Leeds Park & Ride

[yorksrob]

The trouble with Leeds is the planners have their heads full of grand schemes that they have no money for and just waste time. Trams, trolleybuses, guided buses, anything but the cheap and cheerful simple bus.

The result is millions squandered on studies but nothing to show for it, as this thread reveals.

Yet a simple trip to York, Durham or Scarborough would show them the solution. Could probably do all three in one day-no need for any fancy foreign jaunts.

Thus a big car park by the motorway on the south side to serve all the cars streaming up the M1 every day, with buses then running into the city centre. Similarly something in the m62 j27/Morley area.
Ditto something by the a64 for traffic from the east, something by the grammar school for the north, cross link the buses and job done.


With regard to the White Rose Centre , that needs a railway station in view of all the visitors and employment both there and the neighbouring office park. Would generate a lot more new passenger journeys that the proposed carbunkle new south entrance at Leeds City station

To be honest, Leeds is only attempting to do what other cities have done. However, governments in London have a habit of cancelling the funding half way through, wasting all of the money spent thus far.

Hopefully they'll get one of the park and ride stations between Leeds and Shipley up and running fairly soon. I like the idea of the White Rose station. Could utilize some spare off-peak capacity on the bins.

 

[4SRKT]

That would be very useful for me certainly and many of us there have said it but with the very close proximity of Cottingley and Morley, it is probably usfeasible unless there is say a shuttle service between Leeds and WRC

Close Cottingley and resite at the WRC? It only has an hourly service off peak anyway, so the via Brighouse trains can stop at WRC and provide extra calls.

 

[Grumpy]

To be honest, Leeds is only attempting to do what other cities have done. However, governments in London have a habit of cancelling the funding half way through, wasting all of the money spent thus far.

Hopefully they'll get one of the park and ride stations between Leeds and Shipley up and running fairly soon. I like the idea of the White Rose station. Could utilize some spare off-peak capacity on the bins.

The end result of all their posturing is that none of their high profile vanity schemes has been implemented and the muggins traveller suffers. They could probably get several bus-based park and rides running for the cost of one of the proposed Aire Valley stations.

 

[yorksrob]

The end result of all their posturing is that none of their high profile vanity schemes has been implemented and the muggins traveller suffers. They could probably get several bus-based park and rides running for the cost of one of the proposed Aire Valley stations.

If only the railway could come up with a cheap "Workington North" type flat pack station, they might be able to offer a quicker, less traffic bound park and ride solution than the bus.

 

[WestCoast]

If only the railway could come up with a cheap "Workington North" type flat pack station, they might be able to offer a quicker, less traffic bound park and ride solution than the bus.

I think rail based park & ride schemes are more attractive, when cities have congestion issues with park & ride buses. Examples of this can be found looking at the extensive bus based park & ride systems in Cambridge and York, they can still involve slow transfers even with bus priority schemes e.t.c.

 

[yorksrob]

I think rail based park & ride schemes are more attractive, when cities have congestion issues with park & ride buses. Examples of this can be found looking at the extensive bus based park & ride systems in Cambridge and York, they can still involve slow transfers even with bus priority schemes e.t.c.

Yes indeed. I actually use the bus around Leeds quite a lot as it goes to places that simply aren't served by the railway and it strikes me that they often take quite a while to negotiate the middle of the city. That said, I have found bus based park and rides to work well in certain places (such as Canterbury for example) and one for the North East approach to Leeds (making use of the busway along York Road) could certainly improve the situation as well.

 

[Grumpy]

That would be very useful for me certainly and many of us there have said it but with the very close proximity of Cottingley and Morley, it is probably usfeasible unless there is say a shuttle service between Leeds and WRC

Meadowhall station has approx 1.8 million users pa (2009/10 stats). The White Rose shopping centre has approx 60% of the visitors who go to the Meadowhall shopping centre. A simple pro rata would give approx 1.1m users of a White Rose station pa. Add in the potential users from the nearby office park and you have a useful number. I accept this is very crude but you have to start somewhere. Like Meadowhall there are several bus routes to the WRC so you have the makings of a decent hub. Lots of the users would be filling off peak trains (shoppers) or contra flow (workers travelling out from Leeds). So potentially lucrative.
Put into perspective 1.1m is more than all the users of all the stations combined between Leeds and Huddersfield (Dewsbury apart). Cottingley is 77k. Surely the railway should be aiming for the big market.

