London - Barcelona advice

[Spaceflower]

The old raileurope site is quoting me nearly £300 for two people one way for this journey but that's splitting at Paris, The through ticket is over £300. That's over £600 return.

Any advice on obtaining cheaper tickets please?

 

[Flandrian]

If the website will give you a reasonable price for a Perpignan return (from London), then splitting there should save about 30% on the quote you have.

 

[30907]

When are you looking for? Doing the standard thing of looking 3 months ahead, Paris-Barcelona starts at EUR59.

Perpignan-Barcelona starts at EUR29, but Paris-Perpignan is EUR30 (but EUR50 on the Barcelona services), and splitting at Montpellier (better service from Paris) would cost at least EUR69.
Obviously if there are no cheap fares left, those splits are worth checking.

As always, try http://www.seat61.com/Spain.htm#How_much_does_it_cost or http://www.seat61.com/Paris-to-Barcelona-by-TGV-train.htm#.Ur2wS_uP-Ngfor advice on where to book.

 

[Oscar]

You could also consider overnight trains (Intercités de nuit) from Paris to Latour-de-Carol or Portbou (from 35 € in a couchette or 20 € in a seat) or daytime trains to Perpignan/Toulouse and a TER to Latour-de-Carol or Portbou and then a connecting Catalan regional service to Barcelona (c. 11-12 €). Before the TGV service ran to Barcelona, splitting at Perpignan often saved money outside of busy times - fares to Perpignan for 25 € plus a 9 € Perpignan - Figueres ticket were often available on the same train. That doesn't seem to be the case anymore.

 

[30907]

You could also consider overnight trains (Intercités de nuit) from Paris to Latour-de-Carol or Portbou (from 35 € in a couchette or 20 € in a seat) or daytime trains to Perpignan/Toulouse and a TER to Latour-de-Carol or Portbou and then a connecting Catalan regional service to Barcelona (c. 11-12 €).

Seat61 has just test-ridden the LaTour de Carol route, which has spectacular scenery - the coastal route either side of Portbou is nice, too.
http://www.seat61.com/Spain.htm#London_to_Barcelona_by_overnight_couchette_train
Word of warning - Portbou and LaTour to Barcelona are technically suburban trains, and the one we used a couple of years ago from Portbou had no loo!

 

[Oscar]

The Portbou and Latour trains are regional, not suburban services, and correspondingly are part of a different ticketing system and have guards who sell tickets on board. Media Distancia units are often used on these regional services (I have seen them working services on the Portbou and Tarragona lines). The marketing for these services is in any case very confused, as both services operate under the brand of Rodalies (commuter services) when in fact only the suburban services are Rodalies trains.
English Wikipedia entry on Rodalies de Catalunya

 

[fgp]

The Portbou and Latour trains are regional, not suburban services, and correspondingly are part of a different ticketing system and have guards who sell tickets on board. Media Distancia units are often used on these regional services (I have seen them working services on the Portbou and Tarragona lines). The marketing for these services is in any case very confused, as both services operate under the brand of Rodalies (commuter services) when in fact only the suburban services are Rodalies trains.
English Wikipedia entry on Rodalies de Catalunya

Regional services inside Cataluña are branded Rodalias, not just suburban.
Latour de Carol- Barcelona, although it is a regional service is serviced by suburban trains (447). All suburban and regional trains have loos.

 

[Spaceflower]

I'm flying. It was a nice idea but too costly and disjointed.

 

[shinkansen1966]

There are now two direct TGVs per day from Paris Gare de Lyon to Barcelona Sants. Journey time 6.5 hours. Fares start at €59 one way.

http://www.seat61.com/Spain.htm#London-Barcelona_by_daytime_train

The overnight Tren Hotel service between Paris and Barcelona has now been discontinued.

 

[Squaddie]

I'm flying. It was a nice idea but too costly and disjointed.

Unfortunately, that's usually what I end up doing too. Different booking horizons for Eurostar and TGV, and the fact that you cannot always choose your seats, make booking train tickets just too much hard work. It's time there were a simple, unified booking process for trains across the entire continent.

 

[JoeGJ1984]

Now that through running from Paris to Barcelona is operational, is there any prospect of direct London to Barcelona trains? May prove popular with holidaymakers who, for some reason, don't want to fly (maybe a fear of flying, maybe don't like all the hassles/restrictions of airport security, liquid restrictions, etc., or those who enjoy travelling by train or those like the OP of this thread who was put off by it being too disjointed).

