• Dear Guest, and welcome to RailUK Forums. Our non-railway discussion forums are currently restricted until members have five or more posts, and you will not be able to make a new thread or reply to an existing one in this section until you have made five or more posts elsewhere on the forum.

LNER "requesting" people wear facemasks 100% of the time on their stations and trains

43066

On Moderation
Joined
24 Nov 2019
Messages
2,640
Location
London
I notice Euston now has a pre-recorded PA encouraging people to wear masks "out of respect for others". What's doubly irritating is it's been recorded using the male version of the two utterly cringeworthy voices which have been heard on NR stations since this all kicked off.

Horrendous. I don’t use Euston much, thankfully. There don’t seem to be too many recorded announcements at Pancras/Kings +. Or maybe there are but I subconsciously drown them out!

Meanwhile, TfL had the mask compliance enforcement officers at Edgware today, second time I've seen them there recently, though they didn't seem to be doing much. Perhaps they sensed it was a losing battle, since 50-75% of people weren't wearing masks, and were simply strolling past.

I’m not sure what they can really do. Clearly there’s no longer any basis to issue penalties or report people for prosecution. I suppose they could fall back on simply telling people to leave, but that’s hardly practical when 50% of passengers are maskless.

Staring on in impotent rage is about the extent of it I suspect…

I really object to all this passive-aggressive stuff.

Likewise. Covid really has brought the worst out of so many people.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,132
Location
Yorkshire
Only to a certain type of person.
Yes, sensible normal people!

Linguist Ben Zimmer found people in old Usenet groups explaining that all-caps meant yelling as far back as 1984. What’s more intriguing is that capitals were available for emphasis long before the internet as well. The linguist John McWhorter dates shouty caps back to pianist and writer Philippa Schuyler in the 1940s, while author L. M. Montgomery has a character use both capitals and italics for emphasis in her fictional diary entries of the 1920s, which another character criticizes as “Early Victorian”— meaning old-fashionedly melodramatic, even back then. Going yet further back, a newspaper in 1856 described a line of dialog with the phrase “This time he shouted it out in capital letters.”
Though it's generally considered rude to use all caps, there are times when it's appropriate, just as it's sometimes appropriate to raise your voice when speaking....
...the idea of all-caps being seen as something forceful or loud isn't a new development -- there are texts going back as far as the 1800s that make this association.

Make no mistake, the use of all caps was deliberately done to indicate forcefulness as it was written by authoritarians who know exactly what they are doing.

The intention is clearly to push peoples buttons and it's certainly achieved that.

From travelling on GWR and SWR today as well as TFL services, and throughout the week visiting many towns across the Midlands-ish area (Northampton, Banbury and Coventry), yesterday Chatham and Gillingham and today in Windsor I have to say the number of people wearing masks on public transport and generally is quite high.

I have only heard the announcements on occasion on the TOCs occasionally and they were definitely not aggressive at all.

Maybe this is an issue on certain TOCs and in certain areas the number of people wearing masks is really low. In my experience of the last week, not so much in the areas that I have visited but definitely less than before.
Just a gentle reminder the thread for observations is at https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/19th-july-lockdown-easing-observations-and-compliance.220043/ ; I will post my response there.
 

Hadders

Established Member
Senior Fares Advisor
Joined
27 Apr 2011
Messages
8,938
No face mask announcements on LNER between Wakefield and Stevenage this afternoon but after every station call the guard made an announcement apologising for the non working air conditioning on coach C and saying that passengers could move to any other seat in standard class but as the train ‘is extraordinarily busy you won’t be able to find a socially distanced seat and will probably have to sit next to another passenger’.
 

Huntergreed

Established Member
Joined
16 Jan 2016
Messages
2,090
Location
Coach J Seat 39
No face mask announcements on LNER between Wakefield and Stevenage this afternoon but after every station call the guard made an announcement apologising for the non working air conditioning on coach C and saying that passengers could move to any other seat in standard class but as the train ‘is extraordinarily busy you won’t be able to find a socially distanced seat and will probably have to sit next to another passenger’.
That is disappointing, especially as any need to social distance was clearly ended on 19th July.

We cannot go on like this. We have a country who has been terrified into submission by a government who pushed far too hard with scare-mongering and alarmist messaging needlessly (compliance was higher than they expected, even without all the “look him in the eyes” ****show)

Looking at other countries, it seems clear to me that we have one of Europe’s (if not then the world’s) most terrified populations, yet we’re doing absolutely nothing to fix this (because doing so would admit the government went too far and be political suicide).

