London Buses Discussion

[Andyh82]

Two proposals out to consultation announced today on consolidating routes in inner South London:

45/59/118 - https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/45-59-118-proposals


14/414 - https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/14-414-proposals

I wonder if the regional mayors pay attention to this sort of thing whilst celebrating the utopia of ‘London style’ bus services

 

[Goldfish62]

I wonder if the regional mayors pay attention to this sort of thing whilst celebrating the utopia of ‘London style’ bus services

What's your objection to these proposals?

And where else would there be a public consultation on such service changes?

 

[MotCO]

Two proposals out to consultation announced today on consolidating routes in inner South London:

45/59/118 - https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/45-59-118-proposals

I can see the logic of merging these routes and removing the 118. However, what is missing from the Consultation is at what freuency the new routes will operate. If there is no increase in existing frequencies, then I can see some dissatisfied passengers having fewer buses per hour to catch, and there could be over-crowding issues.

 

[dmncf]

I thought they don't use that building anymore but layover underneath White City shopping centre?

Exit as shown on Google Street View

Cheers for the correction.

 

[Mcv378]

I've filled it in, I've also pointed out their mistake in the opening question.

 

[deltic]

I can see the logic of merging these routes and removing the 118. However, what is missing from the Consultation is at what freuency the new routes will operate. If there is no increase in existing frequencies, then I can see some dissatisfied passengers having fewer buses per hour to catch, and there could be over-crowding issues.

The corridors are presently wildly over bussed. I would further reduce the number of buses between Camberwell and Elephant & Castle.

 

[Goldfish62]

I can see the logic of merging these routes and removing the 118. However, what is missing from the Consultation is at what freuency the new routes will operate. If there is no increase in existing frequencies, then I can see some dissatisfied passengers having fewer buses per hour to catch, and there could be over-crowding issues.

I'm assuming there's no change to frequencies, unlike the 14/414 change where it's mentioned that the 14 frequency will increase. It would have useful to state for clarity though

 

[PGAT]

I'm assuming there's no change to frequencies, unlike the 14/414 change where it's mentioned that the 14 frequency will increase. It would have useful to state for clarity though

It’s unclear whether or not the Morden section will remain 5bph or inherit 45’s 6bph and TfL could twist it to be either depending how they feel

 

[johncrossley]

The 414 was one of those additional routes introduced before the congestion charge to provide extra capacity and new direct links. Obviously the importance of having a direct link is hugely reduced now due to the Hopper Fare and real time information on your phone, meaning that it is nearly always better to get the first bus that comes along and change where necessary. For example, there's no point waiting for the 414 if a 14 comes first. Get the 14 to Hyde Park Corner station and change onto the 74 or 137, or walk around the corner where there are countless buses to Marble Arch.

 

[Snow1964]

Big batch of tender results announced yesterday

Routes changing operators, new electric buses on 7 year contracts
31 moves to RATP with pvr 15
G1 moves to Transport UK with pvr 11

Following retained by existing operators :
263 and 270 with new electric buses with 7 year contracts
125, 139, 274, 331, 335, 460 existing buses, 3 year contracts

London Omnibus Traction Society

Britain's biggest bus enthusiasts' group.

www.lots.org.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

Big batch of tender results announced yesterday

Routes changing operators, new electric buses on 7 year contracts
31 moves to RATP with pvr 15
G1 moves to Transport UK with pvr 11

Following retained by existing operators :
263 and 270 with new electric buses with 7 year contracts
125, 139, 274, 331, 335, 460 existing buses, 3 year contracts

London Omnibus Traction Society

Britain's biggest bus enthusiasts' group.

www.lots.org.uk

The 270 is interesting because it uses youthful buses (20-plate E400 hybrids with camera mirrors) which are going to be displaced. Unusual when the incumbent retains a route. Just an observation.