 

[Max]

Garforth is the best place to park for Leeds. Cheap fares, pretty frequent service (including 1 TPE/hour) and a large free car park. Also, just off the M1.

 

[4SRKT]

Garforth is the best place to park for Leeds. Cheap fares, pretty frequent service (including 1 TPE/hour) and a large free car park. Also, just off the M1.

And all the spaces taken up by residents of North Yorkshire leaching off the PTE fares [partly] subsidised by West Yorkshire. Ditto Steeton & Silsden.

 

[WestCoast]

And all the spaces taken up by residents of North Yorkshire leaching off the PTE fares [partly] subsidised by West Yorkshire. Ditto Steeton & Silsden.

I used Steeton & Silsden on a Sunday morning last December. I could have been at London Bridge in the evening rush hour with the amount of shoppers on the platform!

 

[bluenoxid]

That would be very useful for me certainly and many of us there have said it but with the very close proximity of Cottingley and Morley, it is probably usfeasible unless there is say a shuttle service between Leeds and WRC

A possible idea is to link the lines between the Wakefield and Huddersfield lines with a single track section and a station on it. The train can then run a small loop calling at Cottingley and the White Rose Centre. It has two benefits. One, Hudds stoppers can be extended and WRC gets a rail service.

Personally, I would use the Vickers factory to create a park and ride. Right off Junc 46 of the M1 then push a link road right over the railway to the factory site. Massive car park with a set of platforms. A large station with platforms on slow lines and a large island between the fasts which is ready for 16 carriage trains. Yes, it will dwarf the 142 sitting in the platform but it will be HS2 ready.

 

[4SRKT]

A large station with platforms on slow lines and a large island between the fasts which is ready for 16 carriage trains. Yes, it will dwarf the 142 sitting in the platform but it will be HS2 ready.

This section isn't 4 track.

 

[lancastrian]

Theres a proposal for an "East Leeds Parkway" at, or very near to, the site of the current Micklefield station.

Seems a no-brainer. Right next to the motorway, and a frequent service of Northern and TPE trains to get you into Leeds in about 15 mins.

So obviously it will never be built.

You are SO RIGHT in your accessment, obviously politicans seems to be unable to grasp common sense and practical ideas. I also heard that it was intended to electrify the line from Leeds to here, does anyone know if this was true?

 

[Max]

And all the spaces taken up by residents of North Yorkshire leaching off the PTE fares [partly] subsidised by West Yorkshire. Ditto Steeton & Silsden.

I have never had a problem finding a space there. Although I admit it can be a challenge sometimes!

 

[Crossforth]

You are SO RIGHT in your accessment, obviously politicans seems to be unable to grasp common sense and practical ideas. I also heard that it was intended to electrify the line from Leeds to here, does anyone know if this was true?

I gather that they are meant to be electrifying the line from Leeds to Hambleton Junction and to Colton Junction

 

[bluenoxid]

This section isn't 4 track.

At the moment

4 tracks can roll from Crossgates to near Garforth with little effort.

Electrifying Leeds-York is a wasted effort unless they put further loops and/or capacity enhancements in.

 

[lancastrian]

I gather that they are meant to be electrifying the line from Leeds to Hambleton Junction and to Colton Junction

Well I really hope that they do this, it would be a great help in getting the whole of the Trans-Pennine services electrified.

 

[Crossforth]

Well I really hope that they do this, it would be a great help in getting the whole of the Trans-Pennine services electrified.

It would also be a good diversionary route for the East Coast Mainline

 

[4SRKT]

Electrifying Leeds-York is a wasted effort unless they put further loops and/or capacity enhancements in.

Ending this sentence after the word 'effort' would make a lot more sense to me.

 

[142094]

You are SO RIGHT in your accessment, obviously politicans seems to be unable to grasp common sense and practical ideas. I also heard that it was intended to electrify the line from Leeds to here, does anyone know if this was true?

Funding for this would be from DfT or Network Rail - no reason for Metro to fund something where parts of it will be out of their geographical remit.

I'm sure everyone will appreciate that with the Spending Review that PTEs have had to cut costs (including cutting staff numbers), so investment from central Government, the EU and private companies is essential for new schemes.

