Light rail or tram proposals that never happened!

[The exile]

Some were probably little more than “ kite flying”. Others fell victim to politics. Others may possibly only be in the “not yet” category.

 

[WatcherZero]

Merseytram was pulled in 2005 after the scheme cost increased from £170m to £270m when Laing O'Rourke won the contract unopposed (the other two bidders pulled out), Liverpool City Council and Knowsley council agreed to increase their share of the scheme funding by £24m but the other Merseyside councils refused to put any more money into the tram scheme and so the government pulled the plug over lack of local support.

 

[The Ham]

So why have none of these got off the ground? Simply lack of density of population and employment for sufficient critical mass for a financially viable route? Few examples of success without the advantage of a former rail corridor into a city centre to deliver reliable attractive journey time benefits without impacting road traffic.

I wouldn't be surprised if the following factors came to play:

- it's going to cost X per tax payer
- it's going to increase congestion
- it's going to reduce parking
- any other excuse for things not changing, only for things to change anyway in a different way.

 

[341o2]

Portsmouth/Solent
Bristol
Merseytram

In Manchester, a Wythenshawe to Middleton Monorail


Plus bits of existing networks that never happened:
Tramlink to Crystal Palace

Recent talk regarding trams or a monorail for Bournemouth.
Regarding the monorail, this may be tongue in cheek regarding an episode of the Simpsons, the town having an unsuspected $3m windfall spends it on a monorail with defective carriages which get out of control.

I know it is not tram/light rail, but Leeds spent a considerable amount of time proposing a new trolleybus line, only to drop the idea

 

[Randomer]

Unfortunately Leeds has spent a lot of time going back to the 1950's proposing and even starting purchasing land for various mass transit schemes to see them cancelled for various reasons. The original underground scheme went to pay for "slum" clearances and building tower blocks. I think personally that the lack of an easy train line to convert as the starting point of a system hasn't helped at all with the majority of lines into Leeds city centre still being used for longer distance trains.

See the latest plan for a new tram system by WYCA which I predict will probably go nowhere. If the 1990's and early 2000's super tram proposals weren't affordable I seriously doubt the money for an even more ambitious system is going to appear now.

Have any of the new tram systems been built exclusively on "new" routes that were not in part at least heavy rail lines previously? The only one that occurs to me is Edinburgh which coincidentally went hugely over budget.

 

[Busaholic]

Only ever vaguely down Oxford Street. The Cross River Tram would have run from St Pancras down Kingsway to Elephant and Castle and then split to Peckham and Brixton. It got to fairly detailed design and consultation before being abandoned by the wonderful new mayor in 2008

TfL also abandoned the Uxbridge Road project which would have run from Shepherds Bush all the way to Uxbridge. That would have led to far too many car parking spaces being lost so couldn't possibly be delivered

There were also John Prescott's East London regeneration plans which included at least two tram lines: eventually they morphed into two bus routes, though one was effectively only a 'short' version of the other. If they'd gone for trolleybus with assisted battery for a section off-line, there'd never have been an easier place in London to trial this imo.

 

[willgreen]

Have any of the new tram systems been built exclusively on "new" routes that were not in part at least heavy rail lines previously? The only one that occurs to me is Edinburgh which coincidentally went hugely over budget.

From memory, the Sheffield system largely avoids old alignments, although I imagine Edinburgh is probably the winner in percentage terms.

 

[neilmc]

Leeds didn't need to build exclusively "new" routes nor were there closed heavy rail lines to exploit; much of the tram network in the suburbs would have run along the path of lines abandoned in the 1950s with their own private reservation. For a city which has huge expanses of housing estates with no railway line anywhere near, the people of Leeds have been very poorly served by public transport for decades.

 

[Lemmy282]

From memory, the Sheffield system largely avoids old alignments, although I imagine Edinburgh is probably the winner in percentage terms.

Part of the route out to Meadowhall shares the alignment of the freight route from Woodburn Junction and Tinsley yard to Rotherham, and the depot is built on former carriage sidings. The Tram Train route from Tinsley South is on heavy rail shared with BR traffic as far as Parkgate.

Nigel L

 

[leytongabriel]

Only ever vaguely down Oxford Street. The Cross River Tram would have run from St Pancras down Kingsway to Elephant and Castle and then split to Peckham and Brixton. It got to fairly detailed design and consultation before being abandoned by the wonderful new mayor in 2008

TfL also abandoned the Uxbridge Road project which would have run from Shepherds Bush all the way to Uxbridge. That would have led to far too many car parking spaces being lost so couldn't possibly be delivered

I believe the good people of Peckham put up a spirited resistance to the idea of a tram depot in their back yard for the wider benefit of London and there was talk at the time of a certain arrogance at TfL which managed to antagonise residents and local authorities especially on the Uxbridge Rd scheme whose support was pretty crucial to getting things through.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Uxbridge - Shepherds Bush got a fair way , but the usual suspects kyboshed it.