Spanish railway operator RENFE has also shown an interest in running AVE services from Spain to London via Paris, Lyon, Barcelona, Madrid and Lisbon (using the Madrid–Barcelona high-speed rail line) once its AVE network is connected to France via the Barcelona to Figueras and Perpignan to Figueras lines in 2012.

From Wikipedia

Well the network is now connected Anyone know of these plans?

Or at the very least, sell through tickets from London to Barcelona which will guarantee protection in case of missed connections (in much the same way as the DB London Spezials). Maybe start out with through tickets as a 'testbed' then consider direct trains if enough people buy the through tickets from London to Barcelona.

 

[30907]

Now that through running from Paris to Barcelona is operational, is there any prospect of direct London to Barcelona trains?

Or at the very least, sell through tickets from London to Barcelona which will guarantee protection in case of missed connections (in much the same way as the DB London Spezials). Maybe start out with through tickets as a 'testbed' then consider direct trains if enough people buy the through tickets from London to Barcelona.

A through journey is already covered for missed connections under CIV rules, even though it needs 2 tickets, and www.loco2.com will book it as one transaction.

As for through trains, I think that was highly optimistic on RENFE's part. Would be interesting to see if a (Brussels-)Lille-Barcelona gets tried.

 

[Bald Rick]

Now that through running from Paris to Barcelona is operational, is there any prospect of direct London to Barcelona trains? May prove popular with holidaymakers who, for some reason, don't want to fly (maybe a fear of flying, maybe don't like all the hassles/restrictions of airport security, liquid restrictions, etc., or those who enjoy travelling by train or those like the OP of this thread who was put off by it being too disjointed).


From Wikipedia

Well the network is now connected Anyone know of these plans?

Or at the very least, sell through tickets from London to Barcelona which will guarantee protection in case of missed connections (in much the same way as the DB London Spezials). Maybe start out with through tickets as a 'testbed' then consider direct trains if enough people buy the through tickets from London to Barcelona.

There's no plans for a through service. It would be the best part of 8 hours, and as the OP found out, very expensive compared to the alternative.

Depending what time of year it is, there are between 2,500 and 4,500 seats per day flying from London to Barcelona. Or put another way 4 to 6 eurostars' worth. To justify just one daily (or even weekly) return eurostar trip, around one fifth of those air passengers are going to have to willingly at least double their fare for a door to door journey that will be in the order of twice as long.

That's before we get to the logistics of running it: rolling stock, crew, border control etc.

Having said all that, it wouldn't surprise me if Eurostar did a press run there to show it could be done.

 

[alastair]

Unfortunately, that's usually what I end up doing too. Different booking horizons for Eurostar and TGV, and the fact that you cannot always choose your seats, make booking train tickets just too much hard work. It's time there were a simple, unified booking process for trains across the entire continent.

I believe that is what this website claims to be:

www.loco2.com

 

[Squaddie]

I believe that is what this website claims to be:

www.loco2.com

It may claim to be that, but the reality is very different.

I just typed in a random journey - Inverness to Verona, on a date in early March, for one passenger. This is what I got back:

Sorry, we haven't found any trains!

There are several possible reasons:

• If your journey involves lots of changes. Try adding a stopover and then search again.
• Tickets might have sold out. Try changing your dates.
• There might be a problem on this route. If you've tried everything else and still can't find trains, please contact us.

I changed the origin station to Cardiff, and this time I did get a result.

It suggests a train from Cardiff to London at 05:55, costing £52.20 (Advance), followed by a 6-hour wait in London for the 14:31 Eurostar to Paris.

First Great Western is currently quoting just £42.50 for that service. Furthermore, it offers an Advance fare of £16.50 for the 10:55 departure, which would get me to Paddington at 13:00 - with plenty of time to get my Eurostar train.

So, already, Loco2 has cost me £26 more than buying the tickets directly from the operator, and has subjected me to a very early start and a six-hour wait in London. I'd probably find that their quote of £143 for the journey from Paris to Verona is also significantly more expensive than it would be if purchased directly from the operators.

It looks like they have a long way to go.

