LNER Considering Requiring Passengers to Check-in Before Travel

[Bletchleyite]

4. How is a boarding pass any different to a ticket? My KLM passes are legitimately exactly the same as my Avanti tickets... Just a pass on my phone.

They are essentially the same thing (give or take a reservation coupon). The reason airlines don't use the word "ticket" is that that has very specific meanings in terms of various international air travel related treaties and IATA rules - giving rise to "e-ticketed" and "ticketless" airlines, which are different things in the back-end but are the same so far as the passenger sees.

Exactly... On the DB navigator app. It is brilliant and optional too. SJ does it also, at least from what I could tell from my X2000 trip a few years ago.

With compulsory reservations you don't necessarily need to care whether someone sat in a given seat has a ticket or not. If you know which seats are supposed to be occupied and which not, that's all you really need to check. OK, there might be a fare dodger sat in a seat booked by someone else who didn't show up, but that's relatively unlikely and indeed not overly worth worrying about as the seat has been paid for anyway.

 

[DB]

Not much of a selling point when turn-up-and-go fares are so expensive.

Well, given the number of passegers in normal circumstances it clearly works! Particularly over relatively short distances - which is the point here. Nobody is objecting to them selling advance tickets. The problem is introducing a system where you can't just turn up and go.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Well, given the number of passegers in normal circumstances it clearly works! Particularly over relatively short distances - which is the point here. Nobody is objecting to them selling advance tickets. The problem is introducing a system where you can't just turn up and go.

And as is being repeatedly pointed out it isn't a system where you can't just turn up and go in the vast majority of cases. On all the European compulsory reservations operators you can rock up and buy a ticket from the TVM or booking office for the next train. It's effectively just a standee ban, which is needed for COVID really anyway.

Changing the pricing structure so rocking up on the day becomes impossibly expensive, or so that reservations aren't changeable once booked, is a different discussion entirely. You can do either without the other.

To give you examples:
- DB allows standing and reservations are optional, but they only offer one[1] walk-up fare level which is quite expensive. So walk-up travel can be pricey.
- The Malaysian state railway, I forget what it's called, requires reservations but tickets are fixed price for a given class of travel, route and train type.

[1] Actually I think it varies by day of the week now, but this is neither here nor there - it is quite expensive, which is what matters.

 

[DB]

You overrate the usage of such short hops on LNER - aside from York - Doncaster and Durham - Newcastle, LNER is almost exclusively a long distance railway.

It's really not - why do think they introduced the London-York stoppers a few years ago, stopping at most of the stations? All of them get a good number of passengers, many only travelling a station or two.

And as is being repeatedly pointed out it isn't a system where you can't just turn up and go in the vast majority of cases. On all the European compulsory reservations operators you can rock up and buy a ticket from the TVM or booking office for the next train. It's effectively just a standee ban, which is needed for COVID really anyway.

Changing the pricing structure so rocking up on the day becomes impossibly expensive is a different discussion entirely. You can do either without the other.

Again, you are missing the point that it's an extra step - and you might get told 'tough, it's full'. This sort of hassle will put off many short-distance passengers who want flexibility without hassle. In no way is this going to tempt such people back to the railways.

 

[43096]

[1] Actually I think it varies by day of the week now, but this is neither here nor there - it is quite expensive, which is what matters.

Which is probably pretty irrelevant: the one-off traveller will likely book in advance, regulars will probably have a BahnCard of some sort so won’t be paying full whack.

 

[kez19]

I just done an example for Dundee to Newcastle, i'm at least £158 in total return for the Anytime Single tickets, I be better off definately split ticketing! (21st-25 September), I am not being offered anything cheaper via their website, I be better off booking on trainline/split ticket sites.

I know it might not be relevant as such to this thread but it doesn't help me for the time being....

 

[mmh]

1. That’s why I said ‘some’ IC Services. I understand that some IC operators operate local services, which is why I say some.

There are no IC operators in Britain who don't provide local services, and very few individual trains which don't - just a handful of peak time trains.

