LNER announce CAF fleet

[800001]

Taken from LNER website, link below from announcement that 10 x 10 car CAF trains will be introduced from 2027, to replace the intercity 225 and provide some extra trains.

First Tri-Mode Long Distance Trains For The East Coast Main Line

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) is pleased to confirm that CAF has been named as the successful bidder to deliver a fleet of 10 new tri-mode trains for LNER. Porterbrook has been chosen as the financier of the new fleet. The trains will be able to operate in electric, battery or diesel mode.

www.lner.co.uk

London North Eastern Railway (LNER) is pleased to confirm that CAF has been named as the successful bidder to deliver a fleet of 10 new tri-mode trains for LNER. Porterbrook has been chosen as the financier of the new fleet. The trains will be able to operate in electric, battery or diesel mode.

Complementing the modern Azuma fleet of 65 trains, the new ten-coach trains will help LNER achieve its vision of becoming the most loved, progressive and trusted train operator in the UK, delivering an exceptional service for the customers and communities served along its 956-mile network.

 

[YorkRailFan]

I assume that these are using the 397s as a platform. Hopefully LNER can launch some new routes and/or increase frequency on others, but it will be very sad to say goodbye to the IC225s.

 

[gabrielhj07]

From the mock ups it looks like a tri mode 397

 

[yorksrob]

How does this sit with regard to UK train manufacture ?

With so much capacity about to be available, it would be a poor economic decision to manufacture abroad.

 

[gabrielhj07]

How does this sit with regard to UK train manufacture ?

With so much capacity about to be available, it would be a poor economic decision to manufacture abroad.

CAF have a place in Newport don’t they?

 

[Class15]

How does this sit with regard to UK train manufacture ?

With so much capacity about to be available, it would be a poor economic decision to manufacture abroad.

They will presumably be manufactured in Newport.

 

[YorkRailFan]

CAF have a place in Newport don’t they?

Yes, they build the 197s there and I believe that they built the 195s and 331s.

 

[Mzzzs]

Pleased and confused at the same time.
Nice to see we will have some variety.
Confused as i would have thought 80x would have been better it makes me think hitachi couldn't offer something caf could.

 

[yorksrob]

CAF have a place in Newport don’t they?

Yes, they build the 197s there and I believe that they built the 195s and 331s.

Good. Hopefully they'll be built there.

 

[Class15]

Pleased and confused at the same time.
Nice to see we will have some variety.
Confused as i would have thought 80x would have been better it makes me think hitachi couldn't offer something caf could.

Exactly - tri-mode capability.

It will be extremely sad to see the 225s go. Certainly an icon of the railways and they will be missed. At least their close cousins the class 90s should be surviving longer.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Pleased and confused at the same time.
Nice to see we will have some variety.
Confused as i would have thought 80x would have been better it makes me think hitachi couldn't offer something caf could.

Cost most likely and perhaps jobs in Wales.

 

[800001]

Pleased and confused at the same time.
Nice to see we will have some variety.
Confused as i would have thought 80x would have been better it makes me think hitachi couldn't offer something caf could.

Hitachi don’t offer a battery solution.

 

[trebor79]

What a load of guff in the press release. I'm not really sure how something with a load of diesel engines on board is going to reduce pollution and emissions compared to a 100% electric train.
I don't see how they can be quieter either, the Mk4 is a very quiet space to travel in.
Does anyone knwo if these trains will have a buffet bar?

 

[800001]

Yes, they build the 197s there and I believe that they built the 195s and 331s.

They built/assembled the 196 and 197s. Don’t think 331 were done there.

What a load of guff in the press release. I'm not really sure how something with a load of diesel engines on board is going to reduce pollution and emissions compared to a 100% electric train.
I don't see how they can be quieter either, the Mk4 is a very quiet space to travel in.
Does anyone knwo if these trains will have a buffet bar?

If they want them then same as the 80x fleet then yes I imagine they will.

 

[HST43257]

Pleased and confused at the same time.
Nice to see we will have some variety.
Confused as i would have thought 80x would have been better it makes me think hitachi couldn't offer something caf could.

I’m hardly well informed but I get the impression that Hitachi are very tough to deal with at the moment with potential demand for 80x, so I imagine prices could be painfully high with them.




I’m trying to work out where These units’ primary depot would be. Is there anywhere CAF do maintenance on/near the ECML? The 331s work out of Neville Hill but is that heavy maintenance and could these units be worked on from Leeds?

And with the recast around the corner (fairly soon IIRC?) does that mean the 91s remain until these are in service or an interim is found?

 

[43096]

So they’ve ordered trains from a different manufacturer than the current fleet because they’re hacked off with Hitachi. But have gone to a manufacturer that is at least as bad.

Frankly, they’ll deserve everything they get from having two fleets of steaming manure.