If you want real fantasy , consider the "Swansea 9 Lines" concept. Consists of very high crayonista doodling.

 

[Solenttraffic]

The Solent tram system would have partly used an old line - the alignment can clearly be seen on google maps, its 'Henry Cort way' in Gosport. After the scheme was cancelled the route was converted into a dedicated bus lane, which can also be used by cyclists and emergency service vehicles. As a recreational cyclist it is a good route to use, but anybody who has driven on the adjacent a32 knows how notorious the traffic is, and indeed in the wider area as a whole. Gosport remains the largest UK town with no railway station serving it direct.

New proposed schemes do crop up every now and then in local media, such as this one from a few weeks ago: https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19483784.southampton-city-council-considering-trams-light-railway/

However, they never seem to materialise in any meaningful way. When digging into the one posted above, for example, it seems to be proposing an increased service pattern rather than building any new infrastructure.

 

[snookertam]

In the 1990s there were proposals for a tram running from Easterhouse, through Glasgow City Centre, to Maryhill. Got as far as a glossy brochure but didn’t get any further than that.

There are also current plans for a Glasgow metro that will combine on street running in places with heavy rail routes like the Cathcart Circle and the Springburn branch. Fully expect that to be discussed in future versions of this thread.

 

[Dr_Paul]

Looking at the "Today's railways" reviews of 1987-1990 -- the following were mentioned as "proposed" (first mention only)...
1990: Kingston-upon-Thames

I don't recall anything properly proposed in Kingston, although I may have missed an announcement. There have been vague ideas mooted, but nothing more than that.

Another scheme which was proposed and then dropped was Uxbridge to Shepherds Bush, I believe mainly because of congestion problems envisaged from Hanwell to Ealing.

 

[Towers]

Portsmouth also sort-of considered a monorail system at one point.

Archive press report:

PORTSMOUTH CONSIDERS MONORAIL PLAN | Local Government Chronicle (LGC)

Portsmouth City Council could next month give the green light to the UK's first public monorail, according to The Financial Times (p3).Carr West hopes to

www.lgcplus.com

 

[GeekyJamez]

Southampton Monorail plan from the 1980s - https://1cantoris.wordpress.com/2011/07/09/people-mover-scheme-78/

 

[gingerheid]

Glasgow - Maryhill to Easterhouse in 1994. The main objector was First Bus and I've never forgiven them!

 

[03_179]

Tramlink extensions to:

Crystal Palace
Sutton
Croydon Airport
Streatham

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Part of the route out to Meadowhall shares the alignment of the freight route from Woodburn Junction and Tinsley yard to Rotherham, and the depot is built on former carriage sidings. The Tram Train route from Tinsley South is on heavy rail shared with BR traffic as far as Parkgate.

Nigel L

Not quite the same as Manchester/Croydon where trams took over entire routes, nor Nottingham where a relatively new (albeit reopened) railway line was singled to make room.

South Yorkshire admittedly didn't really have any suitable branches to convert, hence some of the utterly crackpot ideas of the 2000s such as diesel tram-trains all the way to Huddersfield.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

Not quite the same as Manchester/Croydon where trams took over entire routes, nor Nottingham where a relatively new (albeit reopened) railway line was singled to make room.

South Yorkshire admittedly didn't really have any suitable branches to convert, hence some of the utterly crackpot ideas of the 2000s such as diesel tram-trains all the way to Huddersfield.

What about the Stocksbridge line from Sheffield? I always thought that warrented a Supertram extension.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

What about the Stocksbridge line from Sheffield? I always thought that warrented a Supertram extension.

It keeps being suggested, but there are a few issues. The railway itself isn't particularly close to the population centres for one thing, and the requirement for Tram-train vehicles rather than just trams is another thing that pushes up costs. Then there's the poor location of the former Victoria station.

 

[snookertam]

Look! Here’s a current, present day example. You can watch this proposal go from ‘jam tomorrow’ promises to drawing board to downgrade to quietly dropped in real time:

Glasgow unveils £30bn roadmap with metro and M8 roof garden

The ambitious plans aim to attract investment in the city from around the world.

news.stv.tv

Glasgow - Maryhill to Easterhouse in 1994. The main objector was First Bus and I've never forgiven them!

urbanglasgow.co.uk-Strathclyde Tram Leaflet from c.1994

James H

urbanglasgow.co.uk

 

[eMeS]

When I moved to Milton Keynes in the early 1980s I remember talk of trams or mono-rail using the grassed areas in the middle of some of the grid roads, but nothing has happened; apart from a trial with electric single decker buses on the No 7 route, and now replaced by diesel.

