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London cycle taxi rickshaws.

stadler

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Horsley
Is it not about time that London bans those horrid cycle taxi rickshaw things or whatever they are called. They are nothing but a complete and utter nuisance. They serve no benefit.

These cycle taxis gather around all the busy tourist spots and cause a complete and utter nuisance. I am so fed up of these things. Leicester Square, Piccadilly Circus, Oxford Circus, Green Park, Westminster, Houses Of Parliament, Harrods, Selfridges, Oxford Street, Regent Street, Covent Garden, Marble Arch, etc, seem to be their main spots. Basically wherever you get lots of tourists. The worst is the Summer time and around Christmas time. So basically tourist season. It gets a little better in the Winter time with cold weather when less of them are out.

They clog up the pavements and cause severe overcrowding. They gather around in groups and completely block the pavement. I have seen dozens and dozens of instances where you can barely move due to all of these things blocking the pavement. Go somewhere like Piccadilly Circus or Leicester Square in the Summer and you can sometimes get more than ten or fifteen of them all in one place on the pavement. It makes it very hard to walk in what is an already busy packed area when they are all parked up on the pavement. They are responsible for so much pedestrian congestion in these busy areas.

They also blast out music constantly and cause noise pollution. The thing that makes it worse is that the cycle taxis gather in groups and you get five or ten of them next to each other on the pavement all blasting out different songs. So you can not even properly hear the song they are playing as all their music is playing at once. Why blast out music when you can not even properly hear it because you are all playing it at once. It causes utter noise pollution and sounds horrible. Nobody wants to listen to that while walking around the London streets every time you pass by one of these things. It is so unpleasant.

There is nothing good about these things. You never hear any positive reviews about them. If you look online all you see is tourists complaining about being ripped off. They make black cabs look cheap. I have heard stories of people being charged £50 to go from Piccadilly Circus to Oxford Circus and £100 to go from Leicester Square to Green Park and other crazy ridiculous prices. Nobody goes on them a second time. You never hear anything positive about these things.

Why has the council in London not done anything about these. Surely they could ban them. They have introduced dozens of regulations for proper taxis so why do they just allow these things to continue operating and doing as they please.
 
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signed

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Paris, France
There is a bill that passed last year to give TfL the enforcement power


The Pedicabs (London) Bill gives Transport for London (TfL) powers to crack down on rogue pedicab drivers by regulating fares and improving safety standards – bringing the industry into line with other forms of transport in the capital.

’s pedicabs and protect passengers by:


  • conferring powers on TfL to bring forward a licensing regime for pedicabs in a similar way to local authorities throughout the rest of England and Wales
  • providing TfL with the ability to introduce fare control to combat overcharging on pedicab services and protect consumers from being ripped off
  • allowing TfL to set standards for operators, drivers and their vehicles to improve the safety of pedicabs, as well as introducing insurance requirements and ensuring vehicles are roadworthy
  • ensuring that pedicab drivers undergo criminal record and right to work checks before being allowed to carry passengers in the same way that drivers of taxis and private hire vehicles must do, allowing passengers to use pedicabs with confidence and cutting crime
  • giving TfL powers to take steps to improve congestion and tackle issues, such as highways obstruction. TfL will be able to restrict the presence of pedicabs in certain areas, at certain times. This will help improve road safety and traffic-related issues in central London
  • enabling enforcement action against those operating without a licence or outside their licence conditions, including civil sanctions and criminal offences. Since being introduced, it has received widespread support in both Houses, as well as from businesses across London

And there has been a consultation from January to early March to draft those regulations


Transport for London (TfL) is inviting people to have their say on proposals to regulate pedicabs in London for the first time. Pedicabs can provide a unique and green way to see parts of the capital. However, pedicabs are the only form of unregulated public transport in London, and this has led to inconsistencies in the way services operate, with some customers being charged well-documented rip-off fares. There is a need to ensure any regulations prioritise the safety of passengers and pedestrians, and minimise fare issues as well as anti-social behaviour caused by loud music and poor driving.


To support the pedicab industry to offer a safe, professional and reliable service, TfL is seeking views on several proposals, including that:


  • All pedicab drivers would be required to have a one-year pedicab driver's licence and would need to meet a set of safety standards such as criminal backgrounds checks
  • Drivers would need to demonstrate they understand their role and responsibilities
  • Drivers would be required to have appropriate insurance
  • Regular vehicle inspections would be required to check the condition of the vehicle to ensure it remains safe and roadworthy
 

Russel

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Whittington
I agree, they are a menace.