 

[Oscar]

I'd probably find that their quote of £143 for the journey from Paris to Verona is also significantly more expensive than it would be if purchased directly from the operators.

It looks like they have a long way to go.

Loco2 can't sell the cheapest Thello tickets, so yes, their quote would probably be more expensive for an overnight journey. They can sell all TGV tickets to Milano P. Garibaldi but only full-fare Frecciabianca tickets for the Italian domestic leg, so would also probably be more expensive for a daytime journey. Unfortunately European train operators often seem very reluctant to give third party websites access to their full fare range.

 

[Squaddie]

Loco2 can't sell the cheapest Thello tickets, so yes, their quote would probably be more expensive for an overnight journey. They can sell all TGV tickets to Milano P. Garibaldi but only full-fare Frecciabianca tickets for the Italian domestic leg, so would also probably be more expensive for a daytime journey. Unfortunately European train operators often seem very reluctant to give third party websites access to their full fare range.

And that, really, is my point. If the cheapest tickets are only available from the domestic operators' own websites (and that's what I found at Christmas, when I had to use three different websites to buy tickets for an international journey) then sites such as loco2 are almost useless.

 

[Greenback]

It is difficult to book a rail trip across Europe using different countries websites but it can be done with a lot patience and time. Different individuals will obviously place different values on the time spent researching and booking such a journey, but if you enjoy the research and planning, that is a big help!

 

[Squaddie]

It is difficult to book a rail trip across Europe using different countries websites but it can be done with a lot patience and time. Different individuals will obviously place different values on the time spent researching and booking such a journey, but if you enjoy the research and planning, that is a big help!

It was certainly a time-consuming and frustrating process but (in my view) the only way to ensure that my journey would be enjoyable. It is not only a matter of cost but also that the national operators' websites allow you to select your own seats graphically whereas the consolidators generally don't. If I'm travelling intercity within Europe I insist upon facing solo seats for my partner and me, as travelling side-by-side with someone is awkward and unsociable.

I found that the user-friendliness of the various websites pretty much correlates to the stereotypical view of the countries in general.

Trenitalia's website was a complete nightmare, and it took me two days to finally book the seats I wanted on the trains I wanted. It was not made any easier by having my transactions rejected by Verified by Visa, the first time this has happened to me in over two years, and having to phone them to have the transactions authorised. I had similar frustrations when using RENFE's website last year.

On the other hand, the Austrian and German railways' websites were a dream, and I was able to get very cheap advance tickets with print-at-home facility with very little effort.

However, given the time and effort required to book an international journey, especially to/from the UK, I tend to fly more often that I would ideally like to.

 

[Greenback]

It was certainly a time-consuming and frustrating process but (in my view) the only way to ensure that my journey would be enjoyable. It is not only a matter of cost but also that the national operators' websites allow you to select your own seats graphically whereas the consolidators generally don't. If I'm travelling intercity within Europe I insist upon facing solo seats for my partner and me, as travelling side-by-side with someone is awkward and unsociable.

Yes, I think the resellers are pretty useless if you have particular requirements or requests. My othe rhalf is quite happy to sit alongside me as she said she doesn't have to look at me then , so at least that's one problem I don't have to think about!

I found that the user-friendliness of the various websites pretty much correlates to the stereotypical view of the countries in general.

Trenitalia's website was a complete nightmare, and it took me two days to finally book the seats I wanted on the trains I wanted. It was not made any easier by having my transactions rejected by Verified by Visa, the first time this has happened to me in over two years, and having to phone them to have the transactions authorised. I had similar frustrations when using RENFE's website last year.

On the other hand, the Austrian and German railways' websites were a dream, and I was able to get very cheap advance tickets with print-at-home facility with very little effort.

I found Trenitalia hideous the first couple of times I used it, but then I got used to it I suppose. To be honest, none of them appear easy, but I found the German site the easiest, although it got a bit complicated when I was adding stopovers and trying to use a particular route. To my great regret, I have never been to Austria, not yet anyway, but is certainly on the list!

However, given the time and effort required to book an international journey, especially to/from the UK, I tend to fly more often that I would ideally like to.

I know what you mean. You do need perseverance, and I wonder how many people fly when they would rather take the train just because of the sheer logistics of booking tickets?

(I realise I may be in the minority of actually enjoying the planning process, but even I get frustrated with the various websites at times!)