We’re caught in a trap, there really is no easy way out of this. Governments will not back down, devolved nations are trying to outdo each other with petty safety measures to reassure their population and score political points, and the nation is more politically divided than I ever though possible.

I don’t like to say it, but I can’t see a pleasant, easy way out of this at all.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
13,171
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
That is disappointing, especially as any need to social distance was clearly ended on 19th July.

We cannot go on like this. We have a country who has been terrified into submission by a government who pushed far too hard with scare-mongering and alarmist messaging needlessly (compliance was higher than they expected, even without all the “look him in the eyes” ****show)

Looking at other countries, it seems clear to me that we have one of Europe’s (if not then the world’s) most terrified populations, yet we’re doing absolutely nothing to fix this (because doing so would admit the government went too far and be political suicide).

We’re caught in a trap, there really is no easy way out of this. Governments will not back down, devolved nations are trying to outdo each other with petty safety measures to reassure their population and score political points, and the nation is more politically divided than I ever though possible.

I don’t like to say it, but I can’t see a pleasant, easy way out of this at all.

I think the only way out is time. As time goes on more and more people will grow tired of all this.

The hardcores will do everything they can to keep it going though.

I’m not even sure it’s that people are terrified any more, that seems to have been overtaken by concepts such as respect, worshipping the health service, virtue signalling, and the like.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,132
Location
Yorkshire
I agree but sadly the likes of LNER are making it take a lot longer than it needs to, by pandering to the hysterical brigade

They really need to move on and let people make their own choice.

I see some passengers are pressuring LNER over the fact the majority of people on their trains are unmasked, some even resorting to taking photos of people around them to prove this point, as if LNER don't know the majority are unmasked and as if it's evidence of wrongdoing on the part of passengers who are exercising their right to be unmasked.

This makes me realise even more how important it is we stop this charade and get back to normal sooner rather than later.

We are a very divided society and the messaging by LNER is making this worse, not better.
 

island

Veteran Member
Joined
30 Dec 2010
Messages
12,599
Location
0036
I agree but sadly the likes of LNER are making it take a lot longer than it needs to, by pandering to the hysterical brigade

They really need to move on and let people make their own choice.
I agree. Thankfully Southeastern, my local TOC, is being mostly sensible, though a few units still play the automated announcement threatening £6,400 fines.
I see some passengers are pressuring LNER over the fact the majority of people on their trains are unmasked, some even resorting to taking photos of people around them to prove this point, as if LNER don't know the majority are unmasked and as if it's evidence of wrongdoing on the part of passengers who are exercising their right to be unmasked.
Anyone taking such photos ought to be dealt with for breaches of byelaw 6 (8) and I would not hesitate to text 61016 to report it,
This makes me realise even more how important it is we stop this charade and get back to normal sooner rather than later.

We are a very divided society and the messaging by LNER is making this worse, not better.
I agree.
 

Philip

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
2,361
Location
Manchester
That is disappointing, especially as any need to social distance was clearly ended on 19th July.

We cannot go on like this. We have a country who has been terrified into submission by a government who pushed far too hard with scare-mongering and alarmist messaging needlessly (compliance was higher than they expected, even without all the “look him in the eyes” ****show)

Looking at other countries, it seems clear to me that we have one of Europe’s (if not then the world’s) most terrified populations, yet we’re doing absolutely nothing to fix this (because doing so would admit the government went too far and be political suicide).

We’re caught in a trap, there really is no easy way out of this. Governments will not back down, devolved nations are trying to outdo each other with petty safety measures to reassure their population and score political points, and the nation is more politically divided than I ever though possible.

I don’t like to say it, but I can’t see a pleasant, easy way out of this at all.

I wouldn't say the reluctance to sit next to someone else on the train or bus is because of the pandemic; it was like this beforehand.
 

Philip

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2007
Messages
2,361
Location
Manchester
Thete is nothing remotely respectful about following ineffective, silly rituals as a sop to hypochondriacs and health paranoiacs.

If people want to wear face coverings then they shouldn't be judged the way you are judging them. It's a bit of pot calling kettle black complaining about dirty looks being given to people not wearing them and being called inconsiderate etc, yet you're being derogatory here towards the people who are wearing them!
 

