London Buses Discussion

[Robertj21a]

But the 159 is not going to Oxford Street, as it will be terminating at stop P in Regent Street.

Changing to continue along Oxford Street will involve a walk of about 200 metres and crossing at least one road, assuming you know where you are going. This may not be an issue for most people, but will be for those who have mobility issues, who rely on the buses more than most people.

Stop BX outside Selfridges will not be of much use to someone who is disembarking from a 113 that is terminating at stop P on the South side of Oxford Street.

And how much longer will it be before the 7, 94, 98, 139 and 390 are curtailed or diverted away from Oxford Street, given that pedestrianisation is a long term aim of both Westminster City Council and TfL?

If it is a long term plan then these buses will be diverted away at some point anyway. It's a bit surprising that so many buses have been allowed along Oxford Street for so many years.

 

[Statto]

The issue for me passengers do use the buses down Oxford Street. Not everyone wants to use the tube/crossrail, & even in Central London there are some gaps that the tube/crossrail doesn't cover, which buses fill. Not everyone wants to change from one bus to another either just to get to Oxford Street.

 

[Busaholic]

But the 159 is not going to Oxford Street, as it will be terminating at stop P in Regent Street.

Changing to continue along Oxford Street will involve a walk of about 200 metres and crossing at least one road, assuming you know where you are going. This may not be an issue for most people, but will be for those who have mobility issues, who rely on the buses more than most people.

Stop BX outside Selfridges will not be of much use to someone who is disembarking from a 113 that is terminating at stop P on the South side of Oxford Street.

And how much longer will it be before the 7, 94, 98, 139 and 390 are curtailed or diverted away from Oxford Street, given that pedestrianisation is a long term aim of both Westminster City Council and TfL?

We know that TfL wishes to terminate the 94 at Marble Arch but is being prevented from doing so because of terminal and related issues. The 7 hasn't been a very frequent route for years and the 139 sometimes has large gaps at the southern end of the route which, given it will be the only bus route turning from Oxford Street into Regent Street, is diabolical. I'd expect the 139 to be diverted along Wigmore Street anyway.

I can only wish the disability organisations which campaigned so effectively for bus wheelchair access and the death of the Routemaster would take up the issue and get the ear of the Mayor, that's if he has any ears. If I still lived in London I'd certainly get involved in campaigning. I love walking, but can only do so with difficulty and aids: I couldn't step up on to a Routemaster platform to save my life these days, so that walk from the Regent Street 159 stop round to Oxford Street wouldn't be easy for me, and as the 159 is 'my' route from South London when I'm staying in London it wouldn't be merely theoretical either.

 

[chopperman21]

I wondered whether these were from the cancelled Reading order (two of the five of which have already been sold to Johnsons). However, the bus has 'zero emissions' on its side, so I assume that it is a battery EV version. Given that GoAhead are still waiting for their order to be completed, when did Centaur order these?

The style of these is similar to the Tower Transit and Metroline ones, i.e. without the revised front incorporating camera mirrors.

The 'CN' registration is unusual - where is the CN licencing office?

Yeah it is definitely a new build electric, the Reading ones have high back leather seats.

It's quite a big commitment to order an electric vehicle, especially in a "non London" spec, so it's not as if it can be used on TfL routes if they dispose of it. I assume their depot has had to be upgraded.

I would imagine that the cost was covered by the University, as I understand the charging equipment is on campus.

 

[Timmyd]

In the old days of RMs (or open-platformed LTs), it was actually very practical to travel down Oxford Street by bus, and hop on and off closest to where you wanted to be. As with so much of bus travel in London in recent years, the current Mayor has made the bus a very unattractive option, which is crazy because for short journeys it should be the most practical option, let alone for those with mobility problems.

 

[Mikey C]

In the old days of RMs (or open-platformed LTs), it was actually very practical to travel down Oxford Street by bus, and hop on and off closest to where you wanted to be. As with so much of bus travel in London in recent years, the current Mayor has made the bus a very unattractive option, which is crazy because for short journeys it should be the most practical option, let alone for those with mobility problems.

I really liked the open platform on the Borismasters, coming from High Street Ken it was great to have a choice of the 9 or 10 into the West End, and being able to jump off on Piccadilly or Oxford Street where I wanted to.

