LNER Class 91/Mk4 service status/withdrawals/2021 refurbishment

[whg1070]

I see the first Skipton - Kings Cross has been a 91 recently. Is this now diagrammed? If so, on what days? Thanks in advance.

The up Skipton (1A13, the 0655 SKI-KGX) is now booked for a 91 on Mondays to Fridays. The down train (1D26, the 1803 KGX-SKI) is still an Azuma though on Mondays to Fridays.

Not sure about Saturdays.

 

[CW2]

The up Skipton (1A13, the 0655 SKI-KGX) is now booked for a 91 on Mondays to Fridays. The down train (1D26, the 1803 KGX-SKI) is still an Azuma though on Mondays to Fridays.

Not sure about Saturdays.

Thanks.

 

[87electric]

I heard that the eight Class 91s at GBRf Doncaster RMT have moved to Doncaster Wood Yard. Does anyone know when they went?

102, 104, 112, 113, 116, 118, 129, 131 are at Doncaster RMT.

115, 121, 125, 126, 132 are at Doncaster Belmont.

 

[Ec91109]

102, 104, 112, 113, 116, 118, 129, 131 are at Doncaster RMT.

115, 121, 125, 126, 132 are at Doncaster Belmont.

I can confirm all 8 of the Class 91s that were at Doncaster RMT have moved to Doncaster Belmont.

 

[VEP3417]

I think thats the default RTT description for LNER if it doesnt know for sure what train it is.

slightly off topic but are there any websites that give a little more info on workings like what type of traction it actually is going to be rather than "electric locomotive" for example or do you have to pay for that type of info as i know there are some websites you have to pay to use

 

[swt_passenger]

slightly off topic but are there any websites that give a little more info on workings like what type of traction it actually is going to be rather than "electric locomotive" for example or do you have to pay for that type of info as i know there are some websites you have to pay to use

Realtime trains will provide the information on the day, but only for the small minority of TOCs that make the info publically available. But as has been said many times, when looking at services in advance, RTT shows the planned “timing load”, not the booked stock. The specific unit or loco allocation doesn’t happen early enough to show up even a day ahead.

The timing info on RTT should be read as “this service is timed for such and such a stock or any other stock with equivalent or better performance”.

So as can be seen today, the LNER Glasgow to Kings Cross 1E06 that was being discussed yesterday (because it showed up as a loco hauled service as per post #1232), was actually operated by 801205

 

[E27007]

For the last years of service SR 3rd rail EMU, a number were were modified in the traction circuits, , the "Greyhound" modification, it boosted speed and acceleration, so the Greyhounds would romp up to for 100 mph.
What is the prospect for some sort of modifications during the Wabtec G exams to the remaining 91 locos to change their traction curve which is strong and near constant upto 90-95 mph which then drops away rapidly beyond 95 mph. It may help with stopping service diagrams when acceleration is required to pass through the last 30 mph before full linespeed.

 

[Ianno87]

Glasgow hasn't been worked by 225 sets since December, so it'll be an Azuma.

Pathing has nothing to do with the booked traction.

I think thats the default RTT description for LNER if it doesnt know for sure what train it is.

Entirely possible that there just aren't any 80x Sectional Running Times defined to/from Glasgow yet. As, for 1 train each way, there's no massive benefit from introducing them.

 

[VEP3417]

Realtime trains will provide the information on the day, but only for the small minority of TOCs that make the info publically available. But as has been said many times, when looking at services in advance, RTT shows the planned “timing load”, not the booked stock. The specific unit or loco allocation doesn’t happen early enough to show up even a day ahead.

The timing info on RTT should be read as “this service is timed for such and such a stock or any other stock with equivalent or better performance”.

So as can be seen today, the LNER Glasgow to Kings Cross 1E06 that was being discussed yesterday (because it showed up as a loco hauled service as per post #1232), was actually operated by 801205

thanks for the info, shame really but there we go, we will all have to keep guessing as to what trains might be

 

[whg1070]

thanks for the info, shame really but there we go, we will all have to keep guessing as to what trains might be

The current Monday to Friday class 91 diagrams seem to be as follows:

1A04, 0605 LDS-KGX
1N81, 0906 KGX-YRK
1Y84, 1202 YRK-KGX
1N87, 1506 KGX-YRK
1Y90, 1802 YRK-KGX

1D02, 0633 KGX-LDS
1A45, 1745 LDS-KGX

1A13, 0655 SKI-KGX
1D14, 1233 KGX-LDS
1A37, 1515 LDS-KGX
1D28, 1833 KGX-BDQ

1N80, 0706 KGX-YRK
1Y82, 1002 YRK-KGX
1N85, 1306 KGX-YRK
1Y88, 1603 YRK-KGX
1D29, 1903 KGX-LDS

The Class 91 Group Facebook page is usually good for precise allocations, as they are posted daily.

I hope this helps.

 

[Ianno87]

thanks for the info, shame really but there we go, we will all have to keep guessing as to what trains might be

Although the "on the day" info should be consistent day to day as per the booked diagrams (disruption excepted). If an 801 has worked the 1000 off Kings Cross on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday, it almost certainly will on Thursday and Friday too.