 

[burty76]

Meadowhall station has approx 1.8 million users pa (2009/10 stats). The White Rose shopping centre has approx 60% of the visitors who go to the Meadowhall shopping centre. A simple pro rata would give approx 1.1m users of a White Rose station pa. Add in the potential users from the nearby office park and you have a useful number. I accept this is very crude but you have to start somewhere. Like Meadowhall there are several bus routes to the WRC so you have the makings of a decent hub. Lots of the users would be filling off peak trains (shoppers) or contra flow (workers travelling out from Leeds). So potentially lucrative.
Put into perspective 1.1m is more than all the users of all the stations combined between Leeds and Huddersfield (Dewsbury apart). Cottingley is 77k. Surely the railway should be aiming for the big market.

I agree with the idea of closing Cottingley and opening a station at WRC. But I think you may exaggerate the number of potential users.
Meadowhall has 9 or 10 trains an hour to Sheffield. WRC could only have two to Leeds (TPE wouldnt stop there so close to Leeds). Also Meadowhall is an interchange for passengers switching between the Barnsley and the Doncaster lines.
Its a good idea in principle but nowhere near as potentially revenue earning as East Leeds Parkway.

 

[Grumpy]

I agree with the idea of closing Cottingley and opening a station at WRC. But I think you may exaggerate the number of potential users.
Meadowhall has 9 or 10 trains an hour to Sheffield. WRC could only have two to Leeds (TPE wouldnt stop there so close to Leeds). Also Meadowhall is an interchange for passengers switching between the Barnsley and the Doncaster lines.
Its a good idea in principle but nowhere near as potentially revenue earning as East Leeds Parkway.

You may well be right about passenger numbers-I have absolutely no scientific way of working it out and admit the method I used was crude.
However I dont think it's a bad starting point. I accept the comments re present number of trains. However if you opened this more trains would call. Thus I cant see why TPE wouldn't stop-they stop at Meadowhall and that's close to Sheffield. Similarly they stop at the likes of Garforth and Cross Gates despite being close to Leeds. And why not-if I lived in South/West Leeds and wanted to go to Manchester the option of free parking at the WRC then hopping on a train would be much more attractive than travelling into Central Leeds to catch the train.

Whilst I can see the attractions of an East Leeds Parkway I cant see the latter having greater revenue potential. Thus who would want to take the train to it as a destination? Practically no-one compared to WRC. Yes they might park there and catch the train into Leeds-but so they would at WRC.

 

[maddeningcrowds]

the option of free parking at the WRC then hopping on a train would be much more attractive than travelling into Central Leeds to catch the train

There is already severe overcrowing in the White Rose Centre car park, for it to work as a "park and ride" they'd need to double the existing car park. Absolute nightmare particularly on Saturdays and all of December.

Also not sure how this would work financially. The car park is free because the only thing there is the shopping. The shopping centre wouldn't want to finance free parking for people leaving rather than arriving.

 

[bluenoxid]

Ending this sentence after the word 'effort' would make a lot more sense to me.

None of the existing services that operate on the Leeds - York line are capable of a switch over to electric traction if Leeds - York is electrified. Many talk about the Horseshoe that could be done with London trains but this requires the TOC's to slide more trains through a reasonably congested two track section, which is already facing more demand from XC and TPE who want to put extra service through it and £50 million is an expensive diversionary route.

 

[YorkshireRider]

None of the existing services that operate on the Leeds - York line are capable of a switch over to electric traction if Leeds - York is electrified. Many talk about the Horseshoe that could be done with London trains but this requires the TOC's to slide more trains through a reasonably congested two track section, which is already facing more demand from XC and TPE who want to put extra service through it and £50 million is an expensive diversionary route.

Im sure about 6 years ago this almost got the go ahead with GNER planning to run half of a planned new timetable via it. But much to their annoyance it got shelfed due to lack of funds.

 

[Grumpy]

There is already severe overcrowing in the White Rose Centre car park, for it to work as a "park and ride" they'd need to double the existing car park. Absolute nightmare particularly on Saturdays and all of December.

Also not sure how this would work financially. The car park is free because the only thing there is the shopping. The shopping centre wouldn't want to finance free parking for people leaving rather than arriving.

You're right. I dont know about doubling but agree it would need more spaces. My assumption was that at weekends there would be much reduced demand for parking there to commute into Leeds ie the weekday commuters would use parking spaces needed for the weekend shopping peak.

Similarly I agree the shopping centre wouldn't want to do anything not in its interest. However I believe a station would bring in longer distance shoppers who dont currently use it, and some of those using as a park and ride would inevitably nip in to do some shopping. The real tragedy is that the Local Authority planners could have made the provision of a station and parking at the developer's expense as a condition of the original planning permission.