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Landslips

Ploughman

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With the amount of slips being mentioned on here, I wondered just how many are there?
So Where are they?
How big?
Are they being worked on and how?
Cause?
Are trains stopped or diverted?

I don't want any detail of timetable affects other than those in my last point above.
 
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snowball

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A search for the word "landslip" in recent thread titles finds the following, with date of creation of the thread (or date of the landslip if given in the title):

Baildon 8 Feb 2024
Newington 23 Feb 2024
Sonning 26 Feb 2024
Knottingley 11 Mar 2024
Wellington (Salop) 9 Mar 2024
between Rugby and Coventry 11 Feb 2024
Dewsbury 8 Nov 2023
Woking (not in thread title which just says SWML) 1 Dec 2023
Crewkerne 5 Dec 2023
Ventnor 10 Dec 2023
between Darlington and Newcastle 8 Nov 2023
 

Western 52

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There were also reported landslips between Patchway and Pilning a couple of weekends ago, with trains all using the up line. Portsmouth to Cardiff trains were being terminated at Bristol.
 

Nicholas Lewis

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The root cause is that our railways were built long before soil mechanics etc was even a discipline. Add in climate change and allowing trees and vegetation to grow where once it was kept well in check and these are the root causes.
They were but have got through 150 years plus without the scale of slips we've had over the last few years. I know finger pointing is towards more rain and for sure that is the initiating event but how much is the legacy from a change in vegetation management that started over 30 years ago in altering the ground conditions.
 

pnepaul

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I travel quite a bit between Carlisle, Lancaster and Preston. The ground is very saturated, the worse I have seen it to be honest. (More prolonged rain today). I can only speak for my area, but I'm not too surprised there have been numerous landslips. I hope there are no more, but I fear there will be.
 

david1212

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They were but have got through 150 years plus without the scale of slips we've had over the last few years. I know finger pointing is towards more rain and for sure that is the initiating event ....
Last winter / spring had significantly less than average rainfall and before then two summers with heatwaves resulting in ground drying and shrinking before the soaking of recent months.
.... but how much is the legacy from a change in vegetation management that started over 30 years ago in altering the ground conditions.
I too wonder if vegetation was still as 50+ years ago how it would have changed the recent events.
While not a landslip site the photographs of the Fisherton Tunnel mouth and the adjacent junction at Salisbury in 1970 and after the incident show what happens when growth is not regularly controlled.
 

D6975

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Someone has done it for me.... I was about to start a thread on this very subject as it seems that barely a week goes by without news of another one. The high levels of rainfall are undoubtedly partly responsible, but I too think that the sometimes excessive deforestation of railway property is playing a part. One can't help but wonder how long it is going to be before a train travelling at speed comes across a fresh one.
 
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hwl

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Someone has done it for me.... I was about to start a thread on this very subject as it seems that barely a week goes by without news of another one. The high levels of railfall are undoubtedly partly responsible, but I too think that the sometimes excessive deforestation of railway property is playing a part. One can't help but wonder how long it is going to be before a train travelling at speed comes across a fresh one.
Forestation is a big part of the problems...
 

snowball

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but I too think that the sometimes excessive deforestation of railway property is playing a part.
I think most people who post about trees on railway land are saying the opposite of that - too many trees have been allowed to grow and not enough are removed.
 

D6975

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I think most people who post about trees on railway land are saying the opposite of that - too many trees have been allowed to grow and not enough are removed.
Come to Bristol and have a look around - trees near the railway have been drastically removed around here. Filton bank and the descent to the Severn tunnel have had loads removed and guess what? Yes - 2 tracks on Filton bank were recently OOU because of a landslip.
 
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A search for the word "landslip" in recent thread titles finds the following, with date of creation of the thread (or date of the landslip if given in the title):

Baildon 8 Feb 2024
Newington 23 Feb 2024
Sonning 26 Feb 2024
Knottingley 11 Mar 2024
Wellington (Salop) 9 Mar 2024
between Rugby and Coventry 11 Feb 2024
Dewsbury 8 Nov 2023
Woking (not in thread title which just says SWML) 1 Dec 2023
Crewkerne 5 Dec 2023
Ventnor 10 Dec 2023
between Darlington and Newcastle 8 Nov 2023
Don't forget between Haddenham and Bicester, 11 Jan 2024
 

Snow1964

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By far one of the most spectacular (if that is right word) is the embankment collapse just west of Sway station, where clay soil slumped during construction of the line. Apparently one part at bottom of embankment is now 500 feet wide.

It is reason why the 3 stations have 1886 carved in stone, but line didn't open until March 1888, so took over year to sort out. Can see how wide it is from area covered by trees in this google earth view

 

Bald Rick

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They were but have got through 150 years plus without the scale of slips we've had over the last few years. I know finger pointing is towards more rain and for sure that is the initiating event but how much is the legacy from a change in vegetation management that started over 30 years ago in altering the ground conditions.

