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'Leeds Bradford Airport Parkway' Consultation (2021)

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Halifaxlad

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Just to let folk know that WYCA are consulting on the proposed/planned Leeds Bradford Airport Parkway.

The consultation can be found here:


This one closes on the 21st February 2021!

I was going to post this in the 'Proposal for a new Bradford-Leeds Airport Parkway Station (on existing line) thread but that has long since been closed.

 
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YorksLad12

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Eee... I remember when consultations on major infrastructure projects took 13 weeks... and rightly so. Even bus service changes got at least six weeks. Am I old now?
 

swt_passenger

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Eee... I remember when consultations on major infrastructure projects took 13 weeks... and rightly so. Even bus service changes got at least six weeks. Am I old now?
It’s not really a full consultation is it? It’s part of a sequence that’s already happened. And is a station on an existing line really a “major infrastructure project” anyway?
 

Halifaxlad

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It’s not really a full consultation is it? It’s part of a sequence that’s already happened. And is a station on an existing line really a “major infrastructure project” anyway?
The plans have been updated and they are consulting on those. Admittedly they're no major changes unlike the plans for Halifax Station that have changed enormously since WYCA last consulted on them.
 

YorksLad12

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It’s not really a full consultation is it? It’s part of a sequence that’s already happened. And is a station on an existing line really a “major infrastructure project” anyway?

The plans have been updated and they are consulting on those. Admittedly they're no major changes unlike the plans for Halifax Station that have changed enormously since WYCA last consulted on them.

Fair enough. Not really a consultation then, more a heads-up of what they will be doing, even if there a 100% opinion against. ;)
I'd call it a "major" project, in that it's going to cost £42m (which I will be contributing towards, as a Leeds council tax-payer) and there will be line closures during the build (I would assume); it's not a car park extension or new shelters, so "major" rather than "minor" to me.
 

johntea

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How does this cost £42 million when East Midlands Parkway cost £25 million with 850 car parking spaces compared to 350?!

I also don’t think the airport link is as a big deal as they always seem to make out with bus connections already in place from Bradford and Leeds, yes they get stuck in traffic but you’re always advised to arrive at the airport in good time so just plan that in, and unlike Manchester the terminal building at LBA is TINY so not like you’re rushing around after security!

Anyone really desperate just goes to Horsforth then sorts out a taxi, most people that I know that go on holiday sack off public transport altogether and just book a taxi from their front door to the airport and vice versa anyway!
 

Bald Rick

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Part of it will be inflation.

£25.5m at 2008 prices will be nudging £40m in 2024 in construction price terms. At this stage of estimating there will also be large allowances for contingency.
 

quantinghome

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Anyone got any idea why this is four times as expensive as Horden station?
Looks like some pretty heavy civil engineering is needed - check the height of the retaining walls. Plus the station structure seems to be using the country's entire supply of corten steel.
 

willgreen

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It's a much different station and the land prices also could be higher
I'd agree that the land prices will be higher, but not four times higher; and if the civils are going to be so expensive, why build a station at all? The wooden decking days may be over but I'm sure WYCA could still afford at least two stations with £42m.
 

Halifaxlad

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Don't forget it is also deep down in a cutting, especially with the weight of all that steel its probably going to need some serious piling!
 

willgreen

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Don't forget it is also deep down in a cutting, especially with the weight of all that steel its probably going to need some serious piling!
Obviously the station will require piling in this location but it does raise the question of why it's being built for this price. Will this be the most expensive two-platform station ever? (Meridian Water - in London - cost £46m with three platforms and a huge main building).
 

