Landslip at Hatfield Colliery (near Doncaster) line to Hull/Scunthorpe now reopened.

[ainsworth74]

Which October though?

I'm going to be ambitious and say October 2016

Maybe it's time network rail installed a live webcam to see what the progress is like?

It is moving, but, I don't think it's moving fast enough for a webcam to actually provide interesting footage. Releasing new pictures from time to time I think is a better alternative.

 

[Tomnick]

Good point, if the signalling's up the creek they'd have to instigate a manual token system. Kirk Sandall has the trackwork for a turnback, but possibly not the signalling. Wouldn't matter of course if they do manual token.

Your Rule Book must be different to ours! SLW (with a Pilotman) to the point of obstruction might be one option, from the first crossover outside the affected area and with everything within the affected area clipped up for a single route in and back out. Tokens don't come into it though!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Will there already be in-house geological and ground stability experts or will external consultants be employed to consider the matter of the fluidity of the spoil heap ?

 

[YorkshireBear]

Will there already be in-house geological and ground stability experts or will external consultants be employed to consider the matter of the fluidity of the spoil heap ?

At least some external as one of my lecturers was called in.

 

[Chris M]

It is moving, but, I don't think it's moving fast enough for a webcam to actually provide interesting footage.

Don't be too sure on that - at http://www.ciderbrandy.co.uk/cam2.html you can watch cider brandy maturing in oak barrels. The youngest product is matured for 3 years, the oldest 15 for years.

 

[222meridianfan]

Hi guys, i went on sunday 24th feb and there was no exclusion zone. You can get right up to it in the field next to the line. I would recommend you take wellies as it is very muddy. If you have a car i parked on Kirton lane and walked down Hugh hill lane.

 

[Boothby97]

A Cleethorpes guard I know said the line could be shut for a year!!
Thanks, Sam

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Don't be too sure on that - at http://www.ciderbrandy.co.uk/cam2.html you can watch cider brandy maturing in oak barrels. The youngest product is matured for 3 years, the oldest 15 for years.

Did you notice the deliberate mistake on the home page...If one of the images breaks, please refresh your "BOWSER"..hock:

We have a "bowser" in the paddock at the rear of our property which holds a very large capacity and will not need refreshing for some considerable time..

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Which October though?

Id rather not say, this keeps my options open

 

[ainsworth74]

Did you notice the deliberate mistake on the home page...If one of the images breaks, please refresh your "BOWSER"..

We have a "bowser" in the paddock at the rear of our property which holds a very large capacity and will not need refreshing for some considerable time..

The generational divide rears it head once again! For me, the word 'Bowser' brings this to mind

 

[High Dyke]

Which 1 was that then? Viking FM or Lincs FM?

Lincs FM. I forget you lot at that end of the county have a sister station to it.

 

[dysonsphere]

Has anyone got any recent pictures of the slip or a link to some. (recent as in last few days)

 

[D1009]

...and, as touched upon earlier in the thread, the signalling in the area has been lost as it was fed from Thorne Junction. Not sure whether that would also affect a turnback at Kirk Sandall though, if that move's normally possible.

I'm pretty sure that in the event of a prolonged closure it would be possible to instigate temporary signalling arrangements to enable trains to turn back from Hatfield, Thorne North and Thorne South, but the question would be whether the benefits would justify the costs compared with the current arrangements, given that buses would still be needed. There are examples in the past where temporary arrangements have been put in place, two I can think of were Workington North, which was to solve a non railway problem, and when repairs to Cilcewydd Bridge on the Cambrian closed the line between Welshpool and Newtown, and two temporary platforms were built either side of the blockage so people could walk between the two.

 

[Tomnick]

It's entirely possible - see my earlier posts, and a brief discussion on the length of the sections involved and number of staff required. To work Single Line Working on all three routes (it'd certainly be necessary for the two routes from the east) approaching Mount Hatfield, you'd need a total of three Pilotmen, three or four LC attendants (assuming the AHBs to the north and east aren't provided with wrong-direction controls) and maybe a couple of Handsignalmen. It can be done with the existing infrastructure - but is it worth it?

 

[swissrailpassion]

It's entirely possible - see my earlier posts, and a brief discussion on the length of the sections involved and number of staff required. To work Single Line Working on all three routes (it'd certainly be necessary for the two routes from the east) approaching Mount Hatfield, you'd need a total of three Pilotmen, three or four LC attendants (assuming the AHBs to the north and east aren't provided with wrong-direction controls) and maybe a couple of Handsignalmen. It can be done with the existing infrastructure - but is it worth it?