43066

On Moderation
Joined
24 Nov 2019
Messages
2,640
Location
London
If people want to wear face coverings then they shouldn't be judged the way you are judging them. It's a bit of pot calling kettle black complaining about dirty looks being given to people not wearing them and being called inconsiderate etc, yet you're being derogatory here towards the people who are wearing them!

You appear to be arguing with a strawman.

I’ve not passed any judgment over people choosing to wear masks. I’ve simply said their choosing to do so is not inherently “respectful”. Any more than my not wearing one is “disrespectful”.

We really do need to get rid of this nonsense before it becomes permanently entrenched, a la certain Far Eastern countries.
 

bramling

Veteran Member
Joined
5 Mar 2012
Messages
13,171
Location
Hertfordshire / Teesdale
Urgghhh. What a horrible concept.

Respect is indeed horrible. To me it implies jumped up self-importance on the part of the person clamouring for it. The modern definition of respect seems to be more akin to worship.

Consideration is a rather healthier concept.
 

Green tractor

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2019
Messages
215
Location
Lancaster
This makes me realise even more how important it is we stop this charade and get back to normal sooner rather than later.
Is life not back to normal? What is it you want to do that you now cant?

You appear to be arguing with a strawman.

I’ve not passed any judgment over people choosing to wear masks. I’ve simply said their choosing to do so is not inherently “respectful”. Any more than my not wearing one is “disrespectful”.

We really do need to get rid of this nonsense before it becomes permanently entrenched, a la certain Far Eastern countries.
But why does it matter if certain people choose to wear masks? I think you will find there will be a minority who when they have a cold etc will in future wear masks.
 

seagull

Member
Joined
28 Feb 2011
Messages
305
Why does it matter if certain people choose to wear masks? I think you will find there will be a minority who when they have a cold etc will in future wear masks.

Perhaps because of decades, nay, centuries, of culture where wearing a cloth face covering or mask was for highwaymen and bandits, and those undertaking nefarious activities. And more recently, surgical activities.
Until or unless there's a good reason for people to wear thin cloth/paper face coverings or masks routinely, any who do would normally be viewed with suspicion, under normal circumstances.
 

Cdd89

Member
Joined
8 Jan 2017
Messages
706
Is life not back to normal? What is it you want to do that you now cant?
Sit on a train without endless announcements about face coverings, and the majority of passengers feeling pressured into complying with those announcements. I thought that was obvious from the thread title :)

By the way I can list several things I want to do but legally can’t as a result of ongoing UK Covid restrictions, but that’s probably best in another thread!
 

Green tractor

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2019
Messages
215
Location
Lancaster
Sit on a train without endless announcements about face coverings, and the majority of passengers feeling pressured into complying with those announcements. I thought that was obvious from the thread title :)

By the way I can list several things I want to do but legally can’t as a result of ongoing UK Covid restrictions, but that’s probably best in another thread!
But you don't have to wear one, so don't, and other people wearing one is of no consequence to you.
 

VauxhallandI

Established Member
Joined
26 Dec 2012
Messages
2,096
Location
Cheshunt
But you don't have to wear one, so don't, and other people wearing one is of no consequence to you.
This is getting tedious to be honest.

I’m still not sure if you can’t see beyond what’s in front of your nose or you are being purposely annoying.

The more this mask cultism continues the more companies try and pander to what they think people want and what they think will make then look oh so varying and sharing when in fact they are just trying to follow the money.

Take flying for example; this is curtailing many peoples lives and hobbies.

As soon as we get rid of the people wearing them because they want to fit in or get a medal then the quicker companies like BA will jump ship back to normality.
 

Green tractor

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2019
Messages
215
Location
Lancaster
You can fly, you just have to wear a mask. If you dont want to wear a mask (as opposed to being legitimately exempt) then not flying is your own personal choice.

You say they are trying to do the popular thing, so that implies that most people want face masks.

Back on topic you dont have to wear a mask on a train in England, so dont, and mind your own business about others wearing one.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,132
Location
Yorkshire
It's a minority of people who want to wear them; the virtue signalling by companies such as LNER is partly because the company erroneously believes it's a popular move and also partly because they have some mask activists in high up positions.

I'm not going to stop criticising LNER's stance until they have a more sensible policy; as others have said, a sensible policy would be to say something like "Face masks are optional; please respect the choice of other passengers" or similar.

