Leicester-Burton line

[Bald Rick]

Given the salary of goods wagon drivers at the moment, it would take a lot for people to switch.

It wouldnt. Margins in the rail freight business are next to non existent.

Freight will be net losers out of this line reopneing to passenger services, with or without a west to north chord at Knighton, due to the loss of timing flexibility for their services on the line.

 

[Mr. SW]

This may amuse. There's a load of prattle going on, but you can see the remains of Moira and Ashby Stations and the results of subsidence. 1990.

 

[Pigeon]

Then there's the demolition costs, site remediation, and so on. All told, I'd be surprised if just getting a clean canvas to start building the 1/4 mile of new railway would be less than £30m.

OK, that's a bit more than I was expecting but not a lot.

 

[HOOVER29]

Took these two photos of the line during a walk last weekend
First one is towards Lounge junction
Second is towards Moira/Burton

 

[Mr. SW]

Part two video.

Again, prattle.

 

[Elybob]

Ivanhoe Line reopening campaigners ask for election candidates' support

The Campaign for the Re-Opening of the Ivanhoe Line urge local parliamentary candidates to pledge their support ahead of the general election.

www.railadvent.co.uk

The Campaign for the Re-opening of the Ivanhoe Line urge local parliamentary candidates to pledge their support ahead of the general election.

Seems like this is a real possibility now which would be great for the area. As someone who lives in Ashby, I've seen how horrendous the A511 gets in the morning commute

Is there anyone closer to the project that knows if there's been a resolution to the Leicester cord problem?

 

[zwk500]

Is there anyone closer to the project that knows if there's been a resolution to the Leicester cord problem?

Resolution might be stretching the description, proposal is for a Derby-Coalville service only.

Extending the Ivanhoe line restoration to Leicester could cost additional £271M | New Civil Engineer

The 50km Ivanhoe line between Burton-upon-Trent and Leicester was a victim of the 1960s Beeching cuts, although it is still used for freight. Local group

www.newcivilengineer.com

Revived Ivanhoe Line would not link with Leicester as hoped

'Significant' infrastructure work in Leicester means the route is being re-shaped but three stations look set to be built

www.leicestermercury.co.uk

Quote from the Leicester Mercury:

Network Rail bosses say the shortening of the proposed reopened route is due “significant infrastructure investment” required to complete the link with Leicester on what is presently a single-track freight line. A complete restoration of the former Ivanhoe Line has not been ruled out though.
Mike Smith, Network Rail’s programme director for the Restoring Your Railways project, said: “Network Rail is working to further develop the Ivanhoe Line project. Currently, the project is not extending to Leicester. However, this reconnection could form part of a separate future project, should the initial Ivanhoe service prove to be a success.”

 

[Bartsimho]

I live not far away, so have become casually interested in this line and some months ago I had a go on Google My Maps to see what could be done.

Lester Trax – Google My Maps

Lester Trax

www.google.co.uk

This is a bit of a doodle to see what could be done. It's interactive so feel free to click the buttons. At the time I originally did it, the building outlined in pink was empty.
I've also added plots of land that could be sold.

Note the level crossing.

This is really good. Odd no-one else has said anything about this?

I wonder what the Passenger Train only Max Gradient is as this seems quite steep but if it's a passenger only curve then it might pass. From what I can see it would pass looking at a post from 2014 from Planner saying Lickey is 1 in 37 while this states it would be 1 in 40.

It feels like for this to happen it needs to be part of a larger Leicester railway project which might be coming. With Electrification and a new Up and Down Slow it feels like Leicester station needs a serious redesign in the coming years to accommodate both so allowing more capacity.

 

[Dr Hoo]

This is really good. Odd no-one else has said anything about this?

I wonder what the Passenger Train only Max Gradient is as this seems quite steep but if it's a passenger only curve then it might pass. From what I can see it would pass looking at a post from 2014 from Planner saying Lickey is 1 in 37 while this states it would be 1 in 40.

It feels like for this to happen it needs to be part of a larger Leicester railway project which might be coming. With Electrification and a new Up and Down Slow it feels like Leicester station needs a serious redesign in the coming years to accommodate both so allowing more capacity.

I never managed to get the map to open and still can’t.
Given that there already stone trains that have to run round at Knighton it seems madness to think about an ‘impossible-for-freight’ curve.

 

[Bartsimho]

I never managed to get the map to open and still can’t.
Given that there already stone trains that have to run round at Knighton it seems madness to think about an ‘impossible-for-freight’ curve.

The idea has a realigned Wigston to Coalville curve which would be at a similar gradient. It just has a curve and flyover facing Leicester which is steep so it doesn't change gradients of existing tracks severely.

Also try opening in incognito/private mode as sometimes that helps. You'd want Existing Lines, Future, Contours and High Level Line ticked if you can.

I don't know if this helps but it also has the gradients

 

[zwk500]

This is really good. Odd no-one else has said anything about this?

I wonder what the Passenger Train only Max Gradient is as this seems quite steep but if it's a passenger only curve then it might pass. From what I can see it would pass looking at a post from 2014 from Planner saying Lickey is 1 in 37 while this states it would be 1 in 40.

For reference, the maximum normal design gradient for railways carrying freight is 1 in 100, and you'd need to justify anything steeper (although being built between two existing alignments is quite a good justification!).

