Level crossing problem

[epson460]

My daughter was taking a driving test for a C1 that she needs for her paramedic career when an unusual thing happened at a level crossing in Skipton.
The crossing had its barriers down and she was waiting in her van, fourth in line. The train passed and the barriers lifted. The cars started moving off then just as she was going to cross the white line, the red lights started flashing and the barriers started coming down. Her examiner initially told her to stop and then when they realised they were partly under the barrier, to carry on to clear the crossing.
They cleared it without causing any problems but unfortunately this was classed as a 'major' and even though she had no minors, she failed her test.
Is this something that normally happens at level crossings or could it possibly be faulty?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

My daughter was taking a driving test for a C1 that she needs for her paramedic career when an unusual thing happened at a level crossing in Skipton.
The crossing had its barriers down and she was waiting in her van, fourth in line. The train passed and the barriers lifted. The cars started moving off then just as she was going to cross the white line, the red lights started flashing and the barriers started coming down. Her examiner initially told her to stop and then when they realised they were partly under the barrier, to carry on to clear the crossing.
They cleared it without causing any problems but unfortunately this was classed as a 'major' and even though she had no minors, she failed her test.
Is this something that normally happens at level crossings or could it possibly be faulty?

There is generally an amber light first for a second or two before the red lights start flashing, was there one at this crossing do you know? If there was then she shouldn't have crossed when the red lights were flashing as she really should have stopped when the amber light showed.

 

[epson460]

The crossing had just opened and there were no flashing amber lights, it started with flashing red lights about 20 seconds after it had opened.

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

The crossing had just opened and there were no flashing amber lights, it started with flashing red lights about 20 seconds after it had opened.

It doesn't sound like the usual procedure, you would get a amber light ( not flashing) and associated warning siren, then after few seconds the red lights start flashing and then a few seconds later the barriers will begin to lower. So either something went wrong with that ( unlikely) or its possible your daughter missed the flashing lights and crossed while they were flashing. During a test and under stressful conditions this could happen, sadly its quite a big mistake to make if it did happen and understandably it was classed as a major.

 

[epson460]

Thanks.
Apparently no Amber lights. Just straight to red. Is that something that should be reported?

 

[Y Ddraig Coch]

Thanks.
Apparently no Amber lights. Just straight to red. Is that something that should be reported?

It may be worth going back to the crossing with your daughter ( if its close to home) and watching the sequence of events leading up to the barriers lowering and seeing how it compares to her recollection of the day. If it is as you mentioned above with no fixed amber light first and only red flashing lights and barriers lowering immediately without any delay then yes I would report urgently.

 

[epson460]

It may be worth going back to the crossing with your daughter ( if its close to home) and watching the sequence of events leading up to the barriers lowering and seeing how it compares to her recollection of the day. If it is as you mentioned above with no fixed amber light first and only red flashing lights and barriers lowering immediately without any delay then yes I would report urgently.

Thanks again.
She's adamant it happened that way. Unfortunately we live too far away to take that trip. So, I suppose it would be best to report it, just in case.

 

[Deafdoggie]

The highway code is clear. If you've crossed the white line when the Amber light comes on, then keep going. Never cross the line when the red lights are flashing.

There are virtually always two sets of lights the chances of both orange lights failing is very, very slim indeed.

Unfortunately, even the lights were to be faulty, she still crossed the line with the red lights flashing.

Those with more knowledge will be able to tell you the minimum time between barries being raised and lowered again.

 

[55018ballymoss]

It is possible that one of two things happened, either:
1. The crossing barriers have not returned to the fully raised position and so when they move downwards again when the crossing is activated go straight to the red road light.
2. The crossing was working correctly and the crossing keeper has attempted to reduce road traffic delay by allowing the barriers to raise to allow a few vehicles across before lowering them again.
3. There is a third option that indeed there may be a fault. If this crossing is controlled by a crossing keeper using a CCTV feed then it is possible to review the feed, if requested quickly enough, to check if the correct light sequence has activated

 

[40C]

Is there actually a level crossing in Skipton? I'm not from the area but I am unable to find one on a map.

