"Ladies and gentlemen"

[jon81uk]

I sometimes hear passengers informally addressed as "guys" which seems nowadays to be a generic non-gender-specific term, but I find it irritating as if the information only applies to males. I wonder if many women like to be referred to as "guys".

Completely agree with this one, guys is almost worse than the outdated ladies and gentleman.
Passengers is perfect for railway announcements. Customers in most other places. Everybody if it needs to follow good afternoon.

 

[Gloster]

If you are dealing with someone in a professional or business capacity you want them to be professional or business-like. I am fairly relaxed on exactly how I am greeted, but I expect it to be reasonably polite and to demonstrate that the speaker is reasonably clued up. ‘Hi, mate’ or ’Hey, bud’, both of which I have had in the last week or so from people working for firms that might otherwise have got a lot of money from me, do not give this impression. People who think that entering their place of work makes me their mate or bud are under a severe misapprehension and are being impertinently presumptuous.

It is similar with the railway. If you are parting with a large sum of money for a service which involves other people managing things, including your safety, you want them to be professional. You don’t want someone who gives the appearance of having a laid-back, clueless, don’t care attitude.

 

[AlterEgo]

Is this post a wind-up? If you are so self-obsessed that you think "ladies and gentleman" is some intentional jibe to make you feel left out, you need to get over yourself. You're really not as important as you think.

At least his forum name is @Christmas - and not Winterval or Holiday Season.

 

[D6130]

How about 'Good morning/afternoon/evening Folks!'....or does that sound too North American?

 

[dangie]

…. outdated ladies and gentleman.

How about ‘ladies and gentleman and others’
No, I thought not……

Let’s be honest here. Whatever term(s) are used its sure to offend someone.

 

[NorthKent1989]

There is nothing outdated or offensive about “Ladies and Gentlemen” erasing them just to appease a minority of a minority is just plain ridiculous.

 

[jon81uk]

How about ‘ladies and gentleman and others’
No, I thought not……

Let’s be honest here. Whatever term(s) are used its sure to offend someone.

Its the outdated language style as well that is the issue, not just the gendered terms.

 

[gg1]

It seems a little odd to me that some find certain announcement terms offensive, unacceptable or outdated, when they have no problem with the increased swearing and bad language which blights everyday life.

How the general public speak to each other and how a business addresses it's customers aren't comparable.

I'm firmly in the 'outdated and old fashioned' camp.

 

[185143]

When I was on the tube the other morning, the driver made an announcement to say we were following another train and would be held briefly. "Good morning everyone" was his greeting of choice.

I see nothing at all wrong with that.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I'm surprised people are *so* offended by "guys". Yes, it's casual, but it has a human touch. Let's not forget the Scots use "lads" for people of any gender, too...

 

[D6130]

I'm surprised people are *so* offended by "guys". Yes, it's casual, but it has a human touch. Let's not forget the Scots use "lads" for people of any gender, too...

.....as do the Irish.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I'm surprised people are *so* offended by "guys". Yes, it's casual, but it has a human touch. Let's not forget the Scots use "lads" for people of any gender, too...

Personally I'm not offended by 'guys': I've long since got used to that it informally is used to address mixed-sex groups, and its meaning has become gender-neutral in the plural. I use 'guys' myself to address or refer to groups of friends. But it's very informal language, and to my mind not appropriate in a professional setting - such as an on-board train announcement. On the other hand "Good morning everyone" is fine in professional announcements, as is "Good morning ladies and gentlemen"

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Just another case of the "permanently offended" finding something else to throw their toys out of the pram over.

At the end of the day, it's a polite expression - and just that, an expression - and anybody who takes the term too literally needs to give their head a wobble for there are far greater things happening in the world than a three-word phrase used with good intentions.

Once the "permanently offended" have managed to eradicate this phrase, they'll probably take offence to "good morning" - "well, that's not very inclusive as it's a Monday morning and I'm quite clearly not having a good morning!"

 

[westv]

Well, ladies and gentleman, this topic has led to a lot of debate.

 

[Techniquest]

Perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but I kind-of like 'ladies and gentlemen'. It feels right somehow, particularly in a formal setting.

As for the whole 'guys' thing then I try not to use it whatsoever. It feels wrong, even in an informal setting.

Thankfully there's no offspring to pass this ideology onto! Someone else commented that basically everything will offend someone. I agree with that, no matter what we do someone is going to take offence!

I also concur with the person who commented on the amount of foul language people seem to be immune to. That's definitely something that society as a whole should absolutely be focusing on sorting out, I'm no angel in that respect but I certainly do a lot better than the average person!

 

[CC 72100]

How about 'Good morning/afternoon/evening Folks!'....or does that sound too North American?

Thats what I use (albeit not in a tone suggested by the ! at the end) and have done for the last few years.

It is easy to be a naysayer on something like this and I probably used to be, but just imagine going through your life being told at every turn that you don't exist, because you don't fit neatly into one of those two categories.

It clicked a few years ago for me to be a little more careful with my language; it costs me nothing but may make somebody else feel that they're in a safe space and can be themselves.

It's just like the pronoun thing (where people put their pronouns on email footers). It is not because they are going through a gender identity change or questioning their identity, it is to normalise discussions around pronouns to make it easier for those who are.

