London Buses Discussion

[Andyh82]

Out of interest, where do buses layover at White City Bus Station?

There are no visible layover stands, buses just drive off into the bowels of Westfield before reappearing later

 

[MPW]

I have seen a double deck Superloop bus (sorry, didn't catch the make) driving down Southborough Lane towards Petts Wood a few times recently. I can't think of depot that it could be going to so I'm hopelessly optimistic they are trialling a new route.

 

[adrianjohnson]

Out of interest, where do buses layover at White City Bus Station?

There are no visible layover stands, buses just drive off into the bowels of Westfield before reappearing later

There is a layover area underneath White City. If you catch a bus from White City that heads towards Shepherds Bush station (so it goes under White City), you can quickly spot it to your left.

 

[Busoccultation]

I have seen a double deck superloop bus (sorry, didn't cath the make) driving down southborough lane towards petts wood a few times recently. I can't think of depot that it could be going to so I'm hopelessly optimistic they are trialling a new route.

That will likely be a dead run for the existing Superloop SL3 route that is operated out of Stagecoach Bromley garage.

 

[MPW]

That will likely be a dead run for the existing Superloop SL3 route that is operated out of Stagecoach Bromley garage.

That's too reasonable to be right. I will continue to dream of a superloop route stopping outside my house until conclusively proven otherwise.

 

[WAB]

The erstwhile Sullivans are now being hauled up in front of the Traffic Commissioners.

link

Section 5.1 – Notice of Public Inquiries to be Held Public Inquiry (90231) to be held at The Court Room (Cambridge), CB2 8BF, Eastern Traffic Area, Eastbrook, Shaftesbury Road, Cambridge, on 10 September 2024 commencing at 10:00 PF1144361 SN SULLIVAN BUSES ENGINEERING LTD Director(s): DEAN SULLIVAN 6 DEARDS HOUSE, ST ALBANS ROAD, SOUTH MIMMS, POTTERS BAR, EN6 3NE S26 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 26 (The Transport Act 1985) S17 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 17 (The Public Passenger Vehicles Act 1981) S28 - Consideration of disciplinary action under Section 28 (The Transport Act 1985)

 

[MotCO]

The erstwhile Sullivans are now being hauled up in front of the Traffic Commissioners.

link

Presumably any adverse outcome from the hearing would also affect the Hertfordshire, non-TfL routes, or are they operated by different companies with different directors, Traffic Manager etc?

 

[Goldfish62]

Presumably any adverse outcome from the hearing would also affect the Hertfordshire, non-TfL routes, or are they operated by different companies with different directors, Traffic Manager etc?

Sullivan Buses Engineering was always the side of the business that operates primarily Herts/non-TfL stuff. Its sole director is Dean Sullivan.

 

[matt_world2004]

Is there a good reason to replace Wayfarers with something else, given that tickets aren't being issued? The Oyster reader is better positioned for quick boarding compared to the Ticketer machines.

There are some smart tickets that cannot be read by the ticket machine (Eg ENCTS passes )and there is no ability to update them for things like rail replacement buses or when tickets from other operators need to be accepted

 

[davews]

Some drivers still don't seem to understand that their machines cannot read ENCTS passes. One driver insisted I scanned mine the other week despite me telling him it wouldn't work (loud beep beep beep...).

 

[Deerfold]

Some drivers still don't seem to understand that their machines cannot read ENCTS passes. One driver insisted I scanned mine the other week despite me telling him it wouldn't work (loud beep beep beep...).

I wonder why they still can't. There's no hardware reason they can't and a software update was supposed to be imminent when I worked for TfL, which is over 8 years ago.

 

[Edvid]

Some drivers still don't seem to understand that their machines cannot read ENCTS passes. One driver insisted I scanned mine the other week despite me telling him it wouldn't work (loud beep beep beep...).

I wonder why they still can't. There's no hardware reason they can't and a software update was supposed to be imminent when I worked for TfL, which is over 8 years ago.

Assuming you're both referring to ENCTS passes issued by non-London local authorities - I'd be surprised if the readers didn't recognise Freedom Passes - I'd be interested to know if they recognise ITSO-fulfilled outboundary Travelcards. If they do, it would be interesting to know why only one works as opposed to both.

 

[Blindtraveler]

A travelcard issued by Southeasten on a smartcard works fine
My non London ENCTS does not

 

[Goldfish62]

Assuming you're both referring to ENCTS passes issued by non-London local authorities - I'd be surprised if the readers didn't recognise Freedom Passes - I'd be interested to know if they recognise ITSO-fulfilled outboundary Travelcards. If they do, it would be interesting to know why only one works as opposed to both.

They recognise Freedom passes, but not non-London ENCTS.

I recall that several years ago there was a programme of upgrading readers to accept ENCTS, but after numerous issues it seemingly got abandoned, never to see the light of day again!

 

[PeterC]

Some drivers still don't seem to understand that their machines cannot read ENCTS passes. One driver insisted I scanned mine the other week despite me telling him it wouldn't work (loud beep beep beep...).

Still? I had one driver ask me to scan my card a few months after ENCTS was introduced. Never had a problem since.