The issue for me passengers do use the buses down Oxford Street. Not everyone wants to use the tube/crossrail, & even in Central London there are some gaps that the tube/crossrail doesn't cover, which buses fill. Not everyone wants to change from one bus to another either just to get to Oxford Street.

And people use the bus to get across Central London too, it's not as if the whole world just wants to get a bus from outer London to one end of Oxford Street.

 

[Statto]

And people use the bus to get across Central London too, it's not as if the whole world just wants to get a bus from outer London to one end of Oxford Street

Indeed, not everyone want's to use the tube (or Crossrail whenever that opens] for various reasons, & the bus is a pleasant way to travel through Central London to.

As for 94/159 couldn't they be diverted these via Park Lane & Piccadilly (maybe serving Pall Mall, i know the 9 went this way for a whilst) & if TFL are worried about lack of stand space at Marble Arch, extend the 159 to Paddington or Paddington Basin.

How about merging the night 64 with N109, so the N109 serves New Addington direct from Central London again, the old incarnation before becoming N159, the N109 was Aldwych, Coulsdon or New Addington

 

[Astradyne]

Unfortunately public transport is not there for peoples wants but peoples needs. If they need to get from A to B there is a solution in place, not that they have a range of options to pick from

 

[Busaholic]

Unfortunately public transport is not there for peoples wants but peoples needs. If they need to get from A to B there is a solution in place, not that they have a range of options to pick from

It is there for both, though I accept need should trump want. Most people shopping in Oxford Street are not doing so out of need, given there are very few supermarkets, but for 'retail therapy' or whatever you want to call it. If the number of foreign (in particular) tourists is ever to approach previous numbers then measures which will not dissuade them from coming need to be forthcoming. The comparison with what Paris offers will be particularly crucial, and I was watching a U.S. NBC news broadcast a week ago showing the extent to which Americans are back in Paris and being welcomed with open arms. Of course, the extent of Paris's evergrowing public transport system of all types and simplicity of use/fares will not be lost on some, with trams/light rail being added to the mix all the time, and not just in outlying suburbs that attract very few tourists, Regrettably, so unlike London.

 

[chopperman21]

RATP have put some of their spare LT new routemasters on route 111 (Kingston- Heathrow) today, it is part of a phased conversion of the route over next 3 weeks

Only RATP LT's so far - like LT147 but other operators buses should be transferring soon.

 

[johncrossley]

Of course, the extent of Paris's evergrowing public transport system of all types and simplicity of use/fares will not be lost on some, with trams/light rail being added to the mix all the time, and not just in outlying suburbs that attract very few tourists, Regrettably, so unlike London.

Central Paris (i.e. Paris 'proper') has a relatively sparse bus network because the metro network is so dense. On most roads there is only one bus route so you nearly always have to change buses. Not a problem as they've long had their 'hopper fare'. Even with the recent reductions in central London and recent improvements in Paris, the central London bus network is still much more dense.

 

[Busaholic]

Central Paris (i.e. Paris 'proper') has a relatively sparse bus network because the metro network is so dense. On most roads there is only one bus route so you nearly always have to change buses. Not a problem as they've long had their 'hopper fare'. Even with the recent reductions in central London and recent improvements in Paris, the central London bus network is still much more dense.

Buses have been the 'poor relation' in Paris for as long as I can remember. When I first went there in 1975 any bus ride needed a minimum of two carnets, three for longer journeys, and traffic remained static for long periods during peak hours, whereas a metro ride of any length only cost one carnet. As you say, buses weren't/aren't seen as anything other than an adjunct to a wonderful metro/RER system with trams now taking the place of some bus routes and creating entirely new journey opportunities too. Even if we started now, London couldn't produce anything to rival Paris's dense railway network within a century: nor am I suggesting they try! I would hate to think that London's bus network compared badly to Paris's in general terms, though, and it's not beyond possibility in the medium term imo.

 

[duncanp]

With regard to the changes to routes 113 and 159 on 28th August, I note that there is same stop interchange available for passengers who wish to continue their journeys, contrary to what I said earlier.

For the revised 113 : -

Same stop interchange can be made between routes 113 and 139 at Bus Stop BZ named Orchard Street / Selfridges towards Oxford Circus and at Bus Stop BA also named Orchard Street / Selfridges heading northbound towards Baker Street.