 

[NoRoute]

I would love to see Network Rail's costings for how they arrive at £271M to run a basic passenger service along an existing route, with some basic halt type stations thrown up along the route.

At these kind of sums the railway industry is pricing itself out of any new public transport schemes, better to spend the £271M on a mix of good quality, fast buses and some improvements to the road network to get them into and out of the town centers more quickly. A bus service between Burton and Leicester train stations, to provide onward rail connectivity would be the better investment.

 

[zwk500]

I would love to see Network Rail's costings for how they arrive at £271M to run a basic passenger service along an existing route, with some basic halt type stations thrown up along the route.

At these kind of sums the railway industry is pricing itself out of any new public transport schemes, better to spend the £271M on a mix of good quality, fast buses and some improvements to the road network to get them into and out of the town centers more quickly. A bus service between Burton and Leicester train stations, to provide onward rail connectivity would be the better investment.

The £271m is the additional cost on top of the Derby-Coalville section to provide Coalville-Leicester with a new chord.

 

[Mikw]

I'd be amazed if this every happens, it's been talked about for decades now.

 

[NoRoute]

The £271m is the additional cost on top of the Derby-Coalville section to provide Coalville-Leicester with a new chord.

Yes I can see the figure, £271M, what I would be interested to see is how that figure breaks down into the various elements and work packages of the scheme and whether they provide value for money.

It would be interesting to see the financial justification for doubling the track from Burton to Coalville because currently the amount of freight traffic appears to be very minimal and infrequent, doubling the track to accommodate what is likely to be an equally infrequent passenger service seems like gold-plated engineering of the worst kind.

Then when you add the suggestion that phase 1 will just get to Burton on Trent, with a connection to Leicester at some uncertain future date, the whole rationale for the scheme collapses because for Ashby and certainly for Coalville, it is Leicester which is the major local town that much of the potential passenger traffic will be travelling to. One of the fundamentals in any passenger service is whether passengers actually want to travel to the destination you are offering, in sufficient numbers to make it viable, and for Ashby and Coalville to Burton and Derby, it's likely the answer will be no.

 

[zwk500]

Yes I can see the figure, £271M, what I would be interested to see is how that figure breaks down into the various elements and work packages of the scheme and whether they provide value for money.

I expect land acquisition and signalling changes to the MML are a substantial part of the costs.

It would be interesting to see the financial justification for doubling the track from Burton to Coalville because currently the amount of freight traffic appears to be very minimal and infrequent, doubling the track to accommodate what is likely to be an equally infrequent passenger service seems like gold-plated engineering of the worst kind.

Yes it'd be interesting to see that, but then a half-hourly service with heavy freight at random times might well drive something even if not full redoubling.

Then when you add the suggestion that phase 1 will just get to Burton on Trent, with a connection to Leicester at some uncertain future date, the whole rationale for the scheme collapses because for Ashby and certainly for Coalville, it is Leicester which is the major local town that much of the potential passenger traffic will be travelling to. One of the fundamentals in any passenger service is whether passengers actually want to travel to the destination you are offering, in sufficient numbers to make it viable, and for Ashby and Coalville to Burton and Derby, it's likely the answer will be no.

I'm fairly sure the initial phase is proposed to be a Derby service.

 

[Mr. SW]

This is really good.

Thank you.

The high level line was really just a bit of crayon fun to see if it fitted. The steep gradients and excruciatingly sharp curve (125m) is just a metro-style solution. I wouldn't put a freight over it.

 

[The exile]

As a resident of Coalville, I say let’s get on with it. There is an extraordinary amount of complaining in local Facebook groups about how it will ‘kill the town’ or ‘bring in undesirables’, yet the railway (and huge amounts of coal) built this town. The Stephensons even lived here briefly!

To judge from those reactions, there are plenty of undesirables there already.

 

[Eskimo]

A few flat pack stations, a simple back n forth service and (probably a fair amount of) track renewal and it’s overcome the biggest hurdle the campaign faces - getting a single operation train running on the line is the priority for now. Not the chord. Not to Leicester. Just a few stations between Coalville and Burton, and a basic service. The rest can follow.

 

[InTheEastMids]

A few flat pack stations, a simple back n forth service and (probably a fair amount of) track renewal and it’s overcome the biggest hurdle the campaign faces - getting a single operation train running on the line is the priority for now. Not the chord. Not to Leicester. Just a few stations between Coalville and Burton, and a basic service. The rest can follow.

Agree with this, get something running between Coalville and Burton asap.

If you're determined to reach Leicester, then terminating at the park & ride on Ratby Lane at least provides some semblance of integrated transport. Of course being the UK we would mess this up (e.g. by not rejigging the P&R so that the bus stops are by the station exit).

Apologies for the next bit, been doing some DIY with solvent-based paints:
If HS2 2b hadn't been cancelled there may have been half a thought about a direct London service, e.g. could join a Nottingham train at Kettering as the Oakham/Melton service does.
If it had the good fortune to be elsewhere in Europe, a city the size of Leicester might well have a tram scheme and you might consider a tram train where somewhere East of the P&R you transition to on-street running on the A47 Hinckley Road and maybe terminate in Jubilee Square.