The latest water situation reports are out, and its fair to say February was very wet (the wettest since records began in some places), and the ground is saturated.

What is surprising to me is that we havent had more landslips.
 

hwl

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What is surprising to me is that we havent had more landslips.
Agreed - as thought the rate of change in soil moisture is low and soil moisture levels are reasonably homogenous because of that and also not too many winter storms with high wind speeds to work on the trees.

Also the weather over much of the last few years may have already brought out a good number of the most likely to fail already.
 

david1212

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I have pulled the posts quoted below from another thread.

I had already pondered how significant tree root growth then where cut rotting resulting from reduced lineside maintenance / clearance over ~50 years could be. If cut / removed as saplings far less change to the generally 100+ year old construction.

Five years from Network Rail's tree-a-geddon / rail adhesion improvement exercise

the roots are now totally rotten and the whole muddy pile is falling down ;)

And the answer is that they should not have ever let the trees grow out of everywhere (and everything) in the first place.
 

YorkshireBear

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I have pulled the posts quoted below from another thread.

I had already pondered how significant tree root growth then where cut rotting resulting from reduced lineside maintenance / clearance over ~50 years could be. If cut / removed as saplings far less change to the generally 100+ year old construction.
I have not noticed the landslips up north being in areas where the trees have been cut down so I'm not sure the logic stands up that there is any correlation.

Whether vegetation is good or bad depends on the angles, soil type, soil moisture regime and the type of vegetation it is not a black or white subject.
 

baz962

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On the MML there are still lot's of fields under water. Up by Nottingham and near Wellingborough are quite bad still.
 

185

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The washouts (not landslips) are caused by water run-off or streams. These occur very quickly and take the ballast with them often leaving the rails in mid air, or wash ballast over the railhead.

The failing embankments are caused by rotting tree roots. These cause serious sinks in the line and often landslips but these are often gradual, generally appearing slowly.
 

Bald Rick

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The failing embankments are caused by rotting tree roots. These cause serious sinks in the line and often landslips but these are often gradual, generally appearing slowly.

Some embankment landslips are caused by trees, some rotten, some very much alive. However many embankment landslios are caused by many other factors - not least their ‘design’ / construction 150-200 years ago.
 
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Whether vegetation is good or bad depends on the angles, soil type, soil moisture regime and the type of vegetation it is not a black or white subject.
Also what happens after a major intervention like felling trees. If the trees had become dense, there was probably little vegetation under them, so the earthwork is initially left close to bare.

If soil fertility is high (lots of chipped material left to rot) then round here cuttings seem to go to bramble or ivy, which are very different to a permanent grass cover (with a dense thatch of grass at the bottom).

The grassy embankments seen before 1970 only stayed that way because they were cut, and just as much because the cut material was taken off, which held down soil fertility. Although the above ground vegetation was cut off, the roots were not killed so remained alive. Chopping down trees and poisioning the stumps is a very different effect, as others have said the roots die, but also the fertility is also released by chipping the wood over the line side to rot.

Unfortunately, appreciation of the role of soil fertility is poor even within the landscape profession, and much worse in either civil engineering or network rail (some of the weird policies adopted by Network Rail demonstrate this).
 

Snow1964

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Network Rail has posted photo of the problem on Redhill-Tonbridge line

No trains for at least two weeks between Tonbridge and Redhill due to emergency repair work

The line between Tonbridge and Redhill will be closed for at least two weeks while Network Rail undertakes urgent repairs to the embankment that carries the railway.

Network Rail has dealt with repeated track defects at this site because of movement in the embankment that carries the railway, most recently over the Easter weekend when the railway had to be closed for emergency repairs.

Following a thorough assessment by geotechnical specialists, Network Rail is now preparing to undertake more substantial works on the embankment to address the underlying cause of the problem and in the coming days will share further details on the anticipated timescales for re-opening this line. Throughout this project Network Rail are also working closely with environmental and ecological specialists to minimise any impacts on the wildlife at the site.

 

Omnishambles

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In the short distance between Basingstoke and Woking over the last 12mths:
Hook (embankment)
Brookwood (cutting)
Farnborough (cutting)
IIRC also a couple of additional cutting slips further south towards Wallers Ash/Micheldever
 

JKF

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29 May 2019
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Do we have any data on frequency of landslips in previous decades, is it a recognisable increase, or just something that is being reported or noted more? I know quite a few beeching-era closures were brought forward because of earthworks failure, and I’m aware certain lines like the Gloucester-Warwickshire are known for poorly engineered banks failing.
 

HSTEd

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Ultimately we can't expect railways built by engineers with no modern engineering design tools to last forever, especially in the face of extreme weather like the wettest winter ever recorded.
 

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