LED lights onboard

[HST43277]

Does anyone know why some of the newer trains, for example the Azuma have LED lighting that makes the interior feel and look cold rather than than warm ones? Is it for security reasons?

 

[py_megapixel]

The cynical part of me wants to attribute this to cold white LEDs simply being cheaper than warm ones.

Cost-cutting is evident in many other aspects of these units - not just the lighting.

 

[A0wen]

The cynical part of me wants to attribute this to cold white LEDs simply being cheaper than warm ones.

Cost-cutting is evident in many other aspects of these units - not just the lighting.

Except there's no price difference in such bulbs as 30 seconds on something like E-bay will tell you.

It's more likely in response to customer feedback - the 'cold' LEDs are usually the 'natural' look, whereas the 'warm' is an artificial light, it's just that with incandescent bulbs we'd become accustomed to artificial lights having a 'warm' hue. And for things like reading, natural lights are generally considered 'better'.

 

[virgintrain1]

The IETs would have been perfect to try a Boeing Sky interior style set up as some are the LEDs are in similar places.
Even Ryanair has it so it can't be that expensive!

 

[SussexLad]

Does anyone know why some of the newer trains, for example the Azuma have LED lighting that makes the interior feel and look cold rather than than warm ones? Is it for security reasons?

I believe its to do with disabled access. Blind and visually impaired people find it a lot easier to see with (what I would call) proper lighting. There might be a slight cost saving because the bulbs last for longer but unlikely.

View attachment 83095
The IETs would have been perfect to try a Boeing Sky interior style set up as some are the LEDs are in similar places.
Even Ryanair has it so it can't be that expensive!

Now that I would love to see!

 

[py_megapixel]

View attachment 83095
The IETs would have been perfect to try a Boeing Sky interior style set up as some are the LEDs are in similar places.
Even Ryanair has it so it can't be that expensive!

Now that I would love to see!

Personally I hate that blue colour...

 

[SussexLad]

I know the rules for buses are LEDs, at least 50% of the lights have to work, must cover the entire bus etc. I know that becuase one of my old scout leaders worked at the DFT when that was set.

Personally I hate that blue colour...

It makes me feel happy and sleepy.

 

[AlexNL]

LED lighting is more energy efficient and the lamps have a much longer lifetime than other light sources do, using those makes sense. LED lighting technology has improved significantly over the years and costs have gone down significantly (just look at what some RYET bulbs costs at IKEA, practically nothing).

In Germany, the new ICE4 trains have intelligent lighting which adapts to the time of day: the lights are more blue in the morning, turn white-ish during daytime and change to a cozy reddish hue when the sun goes down. This should help passengers feel comfortable as the light is adapted to be more in sync with their biological clock, rather than just having bright cold lights throughout the day.

Why the GWR IEP and LNER Azuma trains don't have something like this, is probably down to how long the procurement has taken and the unusual/controversial way in which the trains themselves are provided. When the trains were specced the tech wasn't that widely available yet, by the time the ink on the contracts had dried it was but getting intelligent lighting fitted at that stage would've been a contract variation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Why the GWR IEP and LNER Azuma trains don't have something like this, is probably down to how long the procurement has taken and the unusual/controversial way in which the trains themselves are provided. When the trains were specced the tech wasn't that widely available yet, by the time the ink on the contracts had dried it was but getting intelligent lighting fitted at that stage would've been a contract variation.

Would be a nice opportunity to retrofit it to the Pendolinos during refurbishment. If popular it could be retrofitted elsewhere.

I don't find the 80x bad, to be honest. There are cheaper, nastier LEDs on other units, such as the entire Northern fleet. The 155s are the worst - there's basically a floodlight shining in your face if you face one end.

 

[py_megapixel]

Would be a nice opportunity to retrofit it to the Pendolinos during refurbishment. If popular it could be retrofitted elsewhere.

I don't find the 80x bad, to be honest. There are cheaper, nastier LEDs on other units, such as the entire Northern fleet. The 155s are the worst - there's basically a floodlight shining in your face if you face one end.

I think even the worst LEDs beat the nasty yellow flourescent tubes that most of the Northern fleet had beforehand.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think even the worst LEDs beat the nasty yellow flourescent tubes that most of the Northern fleet had beforehand.

Definitely and absolutely not. Northern have ordered a job lot of "fake tubes" with nasty blue daylight colour lighting (see the FGW HST lighting which is the absolute worst to ever disgrace any UK rail vehicle), including the "floodlight in your face" on the 155s, they are horribly stark particularly on most units that don't have any diffusers. The same lighting is fitted in the same context on the 313s used on the Moorgate line (all gone now?) It really is truly awful.

The 80x lighting is maybe a bit bright but is a neutral, pure white colour and is indirect, so is well-diffused.

Speaking more widely, at least the railway hasn't used the cheapest ones, which tend to pulse at 50Hz. Those give me a headache; if they were installed on any train I'd have to stop using it. Probably an issue for some epileptics, too. Imagine the entire interior lit with the level of flicker you get on 80x interior information displays and it'd give you an idea.

 

[DarloRich]

LED are cheaper, more energy effecient and have a longer life. It is a no brainer.

Also makes the interior much less dingy. Much better than a pendo

 

[Bletchleyite]

LED are cheaper, more energy effecient and have a longer life. It is a no brainer.

Certainly. My house is nearly all LED as a result (GU10 warm white spots, so lovely and cosy).

Also makes the interior much less dingy. Much better than a pendo

Will be interesting to see what level of lighting the Pendo refurbs have - or indeed the tarted-up Voyagers.

 

[py_megapixel]

LED are cheaper, more energy effecient and have a longer life. It is a no brainer.

