Lloyds Coaches, Machynlleth

[RELL6L]

Slightly adjacent to the topic but there is more detail of changes now on Lloyds website. The changes to the T2 and T3 look fairly minor, although the odd T3C that went through to Wrexham looks to have gone.

Other changes in the area see the replacement of the X29 and 28 Mach-Tywyn-Dolgellau by a new G21. There are fewer journeys in the southern section but the times are co-ordinated better with the T2 and T3. The normal timing sees journeys at Dolgellau on the odd hours (it will be crowded!), passing at Tywyn at the even hours and then arriving at Mach pretty much an hour between the T2s. The timetable says change - but it would be more obvious to go through - to the T28 to Aberystwyth filling in the gaps.

Meanwhile the 30 is replaced by a one bus G24. This also covers Sandilands in Tywyn but the service is reduced here too. Between the peaks this is also at Tywyn on the even hours and runs up past Talyllyn to Minfford where it connects with the T2 to Dolgellau but itself runs to Mach. Different at school and college times with direct journeys to Dolgellau in each peak. Only the Tywyn school journeys run via Aberlefenni and the 34 is withdrawn. The Lloyds site says Aberlefenni is otherwise replaced by the FF2, while Dolgellau to Dinas Mawddwy and similar is replaced by the FF1. It doesn't give any details of FF1 and FF2 and they aren't on the Lloyds map but the dreaded word Fflecsi springs to mind, presumably not with Lloyds.

So better connections to the Trawscymru network for the Tywyn peninsula but fewer services and some areas no longer covered. Updated map already on Lloyds website which is still the best map of Mid-North Wales. Not sure I am ever going to manage my run from Mach-Dinas Mawddwy-Dolgellau!

Lloyds Coaches | Bus Timetables | Call Us: 01654 702 100

Lloyds Coaches Wales | Quality Bus & Coach services Wales | Coach Hire Wales | Local Bus Services based in Machynlleth Mid Wales | Call Us: 01654 702 100

lloydscoaches.com

 

[markymark2000]

The timetable says change - but it would be more obvious to go through - to the T28 to Aberystwyth filling in the gaps.

Running through would mean more TrawsCymru buses needed and the demands for the T28 and X29/28 (or soon to be G21) ware quite different. The former needing full size singles or decker's, the latter needing really just Solos. I want to say there may have been a point in the past when the X29 and X28 (now T28) ran through but it was stopped. (Could be wrong, I just seem to remember it.)

Meanwhile the 30 is replaced by a one bus G24.

What a mess the G24 is. How on earth can a bus which does Dolgellau - Tywyn be numbered the same as a bus doing Machnellyth to Tywyn and the same as a bus doing Aberlefenni to Dollgellau (not via Tywyn) all be numbered the same.

The Lloyds site says Aberlefenni is otherwise replaced by the FF2, while Dolgellau to Dinas Mawddwy and similar is replaced by the FF1. It doesn't give any details of FF1 and FF2 and they aren't on the Lloyds map but the dreaded word Fflecsi springs to mind, presumably not with Lloyds.

Yes, they have been Fflecsified. Unconfirmed but Teithio Seren are currently advertising for drivers in the Doll area and their manager has changed his Facebook profile photo to a Fflecsi van (source is their owners Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/david.mcaulay.75). Could be coincidence but they could have won one or both tenders.

 

[RELL6L]

Running through would mean more TrawsCymru buses needed and the demands for the T28 and X29/28 (or soon to be G21) ware quite different. The former needing full size singles or decker's, the latter needing really just Solos. I want to say there may have been a point in the past when the X29 and X28 (now T28) ran through but it was stopped. (Could be wrong, I just seem to remember it.)


What a mess the G24 is. How on earth can a bus which does Dolgellau - Tywyn be numbered the same as a bus doing Machnellyth to Tywyn and the same as a bus doing Aberlefenni to Dollgellau (not via Tywyn) all be numbered the same.


Yes, they have been Fflecsified. Unconfirmed but Teithio Seren are currently advertising for drivers in the Doll area and their manager has changed his Facebook profile photo to a Fflecsi van (source is their owners Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/david.mcaulay.75). Could be coincidence but they could have won one or both tenders.