 

[epson460]

It is possible that one of two things happened, either:
1. The crossing barriers have not returned to the fully raised position and so when they move downwards again when the crossing is activated go straight to the red road light.
2. The crossing was working correctly and the crossing keeper has attempted to reduce road traffic delay by allowing the barriers to raise to allow a few vehicles across before lowering them again.
3. There is a third option that indeed there may be a fault. If this crossing is controlled by a crossing keeper using a CCTV feed then it is possible to review the feed, if requested quickly enough, to check if the correct light sequence has activated

Thanks.
That all makes sense

 

[Rescars]

Seeing that your daughter was driving under test conditions, presumably the examiner was keeping a very close watch on everything. If the examiner didn't see the amber lights also, surely this suggests that something wasn't quite right here.

 

[epson460]

Is there actually a level crossing in Skipton? I'm not from the area but I am unable to find one on a map.

I don't live in the area either. It seems that it lies on the outskirts of Skipton on the road to Harrogate.

Seeing that your daughter was driving under test conditions, presumably the examiner was keeping a very close watch on everything. If the examiner didn't see the amber lights also, surely this suggests that something wasn't quite right here.

That's true. He would be. I hadn't thought of that.

 

[Ken H]

I don't live in the area either. It seems that it lies on the outskirts of Skipton on the road to Harrogate.

There are 2 near Skipton. The one at Connonley Station, and the one at Kildwick. Both on the way towards Keighley. Both controlled by York. There is one at Hetton (on the branch to Swinden Quarry) but that has no lights. just 2 gates worked by railway staff.
I dont think the Embsay and Bolton Abbey Steam Railway has a level crossing.
I would guess Kildwick as its a busy one.

 

[Ploughman]

Kildwick and Cononley are the 2 nearest LCs both on the Aire Valley route A few miles South of Skipton.
No LC on the Skipton - Settle line and a hand operated gate on the Rylstone line is the only other LC that I know of.

 

[rower40]

Stowmarket Control? Barriers go straight down if a train passes the protecting signal at danger? Not sure if this is applicable to any of the crossings mentioned.

 

[VP185]

Perhaps as the barriers has just gone up there was an expectation that they wouldn’t come be activated again so soon and as a result no one was checked the lights?

Is there not forward facing CCTV in the vehicle they she could have accessed?

 

[Macwomble]

Write to DVSA & request a written driving test report which must specify the reason for the fail. If your daughter doesn't agree with the report then complain on the grounds that the test was "not conducted in accordance with the regulations". If that's successful it won't change the original test result but she should get a free re-test.

 

[Llanigraham]

Write to DVSA & request a written driving test report which must specify the reason for the fail. If your daughter doesn't agree with the report then complain on the grounds that the test was "not conducted in accordance with the regulations". If that's successful it won't change the original test result but she should get a free re-test.

This was not a DVSA Test, but a specific "emergency response drivers test" run by her Ambulance Service so doing that would be a complete waste.

From the comments made I'm presuming the crossings are full barriered, so not automatic. From my experience whilst you can stop the raising sequence, to put it back into the closing operation the barriers have to completely raise first and then your activate lower again, so the amber lights will activate first, then the reds.

Different regions and emergency service forces have different rules, but when I did my blue light course in the Midlands I was told that in this sort of situation it was better to drive up alongside the queue so you were at the front but on the wrong side of the road and then you could "weave" when the barriers were raised as the traffic on the other side of the crossing could see you and would wait.

 

[Annetts key]

From the comments made I'm presuming the crossings are full barriered, so not automatic. From my experience whilst you can stop the raising sequence, to put it back into the closing operation the barriers have to completely raise first and then your activate lower again, so the amber lights will activate first, then the reds.

First, there are many variations of level crossing controls, so I cannot be certain with this area. However, on the MCB and CCTV crossings that I have worked on, you can stop the raising sequence, start the lowering sequence again and finish the closing operation without the barriers having to completely raise first. This is true even if the barriers are stopped in any position. When carrying out certain testing, I regularly did exactly this.

If the red lights were still flashing, you would not get the amber lights (the delay before the barriers start to lower would still apply). But then, no road traffic should have proceeded across until the red lights had extinguished (yes, I know that's not what happens in practice).

If the red lights had gone out, then yes, the amber lights would have illuminated first, with the normal timing. Watch this video to see the normal sequence:

 

[Llanigraham]

I can only go on the crossing I worked, where we had to complete the raise before we could lower again.

 

[Annetts key]

As I said, there are many variations of level crossing control. The number of variations even in one area is amazing.

I also get the impression that signallers are also taught to always perform a full sequence, given the difficulty I have had when I have asked them to stop the barriers 'half-way' and then start lowering them again.