Locomotive Services 1Z61 at a stand at Poole

[liamf656]

1Z61 is currently sitting in Poole sidings due to the fact that the train is formed with Mk3s featuring Long SwingLink Bogies.

For those less in the know Long SwingLink bogies are not permitted on third rail due to the possibility that it could come into contact with the third rail.

The service was supposed to go to Weymouth, so I'm unsure now what will happen next

The first few posts in the below link explain the differences between Long and Short SwingLink bogies. For some reason the forum won't let me quote any posts

HST's on 3rd rail lines.

I was on the 0748 Plymouth to London Waterloo FGW HST on Good Friday 2015. We were held outside Andover for a fair while with the TM announcing there was a 'train fault'. That 'train fault' was allowing a HST set into traffic to Waterloo with one of the Mk3 carriages in the consist on Long...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[JonathanH]

1Z61 is currently sitting in Poole sidings due to the fact that the train is formed with Mk3s featuring Long SwingLink Bogies.

The Mk3 set ran numerous times over third rail lines during its brief spell on Steam Dreams workings.

 

[Defiance149]

1Z61 is currently sitting in Poole sidings due to the fact that the train is formed with Mk3s featuring Long SwingLink Bogies.

There's only one Mk.3 in the formation, presumably it will be removed for the return if not sorted.

 

[Trainguy34]

Looks to be on the move again, only 167 mins late... Looks like it's only going to have around an hour in Weymouth.

 

[brownandrew15]

There's only one Mk.3 in the formation

It’s a ScotRail livery one at the rear next to 47593 - didn’t see which one though. The rest of the coaches appear to be the same as the last time I saw it when it was going to Windsor at the beginning of May, including the blue and grey mark 1 buffet

 

[MiNi]

712

 

[D6130]

The Mk3 set ran numerous times over third rail lines during its brief spell on Steam Dreams workings.

....and HSTs consisting of Mark 3 vehicles ran into and out of Waterloo numerous times in the mid-1990s on Eurostar Connect services....or does the restriction only apply to the loco-hauled Mark 3a stock?

 

[JonathanH]

HSTs consisting of Mark 3 vehicles ran into and out of Waterloo numerous times in the mid-1990s on Eurostar Connect services

Those would have had bogies with short swing links.

The arrangement at one time was to try and concentrate the coaches with long swing links on the Mk3 routes that didn't cover the third rail network.

Mk3s all carry a LSL or SSL marker on the coach end to demote the type of bogie fitted.

 

[D6130]

Those would have had bogies with short swing links.

The arrangement at one time was to try and concentrate the coaches with long swing links on the Mk3 routes that didn't cover the third rail network.

Mk3s all carry a LSL or SSL marker on the coach end to demote the type of bogie fitted.

Thanks for clarifying!

 

[Brush 4]

It must have been hard explaining that to the non enthusiast members of the public on board.....

 

[HamworthyGoods]

It must have been hard explaining that to the non enthusiast members of the public on board.....

LSL just have to be honest and say they’ve made a mistake. It is a fairly basic requirement to make sure the train you wish to run is cleared for the route you wish to run it on!

 

[Iskra]

What was the remedy here? Was it removing the offending coach from the rake, or locking it out of passenger use? If so, how are the passengers from that coach being accommodated for the journey home?

 

[hexagon789]

What was the remedy here? Was it removing the offending coach from the rake, or locking it out of passenger use? If so, how are the passengers from that coach being accommodated for the journey home?

11082 was shunted out at Poole.

 

[Iskra]

11082 was shunted out at Poole.

Thanks, and what about the passengers? I thought there were rules about no standing passengers on railtours? (Assuming it was a sell-out)

 

[hexagon789]

Thanks, and what about the passengers? I thought there were rules about no standing passengers on railtours? (Assuming it was a sell-out)

No idea on either point, sorry - neither what happened to those booked on the removed carriage nor whether the tour was a sell-out or had up to 48 seats free among the other carriages.

 

[Sun Chariot]

Thanks for clarifying!

I also thought BT10 bogies were "one-size-fits-all". That's the joy of this forum.
It explains why the XC 'HST farewell' was able to send a full rake to Swanage last September.

 

[fgwrich]

11082 was shunted out at Poole.

Indeed, now left abandoned awaiting a decision on how it will be recovered. More than likely by road unless LSL can obtain a dispensation to run it carefully off of the Southern, and with the airbags as high as possible.