As for people minding their own business, a message along these lines would achieve this. The current messaging does not, and just stokes the culture war that's currently ongoing.
 

farleigh

Member
Joined
1 Nov 2016
Messages
997
I think we have arrived at a funny situation.

It seems that many people are wearing masks in the belief that they are protecting people who do not want protecting and resent the people that are trying to 'protect' them.

Quite funny I suppose
 

londonteacher

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2018
Messages
452
  • Government expects and recommends that people wear face coverings in crowded areas such as public transport;
Gov.uk link

The thing is according to the Government website, quoted above, LNER are doing exactly what the guidance says. Which is expected as they are ran by the government.

We may not like it and the general consensus from this thread is that it is a nuisance (as previously stated I'm not bothered either way) but they are following the guidance.
 

yorkie

Forum Staff
Staff Member
Administrator
Joined
6 Jun 2005
Messages
55,132
Location
Yorkshire
I think we have arrived at a funny situation.

It seems that many people are wearing masks in the belief that they are protecting people who do not want protecting and resent the people that are trying to 'protect' them.

Quite funny I suppose
Indeed it makes no sense.

Standard flimsy masks are known not to protect the wearer but are ostensibly to protect others; this is the excuse given by authoritarians who wish to mandate them (and/or pressure people into wearing them).

The reality is that there are only two types of people who need protecting:
1) people who are refusing the vaccine, in which case this charade is frankly a waste of time (I respect people's choice to refuse the vaccine BUT the idea that others should wear masks to protect them is absolutely laughable and absurd)
2) people who are immunocompromised; such people are - contrary to what vaccine efficacy deniers preach - well protected by vaccines but not as well protected as others, but they can choose to wear highly effective N99/FFP3 masks if they wish to do so. If they do, then it makes not a jot of difference what others are or aren't wearing.

Gov.uk link

The thing is according to the Government website, quoted above, LNER are doing exactly what the guidance says. Which is expected as they are ran by the government.
My argument is against the awful Government messaging but also the tone in which LNER are delivering it. No other company is quite as forceful as LNER that I am aware of.
We may not like it and the general consensus from this thread is that it is a nuisance (as previously stated I'm not bothered either way) but they are following the guidance.
The guidance doesn't say that people should be told "WEAR A FACE COVERING".

The whole thing is such nonsense I am going to continue to push back against it until the messaging is revised and I know of several others who feel that way too.

LNER need to get a grip.
 
Last edited:

londonteacher

Member
Joined
10 Aug 2018
Messages
452
No other company is quite as forceful as LNER that I am aware of.
LNER is the government though so I would imagine that's why the messaging is in the way it is. Think of some of the governments adverts throughout the pandemic.
should be told "WEAR A FACE COVERING".

I agree that it's not explicit. But, 'should' and 'expect' are similar in intent if not the same.

I don't blame you and others fighting against it though!
 

Green tractor

Member
Joined
30 Aug 2019
Messages
215
Location
Lancaster
It seems to me the best solution would be if somebody who has acually seen the poster was to write to LNER about it and share the response they give. It would be more effective than posting on here. Has anybody done that?
 

VauxhallandI

Established Member
Joined
26 Dec 2012
Messages
2,096
Location
Cheshunt
You can fly, you just have to wear a mask. If you dont want to wear a mask (as opposed to being legitimately exempt) then not flying is your own personal choice.

You say they are trying to do the popular thing, so that implies that most people want face masks.

Back on topic you dont have to wear a mask on a train in England, so dont, and mind your own business about others wearing one.
If every answer given completely resets all previous points and observations made in the thread then there is little point interacting

The whole airport and flight experience is rotten and certainly doesn’t represent part of a holiday. Add to that the “because of covid” level of service you really don’t get a First Class experience
 

Watershed

Established Member
Joined
26 Sep 2020
Messages
2,674
Location
UK
You can fly, you just have to wear a mask. If you dont want to wear a mask (as opposed to being legitimately exempt) then not flying is your own personal choice.
It's not exactly a choice if you are travelling abroad, or to Northern Ireland, or one of the Scottish islands for example. Most ferries (where they even provide a viable alternative) require masks, exactly the same as the airlines.

LNER have deliberately worded their messaging, particularly with the phrase "we understand if you can't wear a face covering" - implying that if you can wear a face covering but don't, you're a bad person.

There's really no need for this muddling of the industry message. But of course LNER are always a special case, just like how they "needed" compulsory reservations when no other TOC had them.
 

Top