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London Buses Discussion

Busaholic

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Basically 4 Routemasters:
RM5
RMC1453 (first Green Line RMC and in green Line original livery)
RMC1464 open top in red livery
RM2217
Many know that RM 2217 performed the final regular RM service on 7/12/05 on the 159 from Marble Arch, not so many know that RM5 operated the last one to arrive in service at Marble Arch, following which it disappeared down Park Lane OOS. It wasn't driven by a regular Brixton driver either. I'd like to see RM2217 go to the London Transport Museum, failing which the London Bus Museum at Brooklands.
 
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AY1975

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It has been announced that Arriva London are closing down their heritage fleet operation at the end of the year.
Basically 4 Routemasters:
RM5
RMC1453 (first Green Line RMC and in green Line original livery)
RMC1464 open top in red livery
RM2217
What are those RMs currently used for, or what were they latterly used for? Did Arriva run the recently withdrawn heritage routes in Central London? Or are they just spot hire buses?
 

Busaholic

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What are those RMs currently used for, or what were they latterly used for? Did Arriva run the recently withdrawn heritage routes in Central London? Or are they just spot hire buses?
No, Arriva played no part in the operation of the heritage routes. I wouldn't think you could hire most of those RMs, but someone might prove me wrong.
 

AY1975

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No, Arriva played no part in the operation of the heritage routes. I wouldn't think you could hire most of those RMs, but someone might prove me wrong.
In that case, what are they used for? Are they just kept for occasional special events?
 

busesrusuk

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In that case, what are they used for? Are they just kept for occasional special events?
They are/were primarily available for private hires - a very crowded market on London for anyone wanting a red Routemaster. When not required for a hire, they were used for special events.
 

londonbridge

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Does anyone know why the 154 towards Croydon is still diverting along Stafford Road and missing out Sandy Lane South and Roundshaw? TFL website originally said it was roadworks which were due to end November 11, but is now saying December 1st, whilst posters on the affected stops say it’s due to safety concerns and the diversion will continue until December 14th. There are no workmen on the Stafford Road/Sandy Lane South junction and nothing I can see physically preventing the bus from turning right….unless the road surface itself is damaged/unsafe in sone way?

The 455 was also originally diverting along Stafford Road but is now able to turn right into Redford Avenue and right into Link Lane then left back onto its normal route so the problem must be at the junction.
 
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BBC News - London bus cuts: Sadiq Khan pulls handbrake on planned changes

Sadiq Khan has pulled back on controversial plans to axe numerous bus routes across London after a massive backlash by passengers.

Transport for London (TfL) has announced it will only get rid of three bus routes following a consultation which saw more than 20,000 replies.

The strength of feeling across London had been made clear, the mayor said.

But various routes will be altered to "ensure a continued reliable bus network in central and inner London".

In June, TfL warned central London buses could be reduced by a fifth as it tried to balance the books following the Covid-19 pandemic.


As a result of the consultation, 17 routes which had been proposed to be cut will be saved and kept as they currently operate. Another 40 services will also no longer be changed as initially planned.

Only three routes will be removed entirely - the 521 between Waterloo and London Bridge, the 507 between Victoria and Waterloo, and the 332 between Brent Park and Paddington - while alterations will be made to another 11 services.

Of the plans consulted on:

Routes 4, 12, 14, 24, 31, 45, 72, 74, 78, 242, 349, C3, D7, N31, N72, N74 and N242 will be saved and kept as they are
Planned tweaks to routes 15, 19, 27, 43, 47, 49, 53, 56, 88, 98, 100, 113, 135, 148, 171, 189, 205, 214, 236, 254, 259, 277, 279, 283, 328, 343, 388, 414, 430, 476, D3, D8, N15, N19, N27, N98, N133, N205, N414 and N430 will no longer happen
Proposed changes to routes 3, 6, 11, 23, 26, 59, 77, 133, 211, C10 and N26 will still go ahead
TfL said the consultation had raised issues with the plans and as a result the mayor of London had been able to find extra funding to ensure the cuts did not happen on such a large scale.

This is good news. Not all of the planned cuts are happening but three routes are going: 521,507 and 332.
 
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duncanp

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BBC News - London bus cuts: Sadiq Khan pulls handbrake on planned changes

This is good news not all of the planned cuts are happening but three routes are going 521,507 and 332

This doesn't make sense.