Still, it goes to show that scrapping a lot of those Mk3 bogies (particularly SSL) wasn’t such a good idea after all.

 

[theblackwatch]

The Mk3 set ran numerous times over third rail lines during its brief spell on Steam Dreams workings.

11082 (the offending coach) is a more recent addition to the LSL fleet, being acquired from Barry for the ScotRail set. I'm sure the Platform 5 combined used to show which coaches had which bogies, but the 2024 version doesn't.

 

[GC class B1]

Indeed, now left abandoned awaiting a decision on how it will be recovered. More than likely by road unless LSL can obtain a dispensation to run it carefully off of the Southern, and with the airbags as high as possible.

Still, it goes to show that scrapping a lot of those Mk3 bogies (particularly SSL) wasn’t such a good idea after all.

Raising the air suspension doesn’t increase the clearance between the bolster and the third rail. This clearance is only dependent on the wheel diameter. InterCity also carried out a modification to Mk3 vehicles to allow the minimum in service wheel diameter to be reduced which further reduced the clearance between the bolster and the third rail with wheels at scrapping size.

 

[43096]

Those would have had bogies with short swing links.

The arrangement at one time was to try and concentrate the coaches with long swing links on the Mk3 routes that didn't cover the third rail network.

Mk3s all carry a LSL or SSL marker on the coach end to demote the type of bogie fitted.

You cannot rely on the vehicle end lettering as it didn’t always get checked/changed when bogies were swapped. The only sure way is a visual check of each vehicle’s bogies.

 

[Ashley Hill]

It is a fairly basic requirement to make sure the train you wish to run is cleared for the route you wish to run it on!

Then someone at FGW must have been embarrassed when a HST was terminated at Andover during the Waterloo diversions in 2015!

 

[fgwrich]

Then someone at FGW must have been embarrassed when a HST was terminated at Andover during the Waterloo diversions in 2015!

At least that was realised before it hit the Southern metals though!

 

[D6130]

At least that was realised before it hit the Southern metals though!

But what was the problem in that case? It's already been stated upthread that the restriction only applies to loco-hauled Mark 3a stock.

 

[Ashley Hill]

But what was the problem in that case? It's already been stated upthread that the restriction only applies to loco-hauled Mark 3a stock.

HST coaches also have long and short swing link bogies. The guard happened to read the POIS list and raised the problem. The service was terminated at Andover where it was turned round.

 

[43096]

But what was the problem in that case? It's already been stated upthread that the restriction only applies to loco-hauled Mark 3a stock.

It doesn’t just apply to loco-hauled Mark 3A vehicles. It applies to ANY Mark 3 (loco hauled or HST) as the bogies are common to both types.

 

[D6130]

HST coaches also have long and short swing link bogies. The guard happened to read the POIS list and raised the probloem. The service was terminated at Andover where it was turned round.

Thanks for the clarification. That must have been rather unfortunate for anyone with a Eurostar connection from Waterloo.

It doesn’t just apply to loco-hauled Mark 3A vehicles. It applies to ANY Mark 3 (loco hauled or HST) as the bogies are common to both types.

I'm rather confused here. Cross-Country HSTs used to run to Bournemouth did they not? Plus the Cross-Country HST Farewell railtour from Leeds to Swanage. Were certain units specially formed of short swing link bogied stock specifically for these services?

 

[Iskra]

Thanks for the clarification. That must have been rather unfortunate for anyone with a Eurostar connection from Waterloo.

I'm rather confused here. Cross-Country HSTs used to run to Bournemouth did they not? Plus the Cross-Country HST Farewell railtour from Leeds to Swanage. Were certain units specially formed of short swing link bogied stock specifically for these services?

Yes, that’s exactly it

 

[hexagon789]

Were certain units specially formed of short swing link bogied stock specifically for these services?

Yes, sets of all SSL bogied stock were made up for exactly that reason.

 

[ajs]

Can anyone say why the train made it all the way down to Poole (apart from fact problem was not noticed ) before the problem was noticed and what sort of person would have noticed the problem - change of crew/guard?

 

[D6130]

Can anyone say why the train made it all the way down to Poole (apart from fact problem was not noticed ) before the problem was noticed and what sort of person would have noticed the problem - change of crew/guard?

Perhaps the electrical control room noticed that there were several temporary shorts on the third rail after the train passed Basingstoke?