 

[Railperf]

Performance matters quite a bit - departing Kings Cross at xx06 they're minimum headway behind the xx03 Leeds. But on reaching York they're minimum headway in front of the xx30.

Get a bit of acceleration in and you create an xx27 path.

The xx. 06 path has way too much slack. Even 110mph class 90s could keep time as could HSTs with worse acceleration. You could run a sub 2 hr stopper using an Azuma.. But the ECML timetable rewrite is some way off. Hence better to use the Azumas on busier services.

Was the move to get 91s off Edinburgh services driven by cost savings not having to keep staff.. drivers etc.. up to speed with them?

 

[Speed43125]

Was the move to get 91s off Edinburgh services driven by cost savings not having to keep staff.. drivers etc.. up to speed with them?

The ability for 80x to operate and not need a thunderbird when wires come down, and be rescued by each other if one fails also contributed to limiting the geographic scope of the 91's operations.

 

[43096]

The ability for 80x to operate and not need a thunderbird when wires come down, and be rescued by each other if one fails also contributed to limiting the geographic scope of the 91's operations.

I must have imagined the 80x that was dumped on the main line for 24hrs because it couldn’t self rescue.

 

[Swimbar]

1S12 1030 KGX-EDB is now scheduled to be a 91 this morning

 

[43 302]

1S12 1030 KGX-EDB is now scheduled to be a 91 this morning

Operated by 91127 + BN08 and 1E22 1600 Edinburgh to Kings Cross return

 

[E27007]

The current Monday to Friday class 91 diagrams seem to be as follows:

1A04, 0605 LDS-KGX
1N81, 0906 KGX-YRK
1Y84, 1202 YRK-KGX
1N87, 1506 KGX-YRK
1Y90, 1802 YRK-KGX

1D02, 0633 KGX-LDS
1A45, 1745 LDS-KGX

1A13, 0655 SKI-KGX
1D14, 1233 KGX-LDS
1A37, 1515 LDS-KGX
1D28, 1833 KGX-BDQ

1N80, 0706 KGX-YRK
1Y82, 1002 YRK-KGX
1N85, 1306 KGX-YRK
1Y88, 1603 YRK-KGX
1D29, 1903 KGX-LDS

The Class 91 Group Facebook page is usually good for precise allocations, as they are posted daily.

I hope this helps.

Just returned from KX where i saw 911 09 Bobby Robson and 911 24, A service which departed KX @ 1745 platform 1 was hauled by 91124 , from RTT I think it is 1D25 Kx - Leeds.
The 1803 to Leeds and Skjpton off platform 4 was an Azuma and not a 91

 

[Swimbar]

Just returned from KX where i saw 911 09 Bobby Robson and 911 24, A service which departed KX @ 1745 platform 1 was hauled by 91124 , from RTT I think it is 1D25 Kx - Leeds.
The 1803 to Leeds and Skjpton off platform 4 was an Azuma and not a 91

The 1803 is normally an Azuma.
The morning SKI-KGX is a 91

 

[E27007]

The 1803 is normally an Azuma.
The morning SKI-KGX is a 91

The published diagrams vs actual workings of 91 services is something of a challenge for my comprehension, the alterations, is it due to non-availabity of Azuma sets (depot failures) and Control replanning the daily diagrams overnight before start of the day of service?

 

[xotGD]

1S12 1030 KGX-EDB is now scheduled to be a 91 this morning

Quite fitting really. 1S12 used to be the 05:50 King's Cross - Aberdeen, one of the last regular Deltic turns.

It's like 1981 all over again.

 

[route101]

Quite fitting really. 1S12 used to be the 05:50 King's Cross - Aberdeen, one of the last regular Deltic turns.

It's like 1981 all over again.

Yes , was surprised to see the MK4 set at Edinburgh.

How long is the MK4 set from Skipton set to run?
Wouldn't mind a trip on that route on 91.

 

[Skimble19]

Are there any plans for repainting / revyniling these trains as they are looking rather scruffy?

Also interested to know if these overhauls will include this. The mk4s in particular are starting to look extremely scruffy.

 

[OmniCity999]

Also interested to know if these overhauls will include this. The mk4s in particular are starting to look extremely scruffy.

DFT issued livery coming right up...

 

[E27007]

If anyone has the Sunday diagrams for class 91 work, please publish them, thank you.

 

[800001]

DFT issued livery coming right up...
[/QUOTE="OmniCity999, post: 4780447, member: 59840"]
DFT issued livery coming right up...

Which is what they have now..... That livery is here to stay

 

[43 302]

Which is what they have now..... That livery is here to stay

The livery is here to stay. But it is still the VTEC livery and has nothing to do with LNER.

 

[Swimbar]

A 91 on a day trip to Edinburgh again today!
1S08 0830 KGX - EDB
1E18 1400 EDB - KGX

 

[Speed43125]

A 91 on a day trip to Edinburgh again today!
1S08 0830 KGX - EDB
1E18 1400 EDB - KGX

Nice to hear. How long before the thunderbird locos go away?

 

[800001]

Nice to hear. How long before the thunderbird locos go away?

Newcastle and Edinburgh off lease end September

 

[SteveyBee131]

Nothing is impossible while there's still crew with the relevant route and traction knowledge.

N.B. I'm not employed by the railway, so please don't take this as fact. Just going on things I've seen in the past