Spartacus

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I suspect, like the White Rose Centre station, it's got a lot to do with the proposed Leeds clean air zone (The White Rose Centre was originally within the zones boundaries. The boundaries were changed when the WRC objected as it would probably put them out of business), which would make driving across Leeds to get to LBA a big no-no for many people, when travel to Manchester is almost as easy by car, and easier by public transport. I don't think for a second that LBA really needs a station, especially one that still needs a transfer to the airport (though you can't get it closer on a realistic budget), but there's been pressure for a long time, and I think the clean air zone's pushed it over the edge, if only privately. Notice it's now a Parkway, and lies outside the planned clean air zone.....
 

quantinghome

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I suspect, like the White Rose Centre station, it's got a lot to do with the proposed Leeds clean air zone (The White Rose Centre was originally within the zones boundaries. The boundaries were changed when the WRC objected as it would probably put them out of business), which would make driving across Leeds to get to LBA a big no-no for many people, when travel to Manchester is almost as easy by car, and easier by public transport. I don't think for a second that LBA really needs a station, especially one that still needs a transfer to the airport (though you can't get it closer on a realistic budget), but there's been pressure for a long time, and I think the clean air zone's pushed it over the edge, if only privately. Notice it's now a Parkway, and lies outside the planned clean air zone.....
The CAZ has been cancelled last I heard.

The parkway station is basically a P&R in disguise. It will also provide access to a proposed new employment hub. It will be of benefit to some airport passengers and staff but if it wasn't for the other reasons it probably wouldn't be happening.

I suspect a lot of the cost is due to the very heavy architecture to make it a 'landmark gateway building'. I only hope that the airport is paying for the excess cost over and above what is needed for a functional, code-compliant design.
 

Halifaxlad

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Some interesting questions and answers taken from the consultation website!

How will airport passengers connect between the Parkway Station and airport terminal?

It is anticipated that a shuttle bus will be used to transport passengers between the Parkway Station and the airport terminal. Leeds City Council is currently exploring connectivity options to ensure that passengers can get to and from the airport with ease and confidence, with a desire to make the mode of transport environmentally friendly. This could be a shuttle bus or semi-autonomous vehicle that will operate between the Parkway Station and airport terminal, using a dedicated pick-up point in front of the station building. Work is ongoing to identify the most effective mode of transport and travel route, alongside what improvements are needed to deliver these requirements. The proposed additions/changes will be the subject of future consultation by Leeds City Council.

What is the anticipated journey time between the Parkway Station and terminal building for passengers?

Routing options are being considered through the Connectivity Study being progressed by Leeds City Council, though it is anticipated that the journey time will be approximately 5 minutes.

What train services will call at the station?

Development of a suitable timetable for train services on this route is due to commence and will be a continuous process throughout the development of this project. Our current intention is to achieve a minimum of a two trains per hour service pattern at this location, with an aspiration to deliver a four trains per hour service. The Combined Authority will continue to work with the relevant train operators and Transport for the North to deliver the most appropriate timetable that meets the needs of passengers based on the network capacity, availability and suitability of the rolling stock.

Will the station be staffed?

Based on the anticipated footfall, the station will be categorised as a staffed station with station building. The provision of staff at the station, however, is a commercial decision for the operator. The Combined Authority will be working closely with the operator to ensure that a suitable level of staff presence could be provided to the proposed station.

What passenger waiting facilities will the station have?

Sheltered passenger areas will be provided on both platforms. Subject to affordability, the proposed plans include a station building with the potential to accommodate an additional waiting area.

How many carriages will the platforms be able to accommodate? Will this be able to cater for future growth?

Platforms are currently designed to accommodate 6-car trains which will be sufficient to meet the requirements of the proposed services.

Who will be responsible for operating and managing the station?

It is envisaged that Northern will operate and manage the station. As the station is further developed this may change and will be reviewed as part of the wider considerations for the Combined Authority.

Why can’t the old railway line between Otley and Leeds via Yeadon be reopened?

Whilst the disused railway line between Otley and Leeds remains largely intact, reopening disused railway line requires significant capital and revenue funding which is not available at the moment. At present, the Combined Authority has no plans for reopening this line and we are developing a new station to serve Leeds Bradford Airport which is more affordable.
However, we will in due course be developing a new rail policy and reviewing network gaps, including reopening lines, new stations, services and infrastructure will be part of the Combined Authority’s considerations.
 