The article says that only three routes (507, 521 and 332) will be withdrawn completely, but that proposed changes to route 11 will go ahead as planned.

The proposed change to route 11 is to, er, withdraw it completely.
 

306024

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This doesn't make sense.

The article says that only three routes (507, 521 and 332) will be withdrawn completely, but that proposed changes to route 11 will go ahead as planned.

The proposed change to route 11 is to, er, withdraw it completely.
Tonight's Standard says route 11 will now be shortened. Helpfully it doesn't say which end.
 

Dstock7080

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This doesn't make sense.

The article says that only three routes (507, 521 and 332) will be withdrawn completely, but that proposed changes to route 11 will go ahead as planned.

The proposed change to route 11 is to, er, withdraw it completely.
The 11 in original form will go, route 507 extended from Victoria (after crossing Westminster bridge) to Fulham Broadway and renumbered 11
 
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Deerfold

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This doesn't make sense.

The article says that only three routes (507, 521 and 332) will be withdrawn completely, but that proposed changes to route 11 will go ahead as planned.

The proposed change to route 11 is to, er, withdraw it completely.

The 521 is quite a surprise. There can't be many routes that are every 10 minutes, every 5 at peak and every 12 in the evening that are withdrawn completely in one go.
 

Snow1964

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This doesn't make sense.

The article says that only three routes (507, 521 and 332) will be withdrawn completely, but that proposed changes to route 11 will go ahead as planned.

The proposed change to route 11 is to, er, withdraw it completely.

There is a full table of what is happening, but anything not in below is not changing
Following careful consideration of the feedback received it has been decided that the following bus routes will change. These changes include some modifications, and four routes that will no longer run:
1. NorthLondonarea–EdgwareRoad–busroutes6(24hr),16,N16,and23 (24hr) and new route N32
2. SouthLondonarea–HorseferryRoad–busroutes3,77,507andC10
3. SouthLondonarea–Waterloo–busroutes59,133,and521
4. EastLondonarea–FleetStreet–busroutes11,N11,26,N26,211and507
The four bus routes that will no longer run are: 332*, 507, 521 and the N16. It was initially proposed that 22 bus routes would no longer run.
*Route 332 is not shown above. It will be renumbered as route 16. Route 16 will follow the route of the 332 between Paddington and Brent Park, via Cricklewood. At night, the N16 will be directly replaced by new route N32.
Changes to all other bus routes in scope of consultation and not listed above will not be going ahead at this time. However, this will be kept under review as part of our ongoing monitoring and continual review of the London bus network.

It says in the table that route 11 will be restructured to run Waterloo to Fulham (it currently operates as Bishopsgate via Aldwych to Fulham) to appears to be losing City of London part

Link to decision summary document with details
 
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Surreyman

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Given the 507 & 521 are operated from the Waterloo depot with all Electric 12m BYD/ADL single decks and the depot is 'all electric' I would imagine (given the charging infrastructure installed at Waterloo) that they would look to base some Electric Double Decks there, it will be more difficult to find homes for the 12m single-decks - maybe they could move to another Go-Ahead subsidiary?
 
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This doesn't make sense.

The article says that only three routes (507, 521 and 332) will be withdrawn completely, but that proposed changes to route 11 will go ahead as planned.

The proposed change to route 11 is to, er, withdraw it completely.
I'm surprised it was just three routes but on the other hand there was alot of pressure from MPs and Campaigners.
 

Bishopstone

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Given the 507 & 521 are operated from the Waterloo depot with all Electric 12m BYD/ADL single decks and the depot is 'all electric' I would imagine (given the charging infrastructure installed at Waterloo) that they would look to base some Electric Double Decks there, it will be more difficult to find homes for the 12m single-decks - maybe they could move to another Go-Ahead subsidiary?

This is prime Zone 1, so I imagine the land will be sold for redevelopment as a tower of executive apartments.
 

Surreyman

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This is prime Zone 1, so I imagine the land will be sold for redevelopment as a tower of executive apartments.
You're probably right but they must have spent a tidy sum in recent years on charging equipment, I guess it can be moved (at great expense) some where else.
 