 

[greenline712]

Still? I had one driver ask me to scan my card a few months after ENCTS was introduced. Never had a problem since.

AIUI ... TfL ticket machines are not ISO compliant, whereas all ENCTS passes are so coded. Until the TfL machines are replaced (apparently soon-ish), then that is it.
Remember that TfL ETM kit is now around 20 years old ... ISO compliance wasn't a thing then.
A good illustration of how much and how quickly software changed back in the day ... remember Windows 10 and Windows 12? Less than 2 years between them??

 

[Goldfish62]

AIUI ... TfL ticket machines are not ISO compliant, whereas all ENCTS passes are so coded. Until the TfL machines are replaced (apparently soon-ish), then that is it.
Remember that TfL ETM kit is now around 20 years old ... ISO compliance wasn't a thing then.
A good illustration of how much and how quickly software changed back in the day ... remember Windows 10 and Windows 12? Less than 2 years between them??

The ETMs are being removed under iBus2 and not replaced. Instead there will be a console combining functionality for iBus2 and the card reader.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe it may be late next year when things start rolling out.

 

[greenline712]

The ETMs are being removed under iBus2 and not replaced. Instead there will be a console combining functionality for iBus2 and the card reader.

Don't quote me on this, but I believe it may be late next year when things start rolling out.

Thanks ... I wasn't aware of the detail, but it makes sense. Hopefully the card readers will be ITSO-compliant.
I understood that the project was originally due in 2024, so a 12-month slippage ... I guess that's par for any such project now.

 

[Deerfold]

AIUI ... TfL ticket machines are not ISO compliant, whereas all ENCTS passes are so coded. Until the TfL machines are replaced (apparently soon-ish), then that is it.
Remember that TfL ETM kit is now around 20 years old ... ISO compliance wasn't a thing then.
A good illustration of how much and how quickly software changed back in the day ... remember Windows 10 and Windows 12? Less than 2 years between them??

As I say, there's no hardware reason for them not to be ITSO-compliant (assuming that's what you mean). As mentioned above, they accept ITSO smartcards issued by rail companies are accepted, and the readers were supposed to be having a software upgrade to allow non-London ENTCS cards, which wouldn't be possible if the hardware wouldn't accept it.

 

[Goldfish62]

Thanks ... I wasn't aware of the detail, but it makes sense. Hopefully the card readers will be ITSO-compliant.
I understood that the project was originally due in 2024, so a 12-month slippage ... I guess that's par for any such project now.

Yes, they'll be ITSO-compliant.

 

[renegademaster]

Is the South Croydon Arriva garage getting electroliners too? I occasionally see them head out of service down Brighton Road. Or is it a positioning move for starting 64s down in New Addington?

 

[Busoccultation]

Is the South Croydon Arriva garage getting electroliners too? I occasionally see them head out of service down Brighton Road. Or is it a positioning move for starting 64s down in New Addington?

Just Thornton Heath for South London, 194 is currently a South Croydon based route that will be moving over to Thornton Heath once they can start using the Electroliners on the route.

 

[talldave]

Saw a couple of the new 358s at Crystal Palace today - one under the charger, so maybe some testing going on.

 

[MotCO]

Saw a couple of the new 358s at Crystal Palace today - one under the charger, so maybe some testing going on.

I was wondering / hoping that they would be in service in time for the 61/261 Running Day on 14th September. It would be good to see the new and old running alongside each other on Bromley Common.

 

[Mikey C]

I saw my first 310 in Golders Green today. For a moment I had thought Metroline had found something more modern to put on the 268 instead of the usual elderly E200s, but then I realised what it was! A Stagecoach E200MMC of some sort.

 

[KX03HZY]

Two proposals out to consultation announced today on consolidating routes in inner South London:

45/59/118 - https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/45-59-118-proposals

We’re proposing to make changes to routes 45, 59 and 118 between Elephant & Castle, Camberwell, Brixton, Clapham Park, Streatham and Morden. As shown in the map below, the proposal would include a merger of routes 45 and 118, and the 118 would no longer run.

14/414 - https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/14-414-proposals

We are proposing to merge bus routes 14 and 414.

As a result, route 414 would no longer run.

 

[dmncf]

Out of interest, where do buses layover at White City Bus Station?

There are no visible layover stands, buses just drive off into the bowels of Westfield before reappearing later

Buses lay over in the grade II list Dimco Buildings. If you Google 'Dimco Buildings bus' there are some interesting articles and photos including: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dimco_Buildings

 

[Thirteen]

Route 414 used to go to Maida Hill but now it's redundant as a bus route nowadays since it was cut back to Marble Arch.

 

[adrianjohnson]

Buses lay over in the grade II list Dimco Buildings. If you Google 'Dimco Buildings bus' there are some interesting articles and photos including: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Dimco_Buildings

I thought they don't use that building anymore but layover underneath White City shopping centre?

Exit as shown on Google Street View

 

[Goldfish62]

I thought they don't use that building anymore but layover underneath White City shopping centre?

Exit as shown on Google Street View

That's right. They're under Westfield.