London - day(s) on London trains.

[Bayum]

I’ve got a few weeks left before Manchester Pride and then back to school and teaching full time. I’ve been wanting to travel around London a bit more than I have in the past and see some specific areas of track that have intrigued me.
- Crossrail
- Steep hill at Lewisham
- Hills and point work around Sutton on the Thameslink terminators.

Are these doable in a day? Or would it be best to stay overnight and take my time? Usually, I’d get the 0830 GC or the LNER non-stop from York to Kings Cross and spend the day pottering about, hospital appointment and then a 1930ish train home. I have got the option of pushing my time home further back but would struggle for onward travel from York to my car.

If timings are tight, then I can get a hotel and stay down there and spend 48hrs travelling around on trains in case I find something else I want to see or travel to.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That should be do-able easily in the eleven hours available depending on what time your appointment is - I'm guessing quite early on from your arrival time?

Certainly the Sutton Loop and the Elizabeth Line are doable in a short space of time - they intercept at Farringdon for a start... so you could do the Elizabeth Line then surface at Farringdon and get a Sutton via Mitcham service, go two or three stops past Sutton then across the patform, short wait, get one back to Sutton but stay on it back to London.

That'll get you the pointwork and the steep gradient in both directions with minimal time used.

For the "steep hill" at Lewisham, not sure which gradient you mean but having done the Thameslink bit you can detrain at Blackfriars*, change platform then get to London Bridge and go to Lewisham from there...


*Use the stairs at the back of the train as you approach from Sutton; it's a quick straight down, across and up without having to go through any barrier lines. If you use the main end at the front of the train you'll be walking about five times as far and you'll get a passback failure on the second barrier line.

 

[Bayum]

That should be do-able easily in the eleven hours available depending on what time your appointment is - I'm guessing quite early on from your arrival time?

Certainly the Sutton Loop and the Elizabeth Line are doable in a short space of time - they intercept at Farringdon for a start... so you could do the Elizabeth Line then surface at Farringdon and get a Sutton via Mitcham service, go two or three stops past Sutton then across the patform, short wait, get one back to Sutton but stay on it back to London.

That'll get you the pointwork and the steep gradient in both directions with minimal time used.

For the "steep hill" at Lewisham, not sure which gradient you mean but having done the Thameslink bit you can detrain at Blackfriars*, change platform then get to London Bridge and go to Lewisham from there...


*Use the stairs at the back of the train as you approach from Sutton; it's a quick straight down, across and up without having to go through any barrier lines. If you use the main end at the front of the train you'll be walking about five times as far and you'll get a passback failure on the second barrier line.

Above would be my usual plan of attack if I had a hospital appointment. This time I don’t. I’d just be going down to play on trains

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Above would be my usual plan of attack if I had a hospital appointment. This time I don’t. I’d just be going down to play on trains

Then if you have the whole 11 hours available, you should have no problem at all getting all the bits you need in the one day.

 

[Bayum]

Then if you have the whole 11 hours available, you should have no problem at all getting all the bits you need in the one day.

I wouldn’t have the eleven hours though because my train into London wouldn’t arrive until ten/eleven leaving at 0830. Return trip would be 1930ish, so 8hrs or so in London?

 

[Techniquest]

You would be amazed how much you can get done in London in 8 hours!

I also don't know what hilly bit you refer to in Lewisham, the closest thing I can think of is the St John's avoiding line but I have basically no knowledge of that area. If you're able to elaborate on what you refer to in Lewisham, one of us can help you

As for the bits on the Sutton Loop of Thameslink, that wouldn't take too much of your time. Peter has already provided some useful information there, might I recommend doing the Epsom Downs branch while down that way? Perhaps even investigate the short-ish walk between Epsom Downs and Tattenham Corner for extra track coverage if these are required.

CrossRail, again this wouldn't take too long. I did Abbey Wood to Paddington in around 30 minutes when I did the new line on Day 2 of its opening. Of course, if you want to get out and explore the stations etc, then more time will be required. I've not kept track of it, but I don't think the final connections at Paddington and Liverpool Street are open yet, which means the trains 'only' run from Abbey Wood to Paddington with changes to the high level platforms required at both Paddington and Liverpool Street.

That's not to say it wouldn't be fun to do, I fully enjoyed my journeys on CrossRail, I suspect you will too as memory tells me you have an interest in engineering (I hope I'm not getting you mixed up with another forum member!) so you'd probably appreciate the huge civil engineering challenges that were overcome.

As for whether or not you should stay over and allow more time to travel around on trains, that is entirely up to you. It would allow you more time to go and do other trains in London, which would be a bonus, but of course it depends on how much you're willing to spend on accommodation, meals out etc.

Whatever you choose to do, you should manage your three main targets with ease and have plenty of time left over.

 

[Bayum]

You would be amazed how much you can get done in London in 8 hours!

I also don't know what hilly bit you refer to in Lewisham, the closest thing I can think of is the St John's avoiding line but I have basically no knowledge of that area. If you're able to elaborate on what you refer to in Lewisham, one of us can help you

As for the bits on the Sutton Loop of Thameslink, that wouldn't take too much of your time. Peter has already provided some useful information there, might I recommend doing the Epsom Downs branch while down that way? Perhaps even investigate the short-ish walk between Epsom Downs and Tattenham Corner for extra track coverage if these are required.