 

[Iskra]

Which routes do we think these will work on? There’s no mention of their range on battery power?

Seems a bit odd taking on a small fleet, which bucks the overall trend.

I assume this spells the end for the 91’s then too?

 

[800001]

I’m hardly well informed but I get the impression that Hitachi are very tough to deal with at the moment with potential demand for 80x, so I imagine prices could be painfully high with them.




I’m trying to work out where These units’ primary depot would be. Is there anywhere CAF do maintenance on/near the ECML? The 331s work out of Neville Hill but is that heavy maintenance and could these units be worked on from Leeds?

And with the recast around the corner (fairly soon IIRC?) does that mean the 91s remain until these are in service or an interim is found?

Neville Hill is where they will be based.91s around until 2028 latest!

 

[YorkRailFan]

Don’t think 331 were done there.

1 331 was assembled at Newport, rest at Zaragoza Spain.

 

[800001]

1 331 was built at Newport, rest at Zaragoza Spain.

Ah, never knew that.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Ah, never knew that.

Same here, looked on Wikipedia.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Yes, they build the 197s there and I believe that they built the 195s and 331s.

Assembled rather than "built", from largely imported components (including bodyshells).
They didn't do much work on Northern's 195/331s or TPE's 397s (which was mostly done in Spain), but did produce most of the 196/7s for TfW and WMR.

It must be a bit of a shock for Hitachi, currently monopolising the LNER fleet and all inter-city/high speed procurement.
Maintenance will be interesting, with CAF not having the depot facilities that Hitachi does on the route.
The trains will also not be subject to the restrictive IEP contract terms.
Also one in the eye for the "micro-fleet" detractors.
This is the first main line train order since Avanti bought their 80x fleet nearly 4 years ago, pre-Covid.

 

[fgwrich]

Pleased and confused at the same time.
Nice to see we will have some variety.
Confused as i would have thought 80x would have been better it makes me think hitachi couldn't offer something caf could.

I would also say this is a good indication of the bed Hitachi have made for themselves at the moment. More 80x were clearly at one point the likely choice, but reliability and the crack issue have taken their toll (and is likely to for some time to come) and CAF have obviously impressed enough to win the order.

 

[YorkRailFan]

Assembled rather than "built", from largely imported components (including bodyshells).

Will edit my comments.

 

[Neptune]

I’m trying to work out where These units’ primary depot would be. Is there anywhere CAF do maintenance on/near the ECML? The 331s work out of Neville Hill but is that heavy maintenance and could these units be worked on from Leeds?

Neville Hill maintain the 91/mk4 fleet for LNER and also the 331 fleet so probably doesn’t need much figuring out.

 

[YorkRailFan]

CAF have obviously impressed enough to win the order.

CAF was likely cheaper.

 

[800001]

Assembled rather than "built", from largely imported components (including bodyshells).
They didn't do much work on Northern's 195/331s or TPE's 397s (which was mostly done in Spain), but did produce most of the 196/7s for TfW and WMR.

It must be a bit of a shock for Hitachi, currently monopolising the LNER fleet.
Maintenance will be interesting, with CAF not having the depot facilities that Hitachi does on the route.
The trains will also not be subject to the restrictive IEP contract terms.
Also one in the eye for the "micro-fleet" detractors.
This is the first main line train order since Avanti bought their 80x fleet nearly 4 years ago, pre-Covid.

CAF visited Neville hill early 2022, they know what work is required for the depot to maintain this new fleet.

 

[Iskra]

Assembled rather than "built", from largely imported components (including bodyshells).
They didn't do much work on the Northern Civitys (which was mostly done in Spain), but did produce most of those for TfW and WMR.

It must be a bit of a shock for Hitachi, currently monopolising the LNER fleet.
Maintenance will be interesting, with CAF not having the depot facilities that Hitachi does on the route.
The trains will also not be subject to the restrictive IEP contract terms.
Also one in the eye for the "micro-fleet" detractors.
This is the first main line train order since Avanti bought their 80x fleet nearly 4 years ago, pre-Covid.

Yes, this is a ‘shot across the bows’ for Hitachi.

Yes, this is good news for the crayonista’s

Also very positive to see progress on the railway again.

Do we think the reduction of HS2 has released a load of short term funding behind the scenes? This week we’ve had 222 refresh, this train order and rumours of a pay deal? It’s great to be back on a positive footing!

 

[YorkRailFan]

Do we think the reduction of HS2 has released a load of short term funding behind the scenes? This week we’ve had 222 refresh, this train order and rumours of a pay deal? It’s great to be back on a positive footing!

Likely trying to distract from the cancellation of HS2.

 

[hux385]

This is really exciting! I think the 397s are fantastic trains, they look great and have massive windows Also very excited that they will be 10 coaches, makes so much more sense than having 2x5 car formations.