I am sure you are right on the G21/T28, as the routes appear to overlap between the station and the centre in Mach and they wouldn't show that if they were actually running through. Presumably the drivers aren't either.

The G24 isn't much different from the old 30, being lots of things in one. I took the 30 a few years ago from Mach via Aberlefenni to Abergynolwyn, picked up a few school kids from another 30 then back to Corris. Then the bus went back to Aberlefenni and back to Mach - the driver reappeared on the T2 heading north to pick me up from Corris (lovely place to spend the time I might add). Now it will just go in service from Aberlefenni to Dolgellau - OK that's confusing because it doesn't go down the valley that defines the G24 at all. But it's still the valley bus!

If it all works as slickly as it should you could do Dolgellau to Tywyn (via Fairbourne) then back changing at Minfford, all in two hours. One scenic circuit!

Fflecsi, ugh. Worthwhile? Is it even replacing the school 533 bus into Dolgellau? What on earth is the point of that?

 

[markymark2000]

The G24 isn't much different from the old 30, being lots of things in one. I took the 30 a few years ago from Mach via Aberlefenni to Abergynolwyn, picked up a few school kids from another 30 then back to Corris. Then the bus went back to Aberlefenni and back to Mach - the driver reappeared on the T2 heading north to pick me up from Corris (lovely place to spend the time I might add). Now it will just go in service from Aberlefenni to Dolgellau - OK that's confusing because it doesn't go down the valley that degeines the G24 at all. But it's still the valley bus!

The actual makeup of the routes, I agree with. Reducing dead mileage, it serves all the markets it needs to. The sole issue I have with it is a single route number being used for what is essentially, 3 different routes. On the 30, Mach was more just a placement journey in the morning but now it's a part of the core service (which is good, praise to Gwynedd for that, it saves people trying to cross the A874 to make connections at Minffordd which, I'd say, is a recipe for disaster really unless you are quick footed), really it makes no sense having the 3 different routes, all under one route number. If Gwynedd wasn't so insistent on having the 'G' prefix (New thing so they can brag about the routes they fund), 24 to Mach, 24A to Doll, 24B for Aberlefenni to Doll. People can read the route specific timetables easier then to make their journey.

Fflecsi, ugh. Worthwhile?

Probably a good call. Replaces low usage routes into very sparsely populated areas. Not the most useful though at school time as it seems the Fflecsi bus will be taken up with school runs so normal passengers won't get a look in for booking journeys at those times.

Lloyds have now posted all of the service changes on their website.

Service Changes from Monday 12th February 2024 -

From Monday 12th February 2024 there will be changes to services 28, 29, 30, 33, 33A, 34, 34A, 35, 541, G23, T2, T28 and X29. Lloyds Coaches have no control over timetables, these are dictated by the Tendering Authority, for example Transport for Wales or your local council. For details of the...

lloydscoaches.com

Service T2 – Click Here to view the NEW TrawsCymru service T2 timetable between Aberystwyth and Bangor / COMING SOON – Click Here to view a Timetable of T2 and T22 buses between Oakeley Arms, Penrhyndeudraeth, Porthmadog, Penygroes, Caernarfon and Bangor

• Service T2 will no longer serve Porthmadog Tesco, Porthmadog Railway Station or Tremadog, these locations will be served by NEW TrawsCymru Service T22
• TrawsCymru Service T2 will operate direct between Porthmadog and Criccieth via Penamser Road in Porthmadog serving Aldi and Lidl getting you nearer to those bargains
• Buses between Oakeley Arms, Penrhyndeudraeth, Porthmadog, Penygroes and Caernarfon will operate up to Every Hour with NEW TrawsCymru Service T22
• To improve timekeeping TrawsCymru Services T2 and T28 will leave Aberystwyth Bus Station earlier at 35 minutes past the hour
• To improve timekeeping TrawsCymru Services T2 and T28 will no longer serve Bow Street Railway Station Car Park, please board at the stop by Huws Gray