 

[Robertj21a]

I just done an example for Dundee to Newcastle, i'm at least £158 in total return for the Anytime Single tickets, I be better off definately split ticketing! (21st-25 September), I am not being offered anything cheaper via their website, I be better off booking on trainline/split ticket sites.

I know it might not be relevant as such to this thread but it doesn't help me for the time being....

Time for the car or coach......

 

[kez19]

Time for the car or coach......

From where I am if it was a coach it be longer and I would have to travel to Glasgow to connect be twice as long to get there, connections the further up north into Scotland becomes more of a mess, train is easier to an extent but I at least now I have learnt that I could go either way via Edinburgh or Glasgow.

I was surprised by that price for a random return but yet same dates but go via split ticketing its at least £80-£90 (strange that!)

 

[WestRiding]

Great. Another way to slowly kill the Railway that passengers are not using as it is.

 

[peteb]

I just done an example for Dundee to Newcastle, i'm at least £158 in total return for the Anytime Single tickets, I be better off definately split ticketing! (21st-25 September), I am not being offered anything cheaper via their website, I be better off booking on trainline/split ticket sites.

I know it might not be relevant as such to this thread but it doesn't help me for the time being....

Have you tried via Carlisle, that route though longer is often cheaper? Splitting tickets obviously.

 

[kez19]

Have you tried via Carlisle, that route though longer is often cheaper? Splitting tickets obviously.

I did look into this as a factor too (irony!), I kind of had a bit of this conversation on my own LNER query thread lol ... but yes I would be longer but bit cheaper too (its about the same if I remember going via Glasgow/Carlisle route) but being at least 5 hours...

Just done that ... and £82.60 is one of the prices quoted... so even though on the LNER website has "blocked" I will say for pricing properly my only option and especially in a months time for tickets to be out I may well have to opt for split ticketing this time than be booking them more direct (even though I probably will be using their services at somepoint on a journey)

 

[peteb]

Have you tried via Carlisle, that route though longer is often cheaper? Splitting tickets obviously.

I found a combination of anytime and off peak returns via Carlisle gets you there and back for about £110, no restrictions to specific trains. That assumes early morning from Dundee mid afternoon return from Newcastle. Avoids ECML altogether if you use Scotrail from Dundee.

I found a combination of anytime and off peak returns via Carlisle gets you there and back for about £110, no restrictions to specific trains. That assumes early morning from Dundee mid afternoon return from Newcastle. Avoids ECML altogether if you use Scotrail from Dundee.

That's via Edinburgh not Glasgow, but naturally quite a slow journey.

 

[kez19]

I found a combination of anytime and off peak returns via Carlisle gets you there and back for about £110, no restrictions to specific trains. That assumes early morning from Dundee mid afternoon return from Newcastle. Avoids ECML altogether if you use Scotrail from Dundee.


That's via Edinburgh not Glasgow, but naturally quite a slow journey.

If I had to go Glasgow got no real issue there as I am a bit familar with Central and the Carlisle station (not greatly I admit on Carlisle) but with Edinburgh I just find it a maze and not one of the easiest to get round in particular!, but I would still use either if need be.

Maybe one other option is either head down one way and return back normal route or vice versa (never seen that part of Scotland down to Carlisle), it be different thats for sure!

 

[Butts]

Why didn't they resurrect East Coast rather than changing to LNER when the Government took over again !!

Talking of benefits as someone did above bring back The Rewards Scheme that was very popular with people on here and I'm sure others.

This could encourage people to start frequenting their services again.

 

[mmh]

Why didn't they resurrect East Coast rather than changing to LNER when the Government took over again !!

Talking of benefits as someone did above bring back The Rewards Scheme that was very popular with people on here and I'm sure others.

This could encourage people to start frequenting their services again.

It was very popular with one person on here. Loyalty schemes are window dressing, and not a realistic way to attract passengers to the railway. Fares, reliability, convenience and a lack of arbitrary barriers to use on the other hand...

 

[YorksLad12]

Why didn't they resurrect East Coast rather than changing to LNER when the Government took over again !!

Talking of benefits as someone did above bring back The Rewards Scheme that was very popular with people on here and I'm sure others.

This could encourage people to start frequenting their services again.