London has been plagued with this kind of thing for a long time though, American candy stores on Oxford street, the cup and ball scam, hot dog stalls to name a few...
 

stadler

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There is a bill that passed last year to give TfL the enforcement power






And there has been a consultation from January to early March to draft those regulations

Good to hear that some regulations are finally being proposed. It is long overdue. I just hope that they will also put effort in to emforcing it when it comes in to place.

I agree, they are a menace.

London has been plagued with this kind of thing for a long time though, American candy stores on Oxford street, the cup and ball scam, hot dog stalls to name a few...
The cup and ball scam is one that i fail to understand why they can not get rid of it. Walk along Westminster Bridge in the busy Summer tourist season and you can find as many as ten groups all along the bridge on both sides performing the scam. Meanwhile the police just ignore it and let it happen. Dozens of unaware foreign tourists continue to fall for this scam. This is one of the easiest to solve. Westminster is one of the most heavily policed areas and they just allow them to operate.
 

Bald Rick

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The cup and ball scam is one that i fail to understand why they can not get rid of it. Walk along Westminster Bridge in the busy Summer tourist season and you can find as many as ten groups all along the bridge on both sides performing the scam. Meanwhile the police just ignore it and let it happen. Dozens of unaware foreign tourists continue to fall for this scam. This is one of the easiest to solve. Westminster is one of the most heavily policed areas and they just allow them to operate.

None there today. The gangs doing this have ‘spotters’ further along the bridge who phone one of the ‘crowd’ if the police come on to the brifge, and everyone packs up very quickly. Seen it happen.
 

MikeFromLFE

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Leicester Forest East
None there today. The gangs doing this have ‘spotters’ further along the bridge who phone one of the ‘crowd’ if the police come on to the brifge, and everyone packs up very quickly. Seen it happen.
They were getting too clever at spotting the police and knew the usual officers so the police did some creative thinking: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/videos/c5yg6q0861ro
 
Last edited:

styles

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Fife (the Kingdom)
Once TfL introduce a fixed fare scheme, under their new powers, I expect these scam artists to almost disappear. It wont be a good way to earn a living and the riders will move onto something else.
 

sprunt

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WhIle I acknowledge they're a nuisance, which part of the operation is supposed to be a scam? Simply charging a high price for something isn't a scam. Are they quoting a price when people get in and then asking for more at the other end? If not, then the expensive prices come down to caveat emptor.
 

styles

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WhIle I acknowledge they're a nuisance, which part of the operation is supposed to be a scam? Simply charging a high price for something isn't a scam. Are they quoting a price when people get in and then asking for more at the other end? If not, then the expensive prices come down to caveat emptor.
Well at the moment, there is no requirement for them to quote a fare structure when you get in one. Tourists will be caught out assuming they'd be charged a semi-reasonable rate, even an expensive rate perhaps, but not an extortionate rate. You're talking £hundreds for a mile and a half.

There are actual scams as well, e.g. moving the decimal point on the card terminal, so you get charged £298 instead of £29.80. But as there is no clear fare structure that they have to follow, the police can't do much as they basically consider it a civil matter which you'll need to take up with your credit/debit card issued and hope they/the card scheme side with you. You could mount a case for fraud charging, but you'd need evidence that it wasn't a miscommunication/similar, which you don't have unless you've undercover recorded the whole interaction and it is very clear what price should've been paid.

If there's a predefined fare structure like there is for taxis, or some sort of audit trail like a quote on an app like Uber, the police and TfL are much more empowered to tackle the issue.
 

sprunt

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Well at the moment, there is no requirement for them to quote a fare structure when you get in one. Tourists will be caught out assuming they'd be charged a semi-reasonable rate, even an expensive rate perhaps, but not an extortionate rate. You're talking £hundreds for a mile and a half.
Yeah, but it's still not a scam. If you get into one without asking how much it's going to cost I've got limited sympathy.

(The other things you mention are obviously scams and should be pursued as such)
 

styles

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Yeah, but it's still not a scam. If you get into one without asking how much it's going to cost I've got limited sympathy.

(The other things you mention are obviously scams and should be pursued as such)
I would consider them a scam in a functioning society, personally.
 

Bletchleyite

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Yeah, but it's still not a scam. If you get into one without asking how much it's going to cost I've got limited sympathy.