Service T3/T3C – Click Here to view the NEW TrawsCymru service T3/T3C timetable

• Due to low passenger numbers and poor parking TrawsCymru Service T3 will no longer serve Ruabon Railway Station, rail passengers will be able to access trains at Wrexham General Railway Station, with Service T3 operating via Mold Road all day, 7 days a week
• The nearest bus stops to Wrexham General Railway Station will be at the Turf Hotel towards Wrexham and at Dunelm heading towards Llangollen, Corwen, Bala, Dolgellau and Barmouth
• Due to low passenger numbers and delays caused by the Level Crossing on Watery Lane in Wrexham, TrawsCymru Service T3 will no longer serve Wrexham Maelor Hospital. Arriva buses operate from Wrexham Bus Station to Wrexham Maelor Hospital up to every 10 minutes.

Service G23 – Click Here to view the NEW Lloyds Coaches service G23 timetable

• A NEW Sunday and Bank Holiday timetable will be introduced on Service G23
• 4 journeys a day on Sundays and Bank Holidays will operate between Barmouth, Harlech and Porthmadog
• Connections with TrawsCymru Service T3 will be available at Barmouth

Service T28 – Click Here to view the NEW TrawsCymru service T28 timetable

• To improve timekeeping TrawsCymru Services T2 and T28 will leave Aberystwyth Bus Station at 35 minutes past the hour
• To improve timekeeping TrawsCymru Services T2 and T28 will no longer serve Bow Street Railway Station Car Park, please board at the stop by Huws Gray

Service 28 – Click Here to view the NEW Lloyds Coaches service G21 timetable

• Services 28 will become NEW Service G21 and operate between Dolgellau, Fairbourne, Tywyn, Aberdyfi and Machynlleth
• An Earlier bus will run Monday to Saturday from Dolgellau at 0558 Mon-Fri and 0703 on Saturdays to Fairbourne, Tywyn, Aberdyfi and Machynlleth
• A Later bus will run Monday to Saturday from Dolgellau at 1703 to Fairbourne, Tywyn, Aberdyfi and Machynlleth
• Later buses will run Monday to Saturday from Tywyn at 1603 and 1803 to Fairbourne and Dolgellau
• NEW Service G21 along with NEW Service G24 provides up to 10 buses a day between Tywyn and Dolgellau
• Connections with TrawsCymru Services T2 and T28 will be available at Machynlleth for Aberystwyth
• Connections with TrawsCymru Service T2 and T3 will be available at Dolgellau for Barmouth, Wrexham, Bangor and Aberystwyth

Service X29 – Click Here to view the NEW Lloyds Coaches service G21 timetable

• Services X29 will become NEW Service G21 and operate between Machynlleth, Aberdyfi, Tywyn, Fairbourne and Dolgellau
• The 0748 Machynlleth to Tywyn journey will operate Ysgol Uwchradd Tywyn Schooldays only
• The 1450 Tywyn to Machynlleth journey will operate Ysgol Uwchradd Tywyn Schooldays only
• Connections with TrawsCymru Services T2 and T28 will be available at Machynlleth for Aberystwyth
• Connections with TrawsCymru Service T2 and T3 will be available at Dolgellau for Barmouth, Wrexham, Bangor and Aberystwyth

Service 29 – Click Here to view the NEW Lloyds Coaches service G24 timetable

• Service 29 will become NEW Service G24, operating 3 times a day, Monday to Saturday between Sandilands and Tywyn High Street
• Due to low passenger numbers Service G24 will no longer serve Pier Road, the Promenade or Neptune Road

Service 30 – Click Here to view the NEW Lloyds Coaches service G24 timetable

• Service 30 will become NEW Service G24, operating between Machynlleth-Corris-Aberlefenni-Corris Uchaf-Abergynolwyn-Bryncrug-Tywyn
• Connections will be available at Tywyn with NEW Service G21 towards Aberdyfi and Machynlleth
• College time journeys from Tywyn to Dolgellau will still operate

Service 33 & 33A – Click Here to view the details of the NEW Dolgellau Fflecsi bus