 

[AlastairFraser]

It keeps being suggested, but there are a few issues. The railway itself isn't particularly close to the population centres for one thing, and the requirement for Tram-train vehicles rather than just trams is another thing that pushes up costs. Then there's the poor location of the former Victoria station.

It runs quite closely to the current tram-train stop at Nunnery Square though, couldn't a chord be built from that line after separate platforms at Nunnery Square the other side of the depot through some derelict buildings to Woodbourn Rd and use the same rolling stock to extend up to Stocksbridge?

Would also be able to provide extra capacity up to Hillsborough on a matchday if a station was built 2 mins away at Herries Rd.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It runs quite closely to the current tram-train stop at Nunnery Square though, couldn't a chord be built from that line after separate platforms at Nunnery Square the other side of the depot through some derelict buildings to Woodbourn Rd and use the same rolling stock to extend up to Stocksbridge?

Would also be able to provide extra capacity up to Hillsborough on a matchday if a station was built 2 mins away at Herries Rd.

Doesn't help with the situation at the other end of the line, with people having to walk up the hillsides to their homes from the tram stop at the valley bottom. The weather in that part of the world can be very unforgiving and can change rapidly. Buses by comparison can take them within five minutes of their front doors.

A better way of providing extra capacity for Hillsborough would be a reserve fleet of trams (perhaps a dozen modified Tatra T3s second-hand from Europe? ) along the existing tram route that runs right past the stadium. If using Wadsley Bridge is the best answer then you've asked the wrong question in my opinion.

Prague and Dortmund (among others) manage to have a reserve fleet of older trams to use for major events, but everything we do in this country is priced down to the pence.

 

[AlastairFraser]

Doesn't help with the situation at the other end of the line, with people having to walk up the hillsides to their homes from the tram stop at the valley bottom. The weather in that part of the world can be very unforgiving and can change rapidly. Buses by comparison can take them within five minutes of their front doors.

A better way of providing extra capacity for Hillsborough would be a reserve fleet of trams (perhaps a dozen modified Tatra T3s second-hand from Europe? ) along the existing tram route that runs right past the stadium. If using Wadsley Bridge is the best answer then you've asked the wrong question in my opinion.

Prague and Dortmund (among others) manage to have a reserve fleet of older trams to use for major events, but everything we do in this country is priced down to the pence.

Isn't there a Supertram feeder bus system at the Halfway/Crystal Peaks end to perform a similar function connecting people to the tram though?
A bus rapid transit scheme would be a decent alternatives with 3 routes on a 15 min frequency each doing different loops of the area after a busway section, similar to Luton and Dunstable - unfortunately, there is no real suitable alignment for a busway section, unless you add bus lanes on the A616, M1 and A6109 at huge cost.
Having spare trams is something that would never be countenanced by the powers that be like you said, although I still think the number of people coming out the stadium would be an issue, plus the tram train would be very convenient for fans from Rotherham or maybe further afield parking near Meadowhall.

 

[Lemmy282]

When the tram system was designed there were supposed to be feeder buses from Stocksbridge to Middlewood, and a feeder in to Halfway from surrounding areas. Not sure whether these are still going, I don't live anywhere the tramway, but with bus services being cut back I would guess they might be cut.

 

[NorthKent1989]

Along with the West London Tram to Uxbridge, The City Tram, The Cross River Tram and the East London Transit, there was also the Greenwich Waterfront Transit.

This was famous because in the early 2000s this was designed to be a tram line from Thamesmead to Greenwich with a later extension to Lewisham, then it was to be a trolley bus and by the time it was canned by our current PM/former mayor of London, it was nothing more than a glorified 472 bus with fancy buses with it running only as far as North Greenwich.

It’s amazing that after all the schemes planned in the 2000s only one got off the ground, the East London transit, but that only became a bus network.

There were also various plans to extend the Croydon tram network to places far afield as Purley, Sutton, Bromley, Lewisham, Crystal Palace, Streatham & Brixton, now it looks like the Sutton extension may become a reality as a network in its own right.

DLR extensions to the West End, Euston, Forest Hill, Hayes and Dagenham Docks have also fallen by the wayside.

 

[Ianno87]

Mancheater Metrolink extensions to Glossop/Hadfield and Rose Hill/Marple, although they may see light of day as Tram Train.

Plus Port Salford, Stockport (via East Didsbury) and the Airport Western Loop.

None officially dropped but dormant for now.

 

[D6975]

The Bristol tram scheme has been floated and sunk several times, each with modified routes compared to the previous. The most recent incarnation included a line to the airport. Nowadays the shift has been towards heavy rail, we are currently waiting on the Portishead branch, possible extra shacks between TM and Bath/Parkway and a ‘snipped’ Henbury loop.