 

[dmncf]

The 31 will presumably move to RATP London Transit's Westbourne Park garage. It's good to see them regain a route, as over the past few years that garage has lost a lot of work including the 28, 31 & 328.

 

[Blindtraveler]

263 is already electric? Is it not? Or am I confusing it with something else?
The hybrid e400 could quite easily find work elsewhere in London or cascaded to the provinces where such a vehicle would be welcome

 

[Mikey C]

The 31 will presumably move to RATP London Transit's Westbourne Park garage. It's good to see them regain a route, as over the past few years that garage has lost a lot of work including the 28, 31 & 328.

I always found it baffling that one by one they managed to lose those routes. As an aside, to me it makes sense to have one operator operating all 3 routes, as it gives operational flexibility when there are major traffic issues.

I'm slightly surprised the 139 isn't down for early conversion to electric buses, seeing that runs through the West End down much of Oxford Street and Regent Street.

 

[Taunton]

Sorry to intrude from elsewhere, but I have a London bus stops question. What are the identification letters in the circular plate above bus stop signs actually called, and when did they get rolled out. I think I can remember them at key points like Victoria back as far as the 1970s, keyed to a local map on the bus stop pole, but it seems only in recent times they were extended to everywhere.

 

[LUYMun]

Saw this YouTube video on my feed as of lately, so I thought it might be relevant on here. It goes into depth about the bus stops in the Croydon area being removed a few years back and not reinstated.

 

[Goldfish62]

Sorry to intrude from elsewhere, but I have a London bus stops question. What are the identification letters in the circular plate above bus stop signs actually called, and when did they get rolled out. I think I can remember them at key points like Victoria back as far as the 1970s, keyed to a local map on the bus stop pole, but it seems only in recent times they were extended to everywhere.

Point letters.

 

[317 forever]

263 is already electric? Is it not? Or am I confusing it with something else?
The hybrid e400 could quite easily find work elsewhere in London or cascaded to the provinces where such a vehicle would be welcome

There had been plans to introduce electric buses on route 263, and as replacements for the hybrids on route 245. The hybrids from both routes would have replaced diesel buses on routes E2 & E8.

However, these plans were quietly dropped. The rebuilt/replaced Brentford base can take electric buses now.

 

[Thirteen]

I saw a 493 yesterday which was the same BYD bus as the 39, 265 etc so I'm guessing Go-Ahead has decided to roll them out on that route.

I wonder if the 170 will get the BYD buses eventually?

 

[Dr_Paul]

A recent report here states that the proposals to pedestrianise Oxford Street are likely to go ahead, as the government is likely to permit the London Mayor's office to overrule Westminster Council's objections. If the proposals do go ahead, the western end of the street will be pedestrianised by 2027. I'm at a bit of a loss as to where the buses might run once Oxford Street is closed to vehicles: the nearest suitable east/west routes are either Piccadilly to the south or Marylebone Road to the north, both quite some distance away. The streets in between are largely narrow and most are quite unsuitable for buses.

 

[Goldfish62]

Wigmore Street

A recent report here states that the proposals to pedestrianise Oxford Street are likely to go ahead, as the government is likely to permit the London Mayor's office to overrule Westminster Council's objections. If the proposals do go ahead, the western end of the street will be pedestrianised by 2027. I'm at a bit of a loss as to where the buses might run once Oxford Street is closed to vehicles: the nearest suitable east/west routes are either Piccadilly to the south or Marylebone Road to the north, both quite some distance away. The streets in between are largely narrow and most are quite unsuitable for buses.

Wigmore Street (A5204) is what's been looked at previously.

 

[Bishopstone]

A recent report here states that the proposals to pedestrianise Oxford Street are likely to go ahead, as the government is likely to permit the London Mayor's office to overrule Westminster Council's objections. If the proposals do go ahead, the western end of the street will be pedestrianised by 2027. I'm at a bit of a loss as to where the buses might run once Oxford Street is closed to vehicles: the nearest suitable east/west routes are either Piccadilly to the south or Marylebone Road to the north, both quite some distance away. The streets in between are largely narrow and most are quite unsuitable for buses.