D6130

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Why can’t the old railway line between Otley and Leeds via Yeadon be reopened?
There never was a railway from Otley to Leeds via Yeadon. Otley station was situated on the short East-West link line between Burley-in-Wharfedale on the Leeds/Bradford - Ilkley line and Arthington on the Leeds - Harrogate line, with a triangular junction at each end, permitting the operation of circular services from both Leeds and Bradford Forster Square. Yeadon was the terminus of a steeply-graded single track branch from Guiseley on the Ilkley line, the junction for which unfortunately faced the wrong way (i.e. towards Ilkley, instead of Leeds). A railway from Otley to Yeadon and then on to Leeds would have had to be either rack-and-pinion operated, or built in a series of switchbacks like the Darjeeling Railway, due to the presence of the high, steep escarpment known as Otley Chevin.

While I am generally in favour of building new stations - especially intermodal interchanges - I can't help feeling that this project would be a massive waste of money. For the sake of an extra three-quarters of a mile, the existing Horsforth station could be developed into an airport interchange for a fraction of the cost of the new one. It has an existing crossover and turnback siding which could be used for additional airport services and space for an enlarged car park and bus interchange. The site of the proposed new station is at the bottom of a deep cutting with known flooding issues, which is probably the reason why it would be so expensive. The money saved by using Horsforth would probably pay most of the cost of electrification from Armley Junction to Horsforth. Has this scheme really been thought through properly?
 
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Spartacus

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The CAZ has been cancelled last I heard.

The parkway station is basically a P&R in disguise. It will also provide access to a proposed new employment hub. It will be of benefit to some airport passengers and staff but if it wasn't for the other reasons it probably wouldn't be happening.

I suspect a lot of the cost is due to the very heavy architecture to make it a 'landmark gateway building'. I only hope that the airport is paying for the excess cost over and above what is needed for a functional, code-compliant design.

I think COVID's seen to it, at least in the short term, what happens in the long term is anyone's guess, but I'd be surprised if it didn't make a comeback before very long. What I'd say is that just because the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of viability has gone away, doesn't mend the camel's back. It's probably more than many politician's careers are worth to cancel such projects after they've been committed to, especially in the current climate when I expect more than usual may be nervous at election time
 

matacaster

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There never was a railway from Otley to Leeds via Yeadon. Otley station was situated on the short East-West link line between Burley-in-Wharfedale on the Leeds/Bradford - Ilkley line and Arthington on the Leeds - Harrogate line, with a triangular junction at each end, permitting the operation of circular services from both Leeds and Bradford Forster Square. Yeadon was the terminus of a steeply-graded single track branch from Guiseley on the Ilkley line, the junction for which unfortunately faced the wrong way (i.e. towards Ilkley, instead of Leeds). A railway from Otley to Yeadon and then on to Leeds would have had to be either rack-and-pinion operated, or built in a series of switchbacks like the Darjeeling Railway, due to the presence of the high, steep escarpment known as Otley Chevin.

While I am generally in favour of building new stations - especially intermodal interchanges - I can't help feeling that this project would be a massive waste of money. For the sake of an extra three-quarters of a mile, the existing Horsforth station could be developed into an airport interchange for a fraction of the cost of the new one. It has an existing crossover and turnback siding which could be used for additional airport services and space for an enlarged car park and bus interchange. The site of the proposed new station is at the bottom of a deep cutting with known flooding issues, which is probably the reason why it would be so expensive. The money saved by using Horsforth would probably pay most of the cost of electrification from Armley Junction to Horsforth. Has this scheme really been thought through properly?
A tunnel from Horsforth line to ilkley line going under the airport would provide a proper station for the airport. Whilst the existing public transport to airport from pretty much anywhere is dire in the extreme (can't believe anybody uses it), paying a vast amount for a halt in the middle of nowhere with attendant problems of car theft, vandalism and no open facilities in evening one presumes is bonkers. At least Horsforth Station is frequented and near civilisation.
 

Spartacus

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A tunnel from Horsforth line to ilkley line going under the airport would provide a proper station for the airport......