CrossRail, again this wouldn't take too long. I did Abbey Wood to Paddington in around 30 minutes when I did the new line on Day 2 of its opening. Of course, if you want to get out and explore the stations etc, then more time will be required. I've not kept track of it, but I don't think the final connections at Paddington and Liverpool Street are open yet, which means the trains 'only' run from Abbey Wood to Paddington with changes to the high level platforms required at both Paddington and Liverpool Street.

That's not to say it wouldn't be fun to do, I fully enjoyed my journeys on CrossRail, I suspect you will too as memory tells me you have an interest in engineering (I hope I'm not getting you mixed up with another forum member!) so you'd probably appreciate the huge civil engineering challenges that were overcome.

As for whether or not you should stay over and allow more time to travel around on trains, that is entirely up to you. It would allow you more time to go and do other trains in London, which would be a bonus, but of course it depends on how much you're willing to spend on accommodation, meals out etc.

Whatever you choose to do, you should manage your three main targets with ease and have plenty of time left over.

Yes. It’s the St John’s avoiding line that I’m looking at doing

 

[Trackman]

Yes. It’s the St John’s avoiding line that I’m looking at doing

Are you thinking of the Nunhead line off the St.Johns flyover? .. with steep gradient

 

[Bayum]

Are you thinking of the Nunhead line off the St.Johns flyover? .. with steep gradient

Maybe. I don’t know. It’s the line at 9:16 in this clip.

 

[telstarbox]

In that case you want a train to / from Charing X which use the higher level lines and don't call at New X or St John's.

 

[Bayum]

In that case you want a train to / from Charing X which use the higher level lines and don't call at New X or St John's.

Indeed

You would be amazed how much you can get done in London in 8 hours!

I also don't know what hilly bit you refer to in Lewisham, the closest thing I can think of is the St John's avoiding line but I have basically no knowledge of that area. If you're able to elaborate on what you refer to in Lewisham, one of us can help you

As for the bits on the Sutton Loop of Thameslink, that wouldn't take too much of your time. Peter has already provided some useful information there, might I recommend doing the Epsom Downs branch while down that way? Perhaps even investigate the short-ish walk between Epsom Downs and Tattenham Corner for extra track coverage if these are required.

CrossRail, again this wouldn't take too long. I did Abbey Wood to Paddington in around 30 minutes when I did the new line on Day 2 of its opening. Of course, if you want to get out and explore the stations etc, then more time will be required. I've not kept track of it, but I don't think the final connections at Paddington and Liverpool Street are open yet, which means the trains 'only' run from Abbey Wood to Paddington with changes to the high level platforms required at both Paddington and Liverpool Street.

That's not to say it wouldn't be fun to do, I fully enjoyed my journeys on CrossRail, I suspect you will too as memory tells me you have an interest in engineering (I hope I'm not getting you mixed up with another forum member!) so you'd probably appreciate the huge civil engineering challenges that were overcome.

As for whether or not you should stay over and allow more time to travel around on trains, that is entirely up to you. It would allow you more time to go and do other trains in London, which would be a bonus, but of course it depends on how much you're willing to spend on accommodation, meals out etc.

Whatever you choose to do, you should manage your three main targets with ease and have plenty of time left over.

There’s lots that I’m interested in. Not necessarily the engineering aspect of things but being out and about and experiencing a number of journeys and having fun travelling to new places Lewisham and the Sutton gradients were just things I’d noticed on YouTube videos. More than happy to experience other aspects people recommend that are interesting. There’s a number of separate grade crossings around Streatham and Tulse Hill that I’ve seen in videos and find interesting.

 

[Techniquest]

Fair enough, and I see someone has supplied you with the required information about the flyover. It's been way too long since I last did it so I couldn't comment.

No end of interesting stuff to do in London trains wise, I have not long got back from a big cycling day out so I haven't got the mental energy yet to list them. When I do, I'll be sure to get back to you

 

[Bayum]

Fair enough, and I see someone has supplied you with the required information about the flyover. It's been way too long since I last did it so I couldn't comment.

No end of interesting stuff to do in London trains wise, I have not long got back from a big cycling day out so I haven't got the mental energy yet to list them. When I do, I'll be sure to get back to you

Definitely interested to hear I don’t really know what’s down there unless I see things on YouTube really. I know the gradients I’ve mentioned aren’t anything particularly exciting or interesting but just something different to experience.

 

[Techniquest]

OK I have now had my large portion of chips, much better. Ideas then:

- Acton diveunder, used by Up Relief trains from Ealing Broadway towards Paddington.

- Willesden diveunder, used by Southern to go under the WCML and join the slow lines in the Wembley EUFOC area.

- Obviously CrossRail, it just has to be done, one of the most exciting bits of London's railways.

- Jubilee line, primarily for the racket of the 96 stock, especially in the underground bits

- DLR in general, it's definitely a rather enjoyable way to get around that part of London.

- Woolwich Free Ferry, easy enough to get to from the CrossRail station and it's certainly an unusual thing to do