Law Change will require voters to show photo ID

[Mat17]

I remember first going to vote about twenty years ago and being stunned that I didn't have to take any i.d. with me. Especially since I'd had to produce i.d. for lots of other things, picking up parcels from the royal mail depot, buying alcohol etc.

To be honest, although I'm no fan of an i.d. card with a giant database behind it tracking your every step. I do think producing a simple i.d. (passport/driving license or other alternative) at a polling station is a bit of a no brainer.

I'd be well miffed to turn up to vote finding out someone had already been and fraudulently voted on my behalf.

I just think the current system is open to potential abuse (not necessarily that it's widespread/prevalent at all at this time). But why leave such a loophole if it can be easily closed?

It's a bit like not putting brakes on a penny-farthing bike, well I haven't needed them yet... The hindsight brigade will soon be on it when the wheels come off due to an accident! "Why wasn't this sorted? They knew about it..." You can hear it now.

As for voted disenfranchisement, well the local councils surely can provide free identification for those that require assistance, surely? After all they managed to provide i.d. cards in the 1940s, it can't be a massive stumbling block surely, after all we've just conducted a nationwide census!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I wonder how many people neither have the two most Government department and commercial company requested items of identity of either a passport or a driving licence?

 

[nlogax]

I wonder how many people neither have the two most Government department and commercial company requested items of identity of either a passport or a driving licence?

As Venn diagrams go I would imagine that would be a fairly large intersection.

 

[JamesT]

As Venn diagrams go I would imagine that would be a fairly large intersection.

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/voter-id-key-facts-and-figures/ has:
(List of acceptable forms of Photo ID)

Approximately 3.5m electors (7.5% of the electorate) would have none of the forms of photo ID highlighted, i.e. 92.5% of electors would already have at least one form of acceptable photo ID.
Limiting acceptable ID to passports and photographic driving licences would see potentially 11m electors, or 24% of the electorate, without acceptable ID.

 

[najaB]

As for voted disenfranchisement, well the local councils surely can provide free identification for those that require assistance, surely? After all they managed to provide i.d. cards in the 1940s, it can't be a massive stumbling block surely, after all we've just conducted a nationwide census!

They can provide free ID cards, the question is if they will ensure that councils have adequate funding and what loops they'll make people go though to get one.

 

[ainsworth74]

They can provide free ID cards, the question is if they will ensure that councils have adequate funding and what loops they'll make people go though to get one.

Well and why the taxpayer is spending money to fix a problem which doesn't exist...

 

[najaB]

Well and why the taxpayer is spending money to fix a problem which doesn't exist...

That too. But given the way that this government has been spending money to not fix problems that actually exist (e.g. £12.5B for a track and trace system that didn't work), is any one really surprised?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I would support a new ruling that no-one with an IQ of less than 120 should be allowed to vote. That way the lunatics cannot run the asylum...

That too. But given the way that this government has been spending money to not fix problems that actually exist (e.g. £12.5B for a track and trace system that didn't work), is any one really surprised?

Does it not seem strange to see postings about the Conservatives actually being accused of spending money after they were the party who saw austerity as the way forward for about ten years prior to that.

 

[Mat17]

Does it not seem strange to see postings about the Conservatives actually being accused of spending money after they were the party who saw austerity as the way forward for about ten years prior to that.

It doesn't matter what they do, to the left, the Tories are the ultimate villains.

 

[Typhoon]

They can provide free ID cards, the question is if they will ensure that councils have adequate funding and what loops they'll make people go though to get one.

Funding - we know the answer to that. Local authorities will be on a hiding to nothing, either put together a decent package that enables most, if not all, potential voters to obtain photoID easily and risk the anger of those who don't have potholes filled, verges mowed, pavements repaired. refuse collected; or make a token effort and claim that because only a few have come forward, most must have photoID already. They will be lucky if they get any more than a year's lease on a photo-booth from HMG. What's the chance that some councils will outsource it to the usual suspects?

Those least likely to have photoID are the poor in urban areas (don't go on foreign holidays, use public transport) and the elderly (in many cases never learnt to drive, and past the stage of foreign holidays now). So perhaps largish conurbations and shire councils will be most affected?

That too. But given the way that this government has been spending money to not fix problems that actually exist (e.g. £12.5B for a track and trace system that didn't work), is any one really surprised?

