LNER diversion via Carlisle

[trebor79]

Just realised the LNER service I'm about to get to Newcastle is an Edinburgh service diverted via Carlise.
I'm actually going to Glasgow, and my itinerary is to change at Newcastle to a Carlisle service, then onto an Avanti service to Glasgow.
The LNER isn't advertised on the departure boards as calling at Carlisle, but I can see from Traksy that is it due to sit there for 20 minutes and I could make an earlier connection to Glasgow if I stay on it.
I'm on an off-peak return, so no issue about ticket validity, just wondering if the doors will actually open at Carlisle?

 

[omnicity4659]

Just realised the LNER service I'm about to get to Newcastle is an Edinburgh service diverted via Carlise.
I'm actually going to Glasgow, and my itinerary is to change at Newcastle to a Carlisle service, then onto an Avanti service to Glasgow.
The LNER isn't advertised on the departure boards as calling at Carlisle, but I can see from Traksy that is it due to sit there for 20 minutes and I could make an earlier connection to Glasgow if I stay on it.
I'm on an off-peak return, so no issue about ticket validity, just wondering if the doors will actually open at Carlisle?

The doors have opened at Carlisle on all occasions when I've been diverted through there.

 

[trebor79]

The doors have opened at Carlisle on all occasions when I've been diverted through there.

Thanks. The displays on the train are advertising a Carlisle stop.
The train is full and standing however, so I might bail out at Newcastle anyway and trade half an hour in my hotel for a seat for a couple of hours!

 

[robbeech]

According to RTT, those LNER services are still in the timetable as reservation compulsory. I'm not sure if that is what is (or is contributing to) preventing them showing up on a journey planner.

They DO stop at Carlisle to pickup and set down passengers and usually have an extended dwell time, whether this is just generic padding or a hangover from the days when the Class 91 and MkIV sets were dragged from Newcastle.

 

[Ianno87]

According to RTT, those LNER services are still in the timetable as reservation compulsory. I'm not sure if that is what is (or is contributing to) preventing them showing up on a journey planner.

They DO stop at Carlisle to pickup and set down passengers and usually have an extended dwell time, whether this is just generic padding or a hangover from the days when the Class 91 and MkIV sets were dragged from Newcastle.

"Padding" = necessary pathing time to join up the Tyne Valley path with the WCML path.

 

[Merseysider]

Mine stopped and opened doors at Carlisle yesterday. The internal scrolling information screen also showed the call at Carlisle.

 

[trebor79]

Train is reverse formation, so hoping for a bit of High Level Bridge action at Newcastle to turn it, assuming 80x are cleared for it.

 

[_toommm_]

I wouldn’t pin your hopes of getting off in Carlisle. Whilst my train from Edinburgh last week opened its doors at Carlisle, the train to Edinburgh didn’t. It will definitely stop there as it changes from diesel to OHLE or vice versa, but like I say I wouldn’t guarantee it.

 

[greyman42]

I wouldn’t pin your hopes of getting off in Carlisle. Whilst my train from Edinburgh last week opened its doors at Carlisle, the train to Edinburgh didn’t. It will definitely stop there as it changes from diesel to OHLE or vice versa, but like I say I wouldn’t guarantee it.

Wouldn't having a word with the guard help?

 

[mmh]

Wouldn't having a word with the guard help?

Indeed. Ask and decide based on what you're told!

 

[_toommm_]

Wouldn't having a word with the guard help?

Depends how amenable they are I guess, because officially it’s not a passenger stop and it’s announced as such every time I’ve done the diversion since the passenger timings were removed.

 

[43096]

Depends how amenable they are I guess, because officially it’s not a passenger stop and it’s announced as such every time I’ve done the diversion since the passenger timings were removed.

If the displays on the train say it is calling at Carlisle, that's a very good argument to say that the doors should be opened.

 

[trebor79]

I fancy a stretch of my legs anyway. It would have been a chance to sample some of TPEs new stock instead of a Pendo, but there'll be another time I guess.
The automated announcer is announcing Carlisle as a calling point. Can't remember what the guard said in a manual announcement. The Auto announcer also thinks the train is going Aberdeen (it definitely isn't) though...
Guard harrassed enough with some dreadful woman making a mountain out of the fact she hasn't been able to sit in her resevered seat because reservations are cancelled and how disgusting it is and how can this happen and blah blah blah. All this whilst actually being sat in a seat, FGS! Guard dealt with it quite well, but I don't want to add to her hassle on what has no doubt been a trying shift.

 

[Spartacus]

I think if it's on time they're almost certain to be opened, or if not would be with a quick ask. If it's running late that's another matter entirely as it's not technically booked to call there for passengers.

On a related matter, there used to be a Glasgow - Scarborough service, which ran round at York. Technically booked to run round on the through lines and not call at York, it would usually do it in one of the platform roads, and so offered a convenient train to York for many people 'in the know'. (Being a regular Class 40 hauled service was an attraction too ) Inevitably though there were occasions when people had an unscheduled trip to Malton when it did as booked and didn't use a platform at York!