However, and this is the big caveat- inclusive language is a journey and a big change. I think as a society we need to be very careful with avoiding demonising people who use more traditional terms and remember that there is unlikely to be an deliberate malice they are intending in doing so.

 

[birchesgreen]

It is easy to be a naysayer on something like this and I probably used to be, but just imagine going through your life being told at every turn that you don't exist, because you don't fit neatly into one of those two categories.

Many people don't, however you don't have to built a prison in your own mind. Not everything has to be taken so seriously.

 

[Busaholic]

What’s so bad about ladies and gentlemen? It’s a polite term, much rather hear that than “hello everybody” or worse still “hello guys” which is really a term for men, and not for women and plenty women in my lif

Agreed. Apart from anything else, my early teenage years were spent listening to Radio Luxembourg where Jimmy Savile was a big fish and his customary 'good evening guys and gals' used to grate with me, until I later realised, particularly after I first saw him, that everything about him was phoney.

 

[nw1]

I sometimes hear passengers informally addressed as "guys" which seems nowadays to be a generic non-gender-specific term, but I find it irritating as if the information only applies to males. I wonder if many women like to be referred to as "guys".

I've understood "guys" to be a gender-neutral term for quite some time now.

 

[CC 72100]

Many people don't, however you don't have to built a prison in your own mind. Not everything has to be taken so seriously.

I'll let people who identify as gender fluid answer that one!

 

[trainophile]

I've understood "guys" to be a gender-neutral term for quite some time now.

Definitely not in the literal sense. You wouldn't name your daughter Guy would you?

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Is this post a wind-up? If you are so self-obsessed that you think "ladies and gentleman" is some intentional jibe to make you feel left out, you need to get over yourself. You're really not as important as you think.

I did wonder if this was for real. But I suppose in this day and age many more people are touchy and sensitive

Personally I find nothing wrong with ladies and gentlemen.... Why not just have "ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls....?"

 

[dangie]

I've understood "guys" to be a gender-neutral term for quite some time now.

I still understand the word 'guys' to be male. That's my age I suppose.
Just like describing someone as 'gay'. In my old fashioned world it still means someone who's happy & cheerful although I'm careful not to call my male friends 'gay'

I'll let people who identify as gender fluid answer that one!

I had to Google that one. The first description which came up was:

'Someone who is fluid -- also called gender fluid -- is a person whose gender identity (the gender they identify with most) is not fixed. It can change over time or from day-to-day. Fluid is a form of gender identity or gender expression, rather than a sexual orientation.'

I've got no chance understanding modern life......

 

[Techniquest]

@dangie Until I saw your post there, I didn't know what it was either, and I always thought I had a modest understanding of the modern world. That being said, I only recently introduced myself to what 'asexual' means and I've still not properly got my head around 'pan-sexual'. Gender-fluid, that's an interesting concept which certainly requires further study.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

I had to Google that one. The first description which came up was:

'Someone who is fluid -- also called gender fluid -- is a person whose gender identity (the gender they identify with most) is not fixed. It can change over time or from day-to-day. Fluid is a form of gender identity or gender expression, rather than a sexual orientation.'

I've got no chance understanding modern life......

I'm really struggling to wrap my head around that.

I have no issue with the way anyone wants to live their life, but isn't that just... a cross-dresser?

 

[Gloster]

It seems to me that there are two types of result from being unhappy with the way you are addressed by someone.

One is essentially passive. You don’t do anything, but you (metaphorically) distance yourself from them and are less likely to put in a good word for them, even if deserved, or do business with them.

The second is active. You do do something, which may range from privately or publicly upbraiding them to making a formal complaint or putting them on social media.

Nowadays people seem to be far more touchy and inclined to believe that they have a right to push their personal preferences to the exclusion of others, even in the most unimportant situations. ”I don’t like something”, even if it is the most trivial matter is enough to justify thoroughly unpleasant behaviour to get it stopped.

And if you are wondering about the two cases mentioned in #32, I just made my excuses and left. Both were businesses that might have got three-figure sums out of me, but their casual manner put me off entrusting my money and important matters to them.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Agreed. Apart from anything else, my early teenage years were spent listening to Radio Luxembourg where Jimmy Savile was a big fish and his customary 'good evening guys and gals' used to grate with me, until I later realised, particularly after I first saw him, that everything about him was phoney.

Guys and Gals sounds like an American black and white movie from the 40s, the fact that Savile was saying that presumably in the 60s is a red flag that he was a phoney as you say.

Sadly guys now includes women and the women in my life hate being called a guy

 

[Purple Train]

It seems a little odd to me that some find certain announcement terms offensive, unacceptable or outdated, when they have no problem with the increased swearing and bad language which blights everyday life.

Quite.

 

[najaB]

Is this post a wind-up? If you are so self-obsessed that you think "ladies and gentleman" is some intentional jibe to make you feel left out, you need to get over yourself. You're really not as important as you think.

Which post are you referring to? The original poster said that they aren't bothered by it and you haven't quoted any other post so it does appear you are ranting at the wind.

 

[birchesgreen]

Why would ladies and gentlemen bother you if you was gender fluid, either term could apply on a given day.

As for guys i often use that at work when addressing my work colleagues, who are all female