I imagine the number of east-west routes that use this corridor will be pruned further, before the scheme is implemented.

 

[Goldfish62]

I imagine the number of east-west routes that use this corridor will be pruned further, before the scheme is implemented.

Unless I've forgotten something only the 98 runs the full length of Oxford Street now.

 

[Edvid]

Latest publicised order for Metroline (108 buses) includes another 45 first-gen E400EVs.

IN FLEET NEWS THIS MONTH

■ Chesters of Walken ceases trading following loss of contracts...

www.keybuses.com

Metroline London DG

Newly announced orders are for 53 WDE-class 10.6m Wright StreetDeck Electroliner double-deckers for Highgate route 4 and Brentford routes E2 and E8, 45 BDE-class BYD/Alexander Dennis Enviro400EV City for Perivale [routes 90 and 98,] and ten WSEL-class 10.9m Wright GB Kite Electroliner single-deckers for Highgate route 153.

LOTS reports that fleetnumbers allocated are 10.3m Wright GB Kite Electroliner WSE2929-62 for routes 143 and C11; 9.7m MCV-bodied Volvo BZL VMSS2963-72 for Potters Bar route 382; similar but 10.8m VMSL2973-84 for Willesden Junction route 206; and BYD/Alexander Dennis Enviro400EV City BDE2985-3030 for Willesden Junction route 206 (one bus), Cricklewood 210, Highgate W7 and Potters Bar W8.

 

[Bishopstone]

Unless I've forgotten something only the 98 runs the full length of Oxford Street now.

There are, I think, five routes which use Oxford Street between Oxford Circus and Selfridges (with x4 of them continuing to Marble Arch), all of which will need to be amended in some one when the scheme is delivered.

 

[Statto]

Two proposals out to consultation announced today on consolidating routes in inner South London:

45/59/118 - https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/45-59-118-proposals


14/414 - https://haveyoursay.tfl.gov.uk/14-414-proposals

Cutting the 414 from Maida Vale to Marble Arch in 2019 made the 414 pointless, the 14 should have a frequency increase to compensate if the 414 is withdrawn.

 

[Andyh82]

There are, I think, five routes which use Oxford Street between Oxford Circus and Selfridges (with x4 of them continuing to Marble Arch), all of which will need to be amended in some one when the scheme is delivered.

And linking both this and the post above together, the withdrawal of the 414 will free up a stand at Marble Arch for maybe service 7 to use instead of terminating at Oxford Circus

That would leave just the 390, 98, 94 & 139 to use Wigmore Street

 

[Goldfish62]

Cutting the 414 from Maida Vale to Marble Arch in 2019 made the 414 pointless, the 14 should have a frequency increase to compensate if the 414 is withdrawn.

Which it's going to have.

There are, I think, five routes which use Oxford Street between Oxford Circus and Selfridges (with x4 of them continuing to Marble Arch), all of which will need to be amended in some one when the scheme is delivered.

Yes, but as I said I think only the 98 runs the full length of Oxford Street. All the western end routes, Inc the 98 can run via Wigmore Street.

Although services along Oxford Street had already been pruned quite a bit in a conscious effort to reduce the number of buses, Covid cuts reduced them further which makes the case so much easier to remove the lot.

 

[Busman84]

This was the talk pre covid and with the crossrail project would probably have made Oxford St busier with the public and the bus service kept as it was..
The thing is now if they do make Oxford St fully for pedestrians it will kill things even more.

 

[MotCO]

This was the talk pre covid and with the crossrail project would probably have made Oxford St busier with the public and the bus service kept as it was..
The thing is now if they do make Oxford St fully for pedestrians it will kill things even more.

Oxford Street is quite a long road, and buses are helpful for getting shoppers dropped off nearest their favourite shops.