 

[trebor79]

Guard walked past so I asked her. She wasn't sure as she was getting off at Newcastle and doesn't sign via Carlisle. Said she would ask the oncoming guard. She came back a few minutes later to say it would be fine - she'd texted the new guard and he said fine so long as I have a ticket.
Then new guard announced very clearly "Edinburgh only" explained the train would be via Carlisle and take longer but would call Edinburgh only "please make sure you are on the right train".
So I bailed. A 156 along the Tyne Valley Line for me.

 

[Ianigsy]

Interesting- I was under the impression that the rationale for making Carlisle a passenger stop was precisely to allow travellers between the ECML and Glasgow to pick up a direct train rather than having to zigzag across the Borders.

 

[timj]

I did the LNER TYne Valley Autumn diversions in 2 recent years 2017 and 2018 I think and just simply bought a day return from Newcastle to Carlisle, the trains were certainly in the timetable and stopped / doors opened etc, has something changed? Both years though it was mainly HST's with a couple of Cl 91 / Mk4 trains dragged by Cl67 Royal Sovereign.

Has the change to Azumas necessitated taking the Carlisle stop out?

 

[trebor79]

Interesting- I was under the impression that the rationale for making Carlisle a passenger stop was precisely to allow travellers between the ECML and Glasgow to pick up a direct train rather than having to zigzag across the Borders.

Has the change to Azumas necessitated taking the Carlisle stop out?

Indeed, it would have saved me half an hour.
It seems it used to be a booked passenger call but that is no longer the case for whatever reason. Guard I spoke to said it wasn't a passenger stop but that they have to release the doors for crew.
It does seem a bit of an omission given it sits there for 20 minutes but I'm sure there's a good reason for it.

 

[OliverH68]

Train is reverse formation, so hoping for a bit of High Level Bridge action at Newcastle to turn it, assuming 80x are cleared for it.

They are cleared for it but not going that way this year. They are turning via the Edinburgh Suburban after Slateford this time round.

 

[43094]

All services will stop at Carlisle in both directions.

All will require a Driver change there. Most (but not necessarily all) will require a Train Manager change, too.

Until the onset of an Azuma-only railway, all planned diverted ECML services were ‘open stop’ there.

Now, following an internal review (the details of which I don’t want to go into) all services stop for crew relief and/or pathing only - the stop is not advertised to customers. There may be some services where the crew do release all the doors, but this can’t be guaranteed on the day.

Unfortunately the train software sometimes still thinks otherwise….

 

[MadMac]

They are cleared for it but not going that way this year. They are turning via the Edinburgh Suburban after Sleaford this time round.

I presume you meant Slateford?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Presumably the West Coast TOCs don't want their Carlisle-Edinburgh revenue diluted by the LNER diversions.
The recent fare spats between them (ie London-Edinburgh singles not being interchangeable) can't have helped.
Something to be airbrushed away by GBR perhaps?

 

[Mag_seven]

Now, following an internal review (the details of which I don’t want to go into) all services stop for crew relief and/or pathing only - the stop is not advertised to customers.

A backwards step - the call was always useful for interchange for people heading direct to Glasgow from ECML stations.

 

[_toommm_]

All services will stop at Carlisle in both directions.

All will require a Driver change there. Most (but not necessarily all) will require a Train Manager change, too.

Until the onset of an Azuma-only railway, all planned diverted ECML services were ‘open stop’ there.

Now, following an internal review (the details of which I don’t want to go into) all services stop for crew relief and/or pathing only - the stop is not advertised to customers. There may be some services where the crew do release all the doors, but this can’t be guaranteed on the day.

Unfortunately the train software sometimes still thinks otherwise….

It didn’t handle very well the 08:30 on Sundays that starts at Leeds and goes to Aberdeen. The PIS only wanted to show the train going as far as Newcastle, and it said that until we got to Carlisle where it either got fixed or the PIS realised where it was and what it was doing.

 

[zero]

I did this to ride the Edinburgh suburban - on the northbound got turfed out at Carlisle because the incoming guard was late. On the southbound the guard kept saying "the automated announcements are wrong".

 

[ainsworth74]

Auto-announcements certainly did seem to be struggling. On the northbound the train merrily announced we had reached our final destination of Newcastle and the train terminated here. When the TM finally persuaded it that we were going to Aberdeen it also announced Carlisle without the doors opening (as previously noted). It also announced us as shortly arriving at Edinburgh when we had just joined the Sub and were still about twenty-five minutes from actually arriving at the station! Southbound the train insisted we were going to Kings Cross despite only actually going to Doncaster.

Must admit if the TMs have the power I think I'd have just switched the ruddy thing off and done it the old fashioned way. It would have been more accurate and useful.

 

[JoeM1V]

Assuming the stop at Carlisle isn’t one where passengers can get on or off, Newcastle-Edinburgh via Carlisle is around 3h10 between stops.

Is this the longest time between stops on a scheduled, daytime train in the UK?

 

[stantheman]

How and where do they change power mode for the Edinburgh sub ?

 

[ainsworth74]

How and where do they change power mode for the Edinburgh sub ?

Heading to Edinburgh the diesels kicked in on the move shortly before Slateford and then ran on diesel all the way into Waverly. Leaving it was diesel from Waverley and then the diesels switched off shortly after Slateford on the move.

 

[greyman42]

Perhaps LNER do not want local Newcastle to/from Carlisle passengers joining the already busy/full trains.
Do LNER get any revenue from tickets for Newcastle to Carlisle?