For the revised 159:-

Same stop interchange can be made between routes 94 and 159 heading towards Marble Arch at Bus Stop RC, named Oxford Circus Station, on Regent Street heading towards Marble Arch. Southbound same stop interchange between routes 94 and 159 can be made at Bus Stop RG, named Oxford Circus Station, on Regent Street heading towards Piccadilly Circus.

But I wonder how well this will be publicised, if at all.

The interchange from the 113 on to the Southbound 139 requires you to get off at the last but one stop, for example.

And how much longer will it be before the 94 is curtailed at Marble Arch or diverted to somewhere like Victoria, thus breaking the same stop interchange with the 159.

TfL's propensity to do away with printed maps, and even some of the Spider maps on their website, doesn't make finding information about bus services or planning a journey any easier.

 

[Snow1964]

TfL have published consultation results on 19th August to last years proposed bus changes in the Aldwych area

Results updated 19 Aug 2021​

We are now able to publish the consultation report and our response to the key issues raised around the bus stop locations, the report can be found below.

Strand and Aldwych bus changes consultation report (PDF 525KB)

We are aware that the new location of bus stops will impact on some passenger journeys and we have mitigated these where possible. There will also be people who benefit from shorter walks to bus stops as a result of the changes.

The works on the Strand and in the surrounding areas are well underway. We are reacting to the changes by re-routing and changing bus stop locations. Dates for these changes are dependent on the wider works taking place.

We will monitor the impact of the changes on passenger journeys and keep under review bus stop locations and buses serving the stops.

If you have any questions about the consultation please contact us at: [email protected].

Have Your Say Transport for London

Stay informed by joining Have Your Say Transport for London

consultations.tfl.gov.uk

2 days later (today, Saturday 21st August) they are making the changes

Aldwych changes - 21 August 2021​

Routes Affected: 1, 6, 9, 11, 15, 26, 59, 68, 76, 87, 91, 168, 172, 188, 243, 341, 521, N1, N9, N11, N15, N21, N44, N68, N87, N89, N91, N155, N171, N199, N343, N550, N551 and X68.

Full details (changes to stops on each route are on this link)

Bus changes

Permanent changes to TfL bus routes including new routes and changes to first and last stops.

tfl.gov.uk

 

[duncanp]

I would be very surprised if the changes at Aldwych start today.

I passed through the area last night, and everything was blocked off, and the associated roadworks hardly started, let alone finished.

TfL consultations are just a sham. They just do what they want to anyway, regardless of the results.

 

[londonteacher]

I would be very surprised if the changes at Aldwych start today.

I passed through the area last night, and everything was blocked off, and the associated roadworks hardly started, let alone finished.

Is that not why the changes are happening? For the roadworks?

 

[Surreytraveller]

I would be very surprised if the changes at Aldwych start today.

I passed through the area last night, and everything was blocked off, and the associated roadworks hardly started, let alone finished.

TfL consultations are just a sham. They just do what they want to anyway, regardless of the results.

I agree that they are a sham.

 

[MotCO]

Agree they are a sham

In fairness, although I think TfL will always push ahead with their schemes, I think that they will allow the public to tweak the schemes if there are some obvious flaws or ways in which the scheme can be improved.

 

[Snow1964]

Plenty of London bus routes are getting timetable changes in next few weeks, some are seeing fairly heavy frequency cuts, especially in central area.

Timetable changes - 28 August 2021​

Routes Affected: 2, 7, 9, 16, 27, 28, 30, 43, 53, 60, 115, 142, 148, 153, 316, 367, 377, 386, 407, 433, 466, 487, 507, 521, 631, 639, 643, 646, 648, 649, 651, 655, 664, 670, 675, 684, 690, E2, N2, N7, N9, N27, N72, N113, X26 and X68

Timetable changes - 4 September 2021​

Routes Affected: 18, 23, 28, 49, 117, 120, 140, 156, 182, 183, 186, 204, 253, 254, 267, 292, 295, 398, 415, 418, 467, 638, 652, 672, C3, H9, H10, N140 and X140

Full details of changes to each route are on attached link, but it is quite long so I won’t quote it in full

Bus changes

Permanent changes to TfL bus routes including new routes and changes to first and last stops.

tfl.gov.uk

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Good evening, this coming Saturday 28 Aug, I may be traveling on the 243 bus from Waterloo to Old Street, it's more convenient than the Underground. I see from TFL that there are road works in that area and the 243 will be affected, but does not say which bus stops may be closed. I think the ones from / to Waterloo at Old Street are stops F & G, then J, K, H & l. Does anyone know if buses will not stop at any of these.
I am going to a venue by Ebenezer Street Jct with City Road.