I'd say it was a scam. In the UK it is normal practice to get into a black cab and trust that the fare will be correct as per the TfL fare structure, we do not negotiate first. It's thus reasonable to expect that people may well do the same for these, and they take advantage of that with unreasonable fares.

I would consider them a scam in a functioning society, personally.

I would too. I think TfL's regulation of them is long overdue.
 

greyman42

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Well at the moment, there is no requirement for them to quote a fare structure when you get in one. Tourists will be caught out assuming they'd be charged a semi-reasonable rate, even an expensive rate perhaps, but not an extortionate rate. You're talking £hundreds for a mile and a half.
If they try to rip you off then just walk away without paying anything. What are they going to do, go to the police?
 

NCT

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London
They are menace. They ignore traffic lights and lane markings, block cycle lanes, come out in front of bicycles, and block buses. They should be banned.
 

route101

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Well at the moment, there is no requirement for them to quote a fare structure when you get in one. Tourists will be caught out assuming they'd be charged a semi-reasonable rate, even an expensive rate perhaps, but not an extortionate rate. You're talking £hundreds for a mile and a half.

There are actual scams as well, e.g. moving the decimal point on the card terminal, so you get charged £298 instead of £29.80. But as there is no clear fare structure that they have to follow, the police can't do much as they basically consider it a civil matter which you'll need to take up with your credit/debit card issued and hope they/the card scheme side with you. You could mount a case for fraud charging, but you'd need evidence that it wasn't a miscommunication/similar, which you don't have unless you've undercover recorded the whole interaction and it is very clear what price should've been paid.

If there's a predefined fare structure like there is for taxis, or some sort of audit trail like a quote on an app like Uber, the police and TfL are much more empowered to tackle the issue.
That's why I'm cautious using card in taxis and corner shops or anywhere where the cost is inputted into contactless reader devices. A corner shop in the city nearest to me was inputting extra digits for people buying things like a bag of crisps.
 

Bletchleyite

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That's why I'm cautious using card in taxis and corner shops or anywhere where the cost is inputted into contactless reader devices. A corner shop in the city nearest to me was inputting extra digits for people buying things like a bag of crisps.

Always, without exception, read the amount before tapping.
 

Thirteen

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Westminster Council have started putting warning ads in places like Leicester Square and advising people to take public transport.
 

Jimini

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Always, without exception, read the amount before tapping.

100% this. Round these parts (Reading) where Uber don't operate, it's very much a black cab market. I've had three occasions where the driver's made a "typo" at the end of journeys and just waved his card reader for me to tap through the partition, presumably hoping I wouldn't notice.

Going back to Rickshaws: I had the "pleasure" of running the marathon, back in 2019. After finishing, I pottered crawled up to Pall Mall to get an Uber to where I was meeting Mrs. Jimini after the event. There was a relatively old couple who were trying to get to Paddington to get their train home after watching their daughter participate. Rickshaws everywhere. As they were about to get in one, I advised them to ask him how much it would cost before setting off. The answer? £80! Fortunately they heeded my advice and waited it out until a black cab came past instead.
 

Bletchleyite

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100% this. Round these parts (Reading) where Uber don't operate, it's very much a black cab market. I've had three occasions where the driver's made a "typo" at the end of journeys and just waved his card reader for me to tap through the partition, presumably hoping I wouldn't notice.

One should even do this where the contactless terminal is part of a proper EPOS solution, because sometimes an error occurs and the wrong transaction is posted, or there is confusion which machine is for which till.

Never ever tap until you've read the amount, regardless of the setting. It's best just to make it "muscle memory"
like putting your seat belt on in a car. If you do, short of a fake terminal (very unlikely as the merchant agreement wouldn't last 5 minutes) you won't ever have an issue.
 

Haywain

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One should even do this where the contactless terminal is part of a proper EPOS solution, because sometimes an error occurs
This is true - I've had a pub inadvertently try to charge me the odd £500 for a pint, albeit quickly and apologetically corrected. Best practice for retailers is to ensure that the amount being charged is facing you when they offer the terminal to you for payment, and it frustrates me that there are plenty who don't do that.
 

Bletchleyite

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This is true - I've had a pub inadvertently try to charge me the odd £500 for a pint, albeit quickly and apologetically corrected. Best practice for retailers is to ensure that the amount being charged is facing you when they offer the terminal to you for payment, and it frustrates me that there are plenty who don't do that.

Agree - I always ask to see it in those cases.
 

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