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LM 319 cascade progress

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jopsuk

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It might have been answered- but are they taking Southern liveried units?
 
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158722

158722

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Class377/5 said:
Nope. Just the 319/4s I'm told.
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Not sure this is connected with LM, but on one of the lists posted, 319447 was noted as going off lease in February, but has since been reported as going to Wolverton for C6. Has that been changed to remaining with TSGN or is it a candidate for LM?
 
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sd0733

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Part of an e-mail yesterday updated the current LM 319 situation.
It said that LM engineering staff have been to Bedford and inspected some units and the FOUR (not seven) will be picked from them
The remaining 3 diagrams will be formed from 350s which Siemens have been asked to provide from the existing fleet of Desiros.
 
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Bletchleyite

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sd0733 said:
Part of an e-mail yesterday updated the current LM 319 situation.
It said that LM engineering staff have been to Bedford and inspected some units and the FOUR (not seven) will be picked from them
The remaining 3 diagrams will be formed from 350s which Siemens have been asked to provide from the existing fleet of Desiros.
Click to expand...

Oh dear. That's short formings and cancellations all over the place, then. Madness.
 
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sd0733

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The 350s are very reliable units to be fair very very rarely have much trouble with them, even the /3s are settling down into solid reliable performers to be honest and are now spreading their wings, 2 went to liverpool yesterday but there are still shortforms now and again and with 3 less units there would be the potential for more.
with 3 mainline units (1 on st albans abbey) would seem likely only 1pair will be out with the other maintenance spare.
 
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swt_passenger

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Isn't the current situation that they only diagram 3 or 4 of the 321s daily, and 3 of the 10 additional 350s were earmarked for Bromsgrove (indirectly by internal cascade) and aren't needed yet?

Maybe having 4 x 319s is just a transitional step?
 
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Tetchytyke

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swt_passenger said:
Isn't the current situation that they only diagram 3 or 4 of the 321s daily
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They definitely have at least five out: one on the Abbey Flyer, two out together all day on Tring stoppers then the 1630 Milton Keynes and return, and two sit together in Camden sidings between the peaks.

I'm sure they will juggle the diagrams to make it all work, but yes, I'd expect shorter formations. We saw that at the last timetable change in December with the 1634 Tring and return losing four carriages (which I think went to the new 1646 Crewe), which was great given it was usually full and standing as a 12-car.
 
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MK Tom

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Whenever I go to London in the evening I see 2 pairs of 321s in service and a fifth on the Abbey line. The other two as Rich says are often at Bletchley - I have a little smile if I manage to spot all seven in one trip.
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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swt_passenger said:
Isn't the current situation that they only diagram 3 or 4 of the 321s daily, and 3 of the 10 additional 350s were earmarked for Bromsgrove (indirectly by internal cascade) and aren't needed yet?

Maybe having 4 x 319s is just a transitional step?
Click to expand...

Seeing as Scotrail is getting 7x 321s...

Certainly was proposed to happen with two transferring over initially. The first units in service in September was the last thing I'd heard.
 
158722

158722

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MK Tom said:
Whenever I go to London in the evening I see 2 pairs of 321s in service and a fifth on the Abbey line. The other two as Rich says are often at Bletchley - I have a little smile if I manage to spot all seven in one trip.
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If only five 321s are diagrammed, my logic would be to deploy five replacement 319s on the Walsall-Wolves circuit, displacing the five 350s currently used, which are then deployed on the Euston & St Albans turns currently operated by 321s. Ensures a uniform fleet at the London end of the LM operation and as crew training on 319s will have to happen anyway, then its only the Birmingham crews. LM will need extra units anyway for the Chase line in 2017, hence if there is no chance of 323s being drafted in from Northern for this, then more 319s is the obvious solution. Given this, then might as well keep all the 319s at the Brum end of LM, rather than have them split up. Logical?
 
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Silverlinky

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The latest rumours are indeed correct that 4x319's will soon arrive with LM, these will be from different sub classes, namely 1 319/0, 2 319/2 and 1 319/4
The /0 is without first class and would be the primary unit to be used on the abbey, two of the other three would be joined to form a permanent 8 car set for use on the mainline with the other as a maintanence spare.

The four units could be just an initial allocation with further units a distinct possibility. the electrification of the chase line could see 350's on the cross city and 323's displaced to the chase. In the interim the shortfall in units for the WC could be covered by less units stabled off peak, further down the line there are stabling issues anyway with the disappearance of Camden CS due to the proposed HS2 work starting in 2017.

Bottom line is the 319's are almost certainly coming and plans are being formulated for training issues.

350's are not suitable for the Abbey due to route clearance issues at the Watford end of the line, however the 319's have similar issues to be addressed before operation into Euston. All may become clearer in the coming weeks.
 
Class377/5

Class377/5

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Silverlinky said:
The latest rumours are indeed correct that 4x319's will soon arrive with LM, these will be from different sub classes, namely 1 319/0, 2 319/2 and 1 319/4
The /0 is without first class and would be the primary unit to be used on the abbey, two of the other three would be joined to form a permanent 8 car set for use on the mainline with the other as a maintanence spare.

The four units could be just an initial allocation with further units a distinct possibility. the electrification of the chase line could see 350's on the cross city and 323's displaced to the chase. In the interim the shortfall in units for the WC could be covered by less units stabled off peak, further down the line there are stabling issues anyway with the disappearance of Camden CS due to the proposed HS2 work starting in 2017.

Bottom line is the 319's are almost certainly coming and plans are being formulated for training issues.

350's are not suitable for the Abbey due to route clearance issues at the Watford end of the line, however the 319's have similar issues to be addressed before operation into Euston. All may become clearer in the coming weeks.
Click to expand...

Plan was for only 319/4 to go to LM. The first two units were to be trialed on the Abbey Line.
 
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The Planner

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Class377/5 said:
Seeing as Scotrail is getting 7x 321s...

Certainly was proposed to happen with two transferring over initially. The first units in service in September was the last thing I'd heard.
Click to expand...

Certainly backs up what I have heard too.
 
swt455

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Just wanted to confirm if anyone else had heard any further news on this. I know at one point rumours were that units were transferring imminently. However, I have since heard that there are now 10x 319s moving to London Midland.

Does anyone have any ideas about this?

Thanks
 
Techniquest

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Nothing useful as such to add, but I have also received the rumour of 10 319s to LM. I can't yet figure out why they want 10, they don't have that many 321s (6 of them I think) so I'm in doubts of LM getting that many, unless more services or more doubling up is going to happen?

Considering it was previously suggested September would see 319s on LM, it's looking unlikely to happen then now it's July!
 
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northwichcat

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Techniquest said:
Nothing useful as such to add, but I have also received the rumour of 10 319s to LM. I can't yet figure out why they want 10, they don't have that many 321s (6 of them I think) so I'm in doubts of LM getting that many, unless more services or more doubling up is going to happen?

Considering it was previously suggested September would see 319s on LM, it's looking unlikely to happen then now it's July!
Click to expand...

Could there be another mini cascade planned? TPE could certainly do with a couple of extra 350s, while a couple of extra 323s for Northern's South Manchester services wouldn't come a miss.
 
D365

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Doubt that they'd be happy to give up newer units with superior performance characteristics and all that. Though stranger things have happened...
 
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