Indeed. Except for some very specialist applications, LEDs are essentially the electrical light source of the modern world. Before long, anything at all which produces light will use LEDs.

The problem is that TOCs (or in this case the DfT) are speccing really awful cold LEDS which make travelling on a train feel like some kind of medical examination rather than a pleasant journey.

This is a solved problem. LEDs can be pretty much any colour you like these days - just use warm white ones

 

[Camden]

It's simply poor design choice, with the wrong temperature bulbs being chosen.

It used to be the case that with LEDs you were stuck with blue light or no light, but no longer.

 

[Parallel]

GWR have switched virtually everything to LED now, fortunately the lamps on most of the units are behind diffusers so it’s fairly well distributed. They had the stark glarey exposed LED lamps when they ran the 150/1s though. The 150/0s has these lamps installed facing upwards which was quite a nice trick to soften the brightness a bit.

I believe SWR and TfW still use fluorescent tubes on most of their units. I much prefer the colour tone of these than most LEDs though it looked a bit ridiculous in GWR’s 158s before refurb as many of the lamps had different colour tones. Some more peachy, some warm white, some bright white and some with a slight blue tinge!

Speaking of which, my county still has a large amount of low pressure sodium street lighting on roads and footpaths (The ones that turn on pink then go orange) which will have to be replaced with LED lighting over the next year or so as those lamps are now obsolete!

 

[broadgage]

Yes, low pressure sodium lamps are now obsolete. They used to be manufactured by several companies, but more recently the Hamilton factory of Philips UK was the only source of these lamps. It closed last year. There are still some lamps on the shelves of stockists, but production has ceased.

Returning to train lighting, LEDs are the future and production of other lamps might cease in the expected life of new trains.
Cool white LEDs are sometimes cheaper or more efficient than warm white lamps, but the difference is marginal, and there is no real reason why warm white lamps could not be used.

If I was designing new trains I would install the lights only along one side of the gangway. The light would spread out to an extent but one side would be much brighter than the other. Passengers could then sit to left or right of the aisle according to preference.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I believe SWR and TfW still use fluorescent tubes on most of their units. I much prefer the colour tone of these than most LEDs though it looked a bit ridiculous in GWR’s 158s before refurb as many of the lamps had different colour tones. Some more peachy, some warm white, some bright white and some with a slight blue tinge!

I do find that a sign of lack of attention to detail - "oh, just bang that one in, it'll do".

 

[Mintona]

I don’t think I’ve ever boarded a train and thought that the lights were adding or taking anything from the experience. I don’t even notice them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I don’t think I’ve ever boarded a train and thought that the lights were adding or taking anything from the experience. I don’t even notice them.

Ever tried an old FGW HST? (Not in their short Westcountry form, the lighting has been replaced)

 

[py_megapixel]

Ever tried an old FGW HST? (Not in their short Westcountry form, the lighting has been replaced)

I have, and I never really liked the interior feel. But I put that down to FirstGroup's rather unpleasant interior colour scheme. Perhaps I was wrong.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have, and I never really liked the interior feel. But I put that down to FirstGroup's rather unpleasant interior colour scheme. Perhaps I was wrong.

The horrid blueish light went with the nasty purple panelling to make it particularly unpleasant - shame because the actual seats (Gr*mmer) were excellent.

It was notable that the light was so blue that it made a cloudy day over Slough look warm and welcoming. Maybe the Slough Tourist Board had to do with it Technically the colour is "daylight white", but in most weather conditions actual daylight is much warmer.

 

[py_megapixel]

The horrid blueish light went with the nasty purple panelling to make it particularly unpleasant -

I am glad that the days of FirstGroup plastering everything they touched with purple and pink are behind us.

shame because the actual seats (Gr*mmer) were excellent.

Have you deliberately censored that? Never seen that name censored before.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am glad that the days of FirstGroup plastering everything they touched with purple and pink are behind us.

I quite liked Dynamic Lines and the deep blue seats, but yeah, everything else(f) was nasty(f).

Have you deliberately censored that? Never seen that name censored before.

Yes, I did, was joking as I usually get accused of working for their marketing department!

 

[LSWR Cavalier]

Lamps are often burning unnecessarily
Natural light should be used as far as possible, if train interiors were white less artificial light would be needed

 

[py_megapixel]

Lamps are often burning unnecessarily
Natural light should be used as far as possible, if train interiors were white less artificial light would be needed

This would require larger windows, which would compromise structural integrity.
Manchester Metrolink vehicles have huge windows and white interiors, and the lights still have to come on in dark sections.

 

[StephenHunter]

I don’t think I’ve ever boarded a train and thought that the lights were adding or taking anything from the experience. I don’t even notice them.

The BR Mark 1's lights are a reminder of their vintage.

 

[DelW]

The BR Mark 1's lights are a reminder of their vintage.

A few years ago I spent an evening riding on the Severn Valley during one of their all night running galas. The combination of incandescent bulbs in the coaches and on the platforms, and steam from locos and heating pipes, was really atmospheric and felt very cosy on an autumnal evening. I appreciate there are different regulations now, but modern train and station lighting is very harsh and cold by comparison.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A few years ago I spent an evening riding on the Severn Valley during one of their all night running galas. The combination of incandescent bulbs in the coaches and on the platforms, and steam from locos and heating pipes, was really atmospheric and felt very cosy on an autumnal evening. I appreciate there are different regulations now, but modern train and station lighting is very harsh and cold by comparison.

It can be. I know others will call it dingy, but I find the Pendolino's subdued warm white with spots to be quite nice and cosy myself.

 

[Non Multi]

I am glad that the days of FirstGroup plastering everything they touched with purple and pink are behind us.

Hull Trains still use that colour palette in their new 'Paragon' fleet, so it certainly hasn't gone away.