Are they not? They don't offer Nectar points any more. I thought a new 'thing' was on its way?

It was very popular with one person on here. Loyalty schemes are window dressing, and not a realistic way to attract passengers to the railway. Fares, reliability, convenience and a lack of arbitrary barriers to use on the other hand...

Loyalty programmes are ways of capturing passenger data so you can target them with things you want to sell, so I'd expect to see one coming soon. Otherwise, no-one would have a reason to visit the LNER website to book travel.

 

[317 forever]

I do wonder. First it's compulsory reservations, next checking in prior to travel. One of the questions was about how long before departure you should arrive at the station...

I fear travelling by train could become more complicated....

From April 1st next year they could require us to bring our passports with us

 

[Bletchleyite]

From April 1st next year they could require us to bring our passports with us

April 1st?

In all seriousness that could happen, but in reality any Scottish independence would take longer to resolve than Brexit so you've got a while, and more likely it'd join the CTA than Schengen, so still no passports.

 

[317 forever]

A car remains much more dangerous than taking the train, even factoring in Covid.



Short journeys on LNER, such as Grantham to Newark are used by many turn up and go passengers and are not expensive.

Yes, although we wouldn't have to share our car with any strangers, other factors make car travel more dangerous. More traffic, more risks of RTAs or people getting run over. Also, worse pollution leading to potential other respiratory illness for people instead of (or even in addition to) Covid.

 

[Newshound Mutt]

I guess that makes the rover tickets redundant then?

 

[Ianno87]

I guess that makes the rover tickets redundant then?

No, you just need to request seat reservations to travel on LNER services.

 

[6Gman]

No, you just need to request seat reservations to travel on LNER services.

It rather depends on how you use Rover Tickets. Personally, I often just see what turns up then jump aboard, or wait for the next one, or go off in a completely different direction.

 

[yorkie]

Can we please stay reasonably on topic.

The forum as plenty of spare capacity for people to create threads on any other topic

(Edit: some posts moved to https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...orkers-to-travel-by-car-than-by-train.209067/ )

 

[43096]

No, you just need to request seat reservations to travel on LNER services.

Which rather negates the point of rover tickets in the first place.

 

[Ianno87]

Which rather negates the point of rover tickets in the first place.

It really doesn't.

 

[43096]

It really doesn't.

I refer you to the second line of your signature. Making reservations compulsory is a restriction on the use of rovers - the whole point of them is the flexibility to be able to go where you want or change your plans at a moment's notice. Even LNER's own website says so!

Rangers and Rovers

Enjoy unlimited train travel within a certain area with National Rail's Rangers & Rovers, tickets that give you the freedom to go wherever you want.

www.lner.co.uk

Ranger and Rover tickets offer travel within a specified area for a day or a few days, so they’re very handy for days out and short breaks. They're a little bit different in every region, just to give them a bit of local character.
WHAT IS A RANGER TICKET?
A Day Ranger ticket lets you jump on and off the train as much as you like within a particular area.
There may be a few time restrictions on when you can travel, so it’s always worth checking before you put on your stout walking shoes.

WHAT IS A ROVER TICKET?
Rover tickets let you travel all over a region for a few days at a time, or several days in a certain time period, like three days in a week, or eight days in a fifteen day period.

 

[Newshound Mutt]

The whole point of a rover ticket is the flexibility. If you have to plan in advance, you may as well buy advanced tickets with reservations. Most people who use rover tickets travel by impulse.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The whole point of a rover ticket is the flexibility. If you have to plan in advance, you may as well buy advanced tickets with reservations. Most people who use rover tickets travel by impulse.

And unless the train is full you can still get a reservation when you get to the station. OK, there is a risk of it being full, but if you're being spur-of-the-moment your plan isn't important so you just change it.

 

[E27007]

Are LNER trawling for data for passenger travel for SHOW/NO-SHOW situations? If LNER have a 100% seat reservation policy as per Air travel, then use the Show/No-show factor to operate a policy of seat overbooking, selling more tickets for travel than the seating capacity of the train and the 'No-shows' cover the overbooking , the Air travel industry have been pulling the stunt for decades.