• NEW Dolgellau Fflecsi bus will be operated by another bus operator, please call 0300 2 340 300 for more details
• NEW Dolgellau Fflecsi bus will replace Service 33 & 33A operating on demand via Phone on 0300 2 340 300 or the Fflecsi App
• NEW Dolgellau Fflecsi bus will be available between 0800 and 1800 Monday to Saturday
• The communities of Llanfachreth, Brithdir, Nannau, Hermon, Abergeirw, Dinas Mawddwy, Dolgellau Town plus Ty Nant for the Pony Path to Cader Idris will be served
• Marian Mawr Enterprise Park will be served on demand improving access to Employment opportunities
• Dolgellau and Barmouth District Community Hospital will be served on demand improving access to Healthcare
• Connects with TrawsCymru and local bus services in Dolgellau
• School & College time journeys from Aberangell to Dolgellau will still operate
• School & College time journeys from Brithdir and Llanfachreth to Dolgellau will still operate

Service 34 – Click Here to view the details of the NEW Dulas Valley Fflecsi bus

• NEW Dulas Valley Fflecsi bus will replace Service 34 operating on demand via Phone on 0300 2 340 300 or the Fflecsi App
• NEW Dulas Valley Fflecsi bus will be available between 0800 and 1800 Monday to Saturday
• NEW Dulas Valley Fflecsi will serve the communities of Aberlefenni, Garneddwen, Corris, Corris Uchaf, Ceinws, Esgairgeiliog, Llwyngwern, Pantperthog and Fridd Gate
• NEW Dulas Valley Fflecsi bus will serve Dyfi Eco Park and Treowain Enterprise Park on demand improving access to Employment opportunities
• NEW Dulas Valley Fflecsi bus will serve Iechyd Bro Ddyfi Health Centre and Bro Ddyfi Community Hospital on demand improving access to Healthcare
• NEW Dulas Valley Fflecsi bus will serve Machynlleth Railway Station on demand improving access to Rail services
• NEW Dulas Valley Fflecsi will connect with TrawsCymru and local bus services in Machynlleth
• School time journeys from Aberlefenni to Machynlleth will still operate

Service 34A – Service withdrawn due to low usage



Service 35 – Click Here to view the NEW Lloyds Coaches service 504 timetable

• Service 35 will be replaced by NEW Lloyds Coaches service 504 and will operate College Days only between Tanygrisiau, Blaenau Ffestiniog, Llan Ffestiniog, Gellilydan, Trawsfynydd and Dolgellau College
• Connections between TrawsCymru Service T2 and NEW TrawsCymru Service T22 will be available Every 2 Hours at the Oakeley Arms for journeys between Dolgellau and Blaenau Ffestiniog

The T2, what a laugh. No longer serving Porthmadog Tesco or the train station (so yet again, losing rail connections and also missing out 2 of the largest stops within Porthmadog). No longer serving Bow Street, well it was always a daft diversion as the bus follows the train line anyway. Worth noting too, as well as areas being cut, there is yet another journey time increase. As if the last one wasn't bad enough. The T2, once a nice fast route has been slowed down thanks to the experts at TrawsCymru. People don't want slow buses, they want to get where they are going, at no point has anyone ever said that they want slower buses which divert to serve other areas which have a more than frequent bus service and they also want a bus which misses out their key destinations. Welsh bus network is going to pot under TFW control.

The T3, why is Ruabon station suddenly an issue? It's operated for years without an issue and now suddenly its tendered by the Welsh Govt rather than through councils, whoosh, rail connection gone. Also a shame to see the loss of the link via Wrexham Hospital. Always thought it would have been better running via Croesnewydd Road to provide a service to the large employer and new housing estate there, that wouldn't help against their level crossing delays though. I love that they are advertising for people to make bus/train connections at Wrexham General but the bus stops are a good few minutes walk, nothing like the bus/train connection in Ruabon.

35, renumbered to 504. Shame to lose some journeys there. 2 placement trips lost (unless Lloyds are going to run this from Caernarfon, why cut the dead mileage trips? Costs you nothing) plus lost the morning round trip which was always a big strange but it was an interesting service nevertheless.