For a minute I thought that read £12.58, which is probably its worth. They've moved on - a new Royal yacht (https://news.sky.com/story/new-roya...within-weeks-costing-as-much-as-200m-12292880. For who, exactly? Where are you now, George Osbourne?

 

[najaB]

Does it not seem strange to see postings about the Conservatives actually being accused of spending money...

The issue I have with the Conservatives has never been that they don't spend money, it's what they spend it on.

For example, they're quite happy to spend money on the MoD even if that means cutting the DfID/FCDO budget to pay for it.

It doesn't matter what they do, to the left, the Tories are the ultimate villains.

Having become politically aware in the 1980s I used to be a supporter of conservative parties - the Regan and Thatcher years were what I grew up with and I used to see left-leaning politics as strange. However, the shift that we've seen on both sides of the Atlantic with both the Conservative Party and the Republican Party embracing increasingly anti-worker and anti-democratic policies means I now find that I can no longer support them. As many GOP members (and some Tories) are on record as saying: "The party no longer represents my views".

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It doesn't matter what they do, to the left, the Tories are the ultimate villains.

Well, they would say that, wouldn't they....

 

[102 fan]

It's been standard practice in NI for many years, without any problems. I think this is one occasion when GB is behind NI.

 

[75A]

Makes me smile when people say the local authorities are impoverished, when they keep spending money on ridiculous speed bumps that have no effect at all.
My big 4 x 4 goes straight over them & the brats on the motorbikes just go through the gap in between the 2 bumps, absolutely laughable.

 

[birchesgreen]

Makes me smile when people say the local authorities are impoverished, when they keep spending money on ridiculous speed bumps that have no effect at all.
My big 4 x 4 goes straight over them & the brats on the motorbikes just go through the gap in between the 2 bumps, absolutely laughable.

I don't know about this case but there are many pots of monies available to LAs for specific investment and if they don't claim it they'll lose it. Hence why you sometimes see LAs spend money on stuff that hardly seems a priority.

Personally my little Fiesta has to take speed bumps easy, as like me is it quite elderly and increasingly delicate!

 

[Annetts key]

I would support a new ruling that no-one with an IQ of less than 120 should be allowed to vote. That way the lunatics cannot run the asylum...

how is Boris going to vote for himself?

Does it not seem strange to see postings about the Conservatives actually being accused of spending money after they were the party who saw austerity as the way forward for about ten years prior to that.

Conservatives are happy to spend money. Especially if it’s not their money. And especially if it’s in the year on the run up to an election...

The problem is that IMHO they cut funding to things I consider important, but spend or waste money on some things that I do not consider important. Plus they often tinker with the tax rules to make it look good. The reality is that the majority of people do not pay less tax (overall) when Conservatives are in power (compared to other parties). And government spending, is far more dependent on how the economy is doing (or rather, not doing), not on the policies of the government.

But this is going off topic, so I’ll stop now.

Back on topic, it’s already been discussed why there is very little incentive for in person voter fraud. Hence why it does not happen (based on the information available).

If you want to try to swing an election with our first past the post system, your best bet is to use the postal voting system.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Can anyone recall the last time that a political party thought ID cards for all and sundry was a good idea and the reasons why it was never proceeded with.

 

[Typhoon]

It doesn't matter what they do, to the left, the Tories are the ultimate villains.

My issue is with this Prime Minister who seems to have a track record of spending money on vanity projects. As mayor - water cannon, garden bridge, the cable car, some money will have been wasted on Boris Island. More recently there is his road scheme to Northern Ireland, the Downing Street Briefing Room, repainting that plane that jets him around, and now a new Royal yacht. Has he asked the Queen because, judging by her track record, she will not want money spent on a project like that at a time of national difficulty. (I will leave Covid-19 waste until later, and there has been a lot - fraudsters taking out loans in other people's names for a start, but this may be down to others).

 

[Purple Orange]

Makes me smile when people say the local authorities are impoverished, when they keep spending money on ridiculous speed bumps that have no effect at all.
My big 4 x 4 goes straight over them & the brats on the motorbikes just go through the gap in between the 2 bumps, absolutely laughable.

I have to take speed bumps easier in my car, which is a medium sized hatchback. They clear work for most car types, but obviously if you’re in a monster truck then they won’t have an impact. Then again, are 4x4s not overkill for driving in towns & cities?