MotCO

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Given the 507 & 521 are operated from the Waterloo depot with all Electric 12m BYD/ADL single decks and the depot is 'all electric' I would imagine (given the charging infrastructure installed at Waterloo) that they would look to base some Electric Double Decks there, it will be more difficult to find homes for the 12m single-decks - maybe they could move to another Go-Ahead subsidiary?
They could have moved to Metrobus for the 358, but the route is probably too long for them. Maybe the 227 or 108?
 

Edsmith

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Given the 507 & 521 are operated from the Waterloo depot with all Electric 12m BYD/ADL single decks and the depot is 'all electric' I would imagine (given the charging infrastructure installed at Waterloo) that they would look to base some Electric Double Decks there, it will be more difficult to find homes for the 12m single-decks - maybe they could move to another Go-Ahead subsidiary?
It's been suggested that some will be used on the 108.
 

miklcct

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There is a full table of what is happening, but anything not in below is not changing


It says in the table that route 11 will be restructured to run Waterloo to Fulham (it currently operates as Bishopsgate via Aldwych to Fulham) to appears to be losing City of London part

Link to decision summary document with details
The link doesn't work. Can you explain more about the change of the 16, 332 and N16 changes please? I have to use the route N16 to get to the coach station for early morning coaches, and the 332 to Paddington for trains there as well.

Is the 16 being extended to Brent Park to replace the 332 which is going to be cancelled? Where will be the N32, which replaces the N16, terminate in the London end?
 

Snow1964

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The link doesn't work. Can you explain more about the change of the 16, 332 and N16 changes please? I have to use the route N16 to get to the coach station for early morning coaches, and the 332 to Paddington for trains there as well.

Is the 16 being extended to Brent Park to replace the 332 which is going to be cancelled? Where will be the N32, which replaces the N16, terminate in the London end?
TfL seem to have put a time out on the direct link, it is the one in blue marked decision summary and next steps document on link below

N32 will run from Edgware to Victoria

Update 23 November 2022
We have published our consultation report and updated Equalities Impact Assessments following this consultation.
We have also produced a decision summary and next steps document that outlines how, route-by-route, we intend to proceed with some of the Central London Bus Review proposals.

 

Edsmith

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The link doesn't work. Can you explain more about the change of the 16, 332 and N16 changes please? I have to use the route N16 to get to the coach station for early morning coaches, and the 332 to Paddington for trains there as well.

Is the 16 being extended to Brent Park to replace the 332 which is going to be cancelled? Where will be the N32, which replaces the N16, terminate in the London end?
The N16 is effectively just being renumbered N32, it remains Edgware to Victoria.
 

GusB

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The actual document, Decision Summary and Next Steps has been attached below, for those who wish to read the whole thing.
 

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  • 1d3e2bafe8ff45f098ca19d41c3031ad_central-london-bus-review-2022-decision-summary-and-next-steps.pdf
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duncanp

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The actual document, Decision Summary and Next Steps has been attached below, for those who wish to read the whole thing.

So another useful link between two mainline railway stations (Waterloo & Liverpool Street) is lost with the diversion of the 26 to terminate at Victoria.
 

Busaholic

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This is prime Zone 1, so I imagine the land will be sold for redevelopment as a tower of executive apartments.
Waterloo Bus Garage won the Energy Globe international award exactly three years ago from around 2,000 entries for innovations in sustainability. It was the first all-electric bus garage in the U.K., but a lot of the people most involved at Go-Ahead and TfL have moved on or retired. Given Lambeth Council is the local authority and bearing in mind past campaigns (Coin St. etc) which were both effective and publicity-garnering, I doubt very much that planning permission for what you suggest would get past Mayor Khan: Mayor Johnson he is not!
 

Edsmith

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Waterloo Bus Garage won the Energy Globe international award exactly three years ago from around 2,000 entries for innovations in sustainability. It was the first all-electric bus garage in the U.K., but a lot of the people most involved at Go-Ahead and TfL have moved on or retired. Given Lambeth Council is the local authority and bearing in mind past campaigns (Coin St. etc) which were both effective and publicity-garnering, I doubt very much that planning permission for what you suggest would get past Mayor Khan: Mayor Johnson he is not!
It's Go Ahead London's decision, if they don't need the premises anymore the electric charging equipment will be removed and it will be sold for redevelopment.
 

Mikey C

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TfL may have a say in its future IF they feel that it's too important strategically to be lost - it's the sort of garage location which is irreplaceable
 

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