 

[RELL6L]

Yes there's more detail and explanations on the Lloyds website now. Shame there have to be some cuts and losses, such as the Promenade in Tywyn losing its service. But - looking at some other areas in Wales - could have been worse.

Aberflefenni retains a school bus to Machynlleth as well as the school bus to Tywyn, otherwise its just the Fflecsi. The Lloyds website gives a link to the Fflecsi website, but the Fflecsi website makes no mention of these areas - clearly running behind. The Lloyds changes, referring to the 33, says the school runs into Dolgellau will still operate, but presumably not with Lloyds Coaches? No details are shown.

Some of the changes are now on the Gwynedd website, but not all. The G24 is on there but not the G21, no mention of the Fflecsi.

Is the T2 really that much slower? Its still half an hour quicker than the train from Machynlleth to Porthmadog.

 

[greenline712]

So better connections to the Trawscymru network for the Tywyn peninsula but fewer services and some areas no longer covered. Updated map already on Lloyds website which is still the best map of Mid-North Wales. Not sure I am ever going to manage my run from Mach-Dinas Mawddwy-Dolgellau!

I'll not bother to comment on the timetable changes . . . that's been done to death already.

I managed to travel on the 33 from Dolgellau to Machynlleth about 15 years ago . . . the 1620 from Doll to Mach on a Saturday . . . and got back to Watford that evening! A lovely ride up over the watershed at Cross Foxes, and then down through the Mawddwy valley, looking out for traces of the branch line from Cemmaes Road (and they were still visible!).
I'd previously managed the 30 from Tywyn to Mach, but never did the 34 to Aberlefenni . . . other than by car. The 29 from Tywyn to Dolgellau is a favourite as well.

Once the new timetables are fully published, I really must go back . . .

 

[nwales58]

Updated map already on Lloyds website which is still the best map of Mid-North Wales.

Excellent map.

Gwynedd - copy on your web site, plus publicity aimed at locals and visitors: 'where you can go by bus'?

 

[RELL6L]

Excellent map.

Gwynedd - copy on your web site, plus publicity aimed at locals and visitors: 'where you can go by bus'?

Seconded. Low key, simple, clear and first class. Should be used everywhere.

Being picky - the 18 to Abersoch ought to be a thick grey line, this is a regular service. Then you can always snipe at the edges and say you should add this service and that service, eg Denbigh to Mold, Holyhead to Amlwch, but where do you draw the line and I don't think that's the purpose of it. Well done Lloyds.

 

[burns20]

Thank you for your kind words about our selection of maps.

We've now started adding faretables (G21, G23, G24 and T28 so far) as well as maps showing Day and Weekly ticket validity to our website.

Any feedback is always welcome.

Daniel King
Assistant Operations Manager
Lloyds Coaches

 

[markymark2000]

Thank you for your kind words about our selection of maps.

We've now started adding faretables (G21, G23, G24 and T28 so far) as well as maps showing Day and Weekly ticket validity to our website.

Any feedback is always welcome.

Daniel King
Assistant Operations Manager
Lloyds Coaches

Excellent to see you adding a fare tables and the maps are very useful as well. Only thing I would perhaps change is adding a converter to them to make it easier for people to work out other fares as well as perhaps give information on other bus ticket acceptance such as Plusbus. I always think that Falcon Bus, White Bus and Ensigns examples of fare tables are excellent (https://www.whitebus.co.uk/media/1537/462-fares-may2022.pdf)



Only other thing to say is on the 1bws parts of the day/weekly pages, there are a few references to services which no longer operate such as Arriva 11A. Few references around the site for the X28 (now of course the T28). If I were to be really picky, one of the little known exceptions to 1Bws as well is the Merseytravel 811 which runs in Broughton.


On TapOn/TapOff, I do think the Littlepay link should be a lot more visible rather than hidden in the FAQs so that passengers can see their charges. Also of note, perhaps intentional, is within the FAQs, you have 2 different links to check transactions, one to Littlepay itself (register my card question) and another to TFWs site to check journey history (check charges question).


Has Lloyds ever considered the more interactive website models such as Rise Digital Media, Full Passenger or even MyTrip by Passenger? Would bring together all of the ticketing and timetable information as well as give tracking on the site to make that information more accessible? I am not a salesperson for these sites by the way, just a thought.