 

[najaB]

My big 4 x 4 goes straight over them & the brats on the motorbikes just go through the gap in between the 2 bumps, absolutely laughable.

Given that neither big 4x4s or motorbikes represent the majority of road vehicles they don't really sound like the waste of money you're making them out to be.

 

[75A]

I have to take speed bumps easier in my car, which is a medium sized hatchback. They clear work for most car types, but obviously if you’re in a monster truck then they won’t have an impact. Then again, are 4x4s not overkill for driving in towns & cities?

Then again, I live in a village in the Leicestershire countryside where you need a 4 x 4 to get around.

Given that neither big 4x4s or motorbikes represent the majority of road vehicles they don't really sound like the waste of money you're making them out to be.

You obviously dont live where I do then.

 

[najaB]

Then again, I live in a village in the Leicestershire countryside where you need a 4 x 4 to get around.

You obviously dont live where I do then.

Ah, the countryside village, natural home of the wild speed bump.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I remember first going to vote about twenty years ago and being stunned that I didn't have to take any i.d. with me. Especially since I'd had to produce i.d. for lots of other things, picking up parcels from the royal mail depot, buying alcohol etc.

To be honest, although I'm no fan of an i.d. card with a giant database behind it tracking your every step. I do think producing a simple i.d. (passport/driving license or other alternative) at a polling station is a bit of a no brainer.

I'd be well miffed to turn up to vote finding out someone had already been and fraudulently voted on my behalf.

How miffed would you feel if you turned up to vote only to discover that you are not allowed to vote because you don't own any of the acceptable forms of ID?

As for voted disenfranchisement, well the local councils surely can provide free identification for those that require assistance, surely? After all they managed to provide i.d. cards in the 1940s, it can't be a massive stumbling block surely, after all we've just conducted a nationwide census!

Sure, in principle, councils can provide identification, but that means that people who don't have passports or driving licences etc. have extra hurdles to jump over in order to vote. How far in advance would people who need the ID need to do so? At a guess, it's likely to several weeks. That means you have something like 75-90% (depending exactly what ID is deemed acceptable) of the population who can just turn up on the day to vote without any hassle, and 10-25% of the population who can only vote if they plan some weeks ahead to go through whatever admin hoops are necessary to get ID. Having that kind of two-tier thing where some people can vote easily and others can't cannot possibly be good for democracy.

 

[Busaholic]

If photo ID is supposed to immediately confirm the identity of the person presenting it, I'll cite my concessionary bus pass photo, taken by a council employee when I was 60 and reused (not by me, but the issuers) every time I need a new pass. A new one arrived a couple of weeks ago on the occasion of my 73rd birthday, and I can only dream of ever looking like that again, besides which I now have a beard. I'm utterly unidentifiable from it, but there is no procedure for altering it, as far as I can see.I might be tempted to change sex just to test the system, but that might be a bit extreme. Cutting something off to spite your face not really my scene!

 

[Farang]

It just feels wrong not to have to produce ID for something so important as voting. Together with the pencil on a string it makes the process seem weird and anachronistic, like Morris dancing.

 

[najaB]

It just feels wrong not to have to produce ID for something so important as voting.

And in countries where ID documents are universal and free it makes perfect sense to require the document to be presented in order to vote.

But we do not have universal free ID.

 

[Elwyn]

And in countries where ID documents are universal and free it makes perfect sense to require the document to be presented in order to vote.

But we do not have universal free ID.

We don’t have universal free ID in the UK, but I’d be interested to know how many people contributing to this debate and grumbling so loudly about the likely impact, don't actually have one of the alternative qualifying documents. (Hands up, or say nothing). Most people do. So what’s your point exactly?

Frankly, I think this is all much ado about nothing. We have had a voting ID requirement in NI for years (as do so many countries) and it causes no problem at all. It prevents fraud. We like it. I also have Canadian friends who accompanied me to vote here in NI a few years back who were astonished how slick it was. Apparently to vote in Canada multiple ID is required. Much slower. Think on.

 

[najaB]

Most people do. So what’s your point exactly?

As you say, most people.

 

[JamesT]

As you say, most people.

And for those that don’t, there will be a free alternative.

 

[najaB]

And for those that don’t, there will be a free alternative.

As I've said several times already: if it is both free and easily accessible then there's no problem.

Which won't be an issue given this government's strong, proven track record of funding local authorities. Oh, wait…