Basically, you have to get a bus at some point so it is easier to get it from a staffed station in a town rather than halts in the middle of nowhere. Someone earlier made the point that ticket cash and machines are carried by guards and they would be vulnerable at unstaffed halts.

As for the slip, I think it's very much wait and see what happens next; in order to get an accurate diagnosis then think of a plan.

 

[Tomnick]

Indeed, the bus journey from either Scunthorpe or Goole to Thorne is neither slow nor convoluted, so there'd be little saved by providing the staff to run trains to Thorne under SLW arrangements. I'd certainly not want to spend any time hanging around in Thorne or Stainforth, especially at night!

 

[high camera]

I couldnt resist going and take a look for myself last week, the 2 shots below do show the dramatic disturbance but what they dont show is just how much slag is just sat there waiting to spoil the party!

I am no expert on geology (o level only) but I get a gut feeling that theres not a lot going to happen at this site for at least a year. The slag moving operation alone is going to be colossal.

 

[Ploughman]

Have the rails on the 2nd track from the right been cut?
Looks a bit like it at the start of the disturbance.

 

[Zoidberg]

Have the rails on the 2nd track from the right been cut?
Looks a bit like it at the start of the disturbance.

I don't think so - it's the angle from which the photo was taken. It's clearer (to me) from the bottom pic that the lines are still complete, just dipping down then back up.

EDIT: You're right Ploughman. Sorry. See post #351.

 

[high camera]

I had noticed that and thought it was cut, if you look very carefully at the tracks to the left you can see what appears to be other cuts which haven't separated.

Out of shot (in the foreground) NR have removed large sections of track completely.

 

[Zoidberg]

I had noticed that and thought it was cut, if you look very carefully at the tracks to the left you can see what appears to be other cuts which haven't separated.

Out of shot (in the foreground) NR have removed large sections of track completely.

On closer inspection (zooming to 400%) I'm revising my opinion. You are right. I think that the rails have been cut ... as have the rest around the same horizontal position.

 

[Teaboy1]

Not my handiwork but scan from Don Free press, dont know who is copyright (its NOT mine) but lets say its care-of Don Free Press et al.
Plenty of water in view so this explains whats likely happened.
Gives all a better view overall I hope, sorry about poor quality, newsprint etc !
I tried the VIDEO FEED but its pants did not open up for me ??

 

[222meridianfan]

I have heard that the slag heap has stopped moving as there has been no movement from the probes which have been inserted into the ground for 6 days. Network rail are now on standby waiting for the all clear from Hargreaves. Then let the repair commence

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have heard that the slag heap has stopped moving as there has been no movement from the probes which have been inserted into the ground for 6 days. Network rail are now on standby waiting for the all clear from Hargreaves. Then let the repair commence

How much recent rain has there been in this area which would feed into the ground-water streams in the substrate area of the spoil heap ? Surely those with knowledge of how reliquidification of the colliery waste could occur after more rainfall should be consulted by Network Rail for their view on this matter.

 

[222meridianfan]

Theres been no rain for about 2 1/2 weeks, even the field next to the landslide is starting to dry up which is currently waterlogged

 

[Bakerbloke]

But am I right in thinking that it only needs to rain hard for one day and then movement would continue?

On another note - now TPE have plenty of time to spare on the west side of the Mount, can they think about reinstating their Chinley stops that were axed 18 months ago? For example the 1810 out of Sheffield. Might help with their revenue and the lost services are still sadly missed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
At least until the line is rebuilt.

 

[222meridianfan]

But am I right in thinking that it only needs to rain hard for one day and then movement would continue?

I was thinking the exact same thing

 

[Donny Dave]

How much recent rain has there been in this area which would feed into the ground-water streams in the substrate area of the spoil heap ?

There's been very little rain around here. The water in the second picture came from the snow we had the previous day, but apart from that, we've only had the odd shower around here.

 

[high camera]

There is no way that NR would start this job until all risks of a repeat are removed, so that means removal of a substantial amount of slag (millions of tons). Reading information posted on scientific blogs about the event, I gather that even if the pivotal rotational slump does stabilise as soon as anything is added/removed it could restart.

 

[pdq]

This has been posted on the FTPE Facebook page this morning:

Now that the spoil heap has stopped moving, teams have conducted more detailed surveys of the damage and are planning the work which needs to be completed to restore rail services through the area. Network Rail engineers are beginning the slow process of removing spoil from Hatfield colliery which has severely damaged the railway in Stainforth.

Nick Donovan, FTPE managing director said: “The damage caused by the spoil heap is extensive and Network Rail have advised us that the line will not be open for use until approximately the end of June. This is clearly not ideal for rail passengers and disruption to journeys is likely to be significant.​