 

[RELL6L]

The website is very good and informative. Originally on the changes there was reference to the two Fflecsi services being operated by ‘another operator’ and starting on Monday, now that reference has gone and the timetable page has them starting on Monday week. Are these going to be operated by Lloyds?

The Fflecsi website now includes the Machynlleth service but not yet the Dolgellau one.

Looks like the Dinas Mawddwy routes could perhaps be added back on the excellent map.

Hope the changes go smoothly.

 

[burns20]

The website is very good and informative. Originally on the changes there was reference to the two Fflecsi services being operated by ‘another operator’ and starting on Monday, now that reference has gone and the timetable page has them starting on Monday week. Are these going to be operated by Lloyds?

The Fflecsi website now includes the Machynlleth service but not yet the Dolgellau one.

Looks like the Dinas Mawddwy routes could perhaps be added back on the excellent map.

Hope the changes go smoothly.

Lloyds Coaches will now operate both Dolgellau and Machynlleth Fflecsi routes.

4 Fflecsi minibuses arrived in Machynlleth yesterday and are being prepared for service.

The Fflecsi launch has been delayed a week with Services 33, 33A and 34 operating FREE hopefully with the new vehicles to allow people to get used to the new look and pick up information plus hopefully a community engagement event at Machynlleth Market on Wednesday and Dolgellau Farmers Market

Maps are currently being updated as I type.

Excellent to see you adding a fare tables and the maps are very useful as well. Only thing I would perhaps change is adding a converter to them to make it easier for people to work out other fares as well as perhaps give information on other bus ticket acceptance such as Plusbus. I always think that Falcon Bus, White Bus and Ensigns examples of fare tables are excellent (https://www.whitebus.co.uk/media/1537/462-fares-may2022.pdf)

View attachment 151988

Only other thing to say is on the 1bws parts of the day/weekly pages, there are a few references to services which no longer operate such as Arriva 11A. Few references around the site for the X28 (now of course the T28). If I were to be really picky, one of the little known exceptions to 1Bws as well is the Merseytravel 811 which runs in Broughton.


On TapOn/TapOff, I do think the Littlepay link should be a lot more visible rather than hidden in the FAQs so that passengers can see their charges. Also of note, perhaps intentional, is within the FAQs, you have 2 different links to check transactions, one to Littlepay itself (register my card question) and another to TFWs site to check journey history (check charges question).


Has Lloyds ever considered the more interactive website models such as Rise Digital Media, Full Passenger or even MyTrip by Passenger? Would bring together all of the ticketing and timetable information as well as give tracking on the site to make that information more accessible? I am not a salesperson for these sites by the way, just a thought.

What it would be to only have 12 fare stages!

the T2 faretable I started last night is a monster!

Thank you for highlighting these, I'll try and find all the references next week.

We did look at Passenger and an App but with TfW taking greater control and their own App we decided against it.

 

[RELL6L]

That’s great news from Lloyds Coaches. If the Fflecsi has been commissioned at really short notice and four new vehicles obtained then that’s particularly impressive in such a short time. I hope the free week generates some interest and custom.

 

[burns20]

Following feedback from yourselves we have now added the 25, 45 and 61 on Ynys Môn to our network map plus the 14 from Denbigh to Mold

All references to X28 now show T28

811 is shown as not valid on 1Bws page

The FF1 and FF2 are shown also

All network maps plus ticket validity maps will be uploaded tomorrow

 

[RELL6L]

Following feedback from yourselves we have now added the 25, 45 and 61 on Ynys Môn to our network map plus the 14 from Denbigh to Mold

All references to X28 now show T28

811 is shown as not valid on 1Bws page

The FF1 and FF2 are shown also

All network maps plus ticket validity maps will be uploaded tomorrow

That's first rate, an excellent map, simple, legible, clear but gives good detail for anyone planning a trip in the area. Would be great to get a link to it from the Gwynedd bus times website, it would enhance anyone looking at the network so much. There are some links there - even one to BusTimes - so worth a shot.