Thanks.

 

[Mike99]

Evening all, Can I just double check, are all London Bus journeys within zones 1 - 6 ? For example Norwood Junction to New Addington via Route 130, continuing on Route 464 to Biggin Hill 'Post office', and then R8 to Downe?
Thanks for any replies
Mike

 

[Snow1964]

Strictly there are no longer zones for buses, and some do go beyond the London Borough boundaries into neighbouring counties.

The zone 6 outer boundary is not identical to the outer borough boundaries either (if it did would have places like Hampton Court station outside, with a boundary on the river bridge). Off-topic but the London truck/bus low emission zone has another different boundary (and driving over Hampton Court bridge and road to Sunbury are outside the zone).

There is a flat fare, regardless of how many stops you travel. You can change bus and if using same card don’t get charged again, this is known as the hopper. It is advertised as 1 hour, although it used to be 69 minutes (but was reduced to 62 minutes few months ago). You only have to touch in on subsequent bus within an hour; it doesn’t matter if you finish your journey 90 minutes after starting the first bus.

The same fare applies even if the bus route goes outside the London boundary on TfL services (fares are different if you use an outside London bus service whose route ends inside London, as some do at places like Kingston, Heathrow, Uxbridge etc).

 

[busesrusuk]

Only RATP LT's so far - like LT147 but other operators buses should be transferring soon.

The 111 was, from today, effectively full LT operation with a couple also appearing on the H32. One interesting transfer is of LT131 which is currently sporting an overall advert - see here:

London Utd LT131v2 Aug21 | Heathrow Central, Aug 2021 | Flickr

A consequence of transferring the LT's out of Shepherds Bush is that the instances of E400EV's on the 148 has increased including the use of brand new electrics ordered for routes such as the 49. The new buses have electronic blinds; unfortunately traffic managed to screw up photo ops today - maybe tomorrow...

 

[Deerfold]

Evening all, Can I just double check, are all London Bus journeys within zones 1 - 6 ? For example Norwood Junction to New Addington via Route 130, continuing on Route 464 to Biggin Hill 'Post office', and then R8 to Downe?
Thanks for any replies
Mike

To add to the answer above, if you have a travelcard for any TfL zones, you can use TfL buses in any Zone, so you could have a Zone 5-6 travelcard and then catch the bus all the way into Zone 1, or have a Zone 1-2 travelcard and catch a TfL bus to Staines.

 

[Mike99]

Thank You Deerfold

 

[cnjb8]

Are Metroline closing Alperton depot? Apparently there is a farewell event soon.

 

[Three_Counties]

Alperton closes after Friday 10th with a farewell open day on the Saturday.

 

[Snow1964]

Alperton closes after Friday 10th with a farewell open day on the Saturday.

The farewell open day is Saturday 11th between 10:30 - 4pm
Link is the poster with details, £2.50 admission on the gate (proceeds to charity)

Alperton Garage Farewell Open Day - 11th September 2021 | Metroline

Please see below for details on Alperton Garage's Farewell Open Day: Image not loading? Click here.

www.metroline.co.uk

The replacement garage is expected to open about year later, and in interim, routes will be dispersed to other Metroline garages. Metroline lose 2 routes this weekend (117 to London United, X140 to London Sovereign) so need less space.

 

[cnjb8]

Alperton closes after Friday 10th with a farewell open day on the Saturday.

The farewell open day is Saturday 11th between 10:30 - 4pm
Link is the poster with details, £2.50 admission on the gate (proceeds to charity)

Alperton Garage Farewell Open Day - 11th September 2021 | Metroline

Please see below for details on Alperton Garage's Farewell Open Day: Image not loading? Click here.

www.metroline.co.uk

The replacement garage is expected to open about year later, and in interim, routes will be dispersed to other Metroline garages. Metroline lose 2 routes this weekend (117 to London United, X140 to London Sovereign) so need less space.

Thank you

 

[ScottGallagher]

Does anyone know the sudden reason for 2 permanent bus stands being created in Margaret Street either side of Regent Street and what route will use them?