution: I bought a new car ASAP and the railway lost a customer.

 

[dave4jackie]

how many stations are manned from 1st train until last train, apart from a few south of hooton all of them, how many other tocs can say that

 

[Controller1701]

Let us say that Merseyrail introduce TOD, and everyone now uses that, rather than the booking office and booking clerk. This then means that the guvnor's decide to close the ticket offices and you then have a complex enquiry about routing that you want answered, how do you get the TVM to answer this?