.... and probably cost at least £1bn, a simple tunnel from Horsforth to a station terminus has been costed at £350-£400m. Something for the speculation/'Scrooge McDuck Money' thread.
 

quantinghome

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While I am generally in favour of building new stations - especially intermodal interchanges - I can't help feeling that this project would be a massive waste of money. For the sake of an extra three-quarters of a mile, the existing Horsforth station could be developed into an airport interchange for a fraction of the cost of the new one. It has an existing crossover and turnback siding which could be used for additional airport services and space for an enlarged car park and bus interchange. The site of the proposed new station is at the bottom of a deep cutting with known flooding issues, which is probably the reason why it would be so expensive. The money saved by using Horsforth would probably pay most of the cost of electrification from Armley Junction to Horsforth. Has this scheme really been thought through properly?

Horsforth has been looked at according to the FAQ:

The option of serving Horsforth rail station with an airport shuttle bus service was previously considered. The overall journey time of this option is less attractive than a Leeds Bradford Airport Parkway Station option. Also, due to the constraints of the local highway network near Horsforth station, it would be a challenge to provide a reliable shuttle bus service between Horsforth station and Leeds Bradford Airport. Whilst it may be feasible to operate a bus link between Horsforth station and Leeds Bradford Airport, doing so would not meet all the objectives of the Parkway Station.

The Parkway Station will also serve as a park and ride station, offering commuters and other travellers greater opportunity to travel to town and city centres without having to use their cars for the entire journey. This requires a car parking facility, currently shown at 350 spaces in outline designs for Leeds Bradford Airport Parkway Station. Horsforth station currently has 69 spaces and work to investigate options to increase parking facilities here showed only 10 additional spaces could be achieved without the acquisition of third-party land. The investigation also showed that it is not possible to make the required highway improvements that would allow safe or efficient operation of a much larger car park at Horsforth station without major impact on listed buildings at the entrance to Horsforth station and on the junction between Station Road and Troy Road which provides access to the station.

Another objective of Leeds Bradford Airport Parkway Station is to improve connectivity for existing and proposed businesses operating in and around Leeds Bradford Airport including to support delivery of the proposed employment hub on land adjacent to the airport. An improved Horsforth station is unlikely to be as attractive to these businesses compared with a new station located closer to their operations.

One other significant consideration is the passenger facilities at Horsforth station, which do not match the expectation identified by stakeholders for the Parkway Station. In order to achieve the specification for a Parkway Station, Horsforth would require significant improvements to its passenger facilities and again, the space available suggests that this would be very challenging.

I think COVID's seen to it, at least in the short term, what happens in the long term is anyone's guess, but I'd be surprised if it didn't make a comeback before very long. What I'd say is that just because the straw that broke the camel's back in terms of viability has gone away, doesn't mend the camel's back. It's probably more than many politician's careers are worth to cancel such projects after they've been committed to, especially in the current climate when I expect more than usual may be nervous at election time
I understand it was more that buses and other vehicles have been upgraded to low emission models thus fulfilling the purposes of the CAZ. It's been estimated that pollution levels will be compliant with legislation even after COVID is over and traffic is back to normal.

Leeds clean air zone plans set to be scrapped - BBC News
 

Halifaxlad

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.... and probably cost at least £1bn, a simple tunnel from Horsforth to a station terminus has been costed at £350-£400m. Something for the speculation/'Scrooge McDuck Money' thread.

Once NPHR is underway it may be possible to bring that down significantly by using one of their TBM's.
 

quantinghome

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Once NPHR is underway it may be possible to bring that down significantly by using one of their TBM's.
TBMs are rarely reused - they're generally knackered once they've done what they're designed for. Besides, TBM purchase will be a small fraction of overall costs for a tunnelling project.
 

bluenoxid

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Could fool me with the amount of roadworks continuing to take place to reduce vehicle movements in the city centre.

The current works are funded by the Leeds Public Transport Investment Programme, which is not connected to the CAZ. Works will get worse as other funding pots come on stream.

Park and Ride has proven popular in Leeds. North West Leeds struggles because of the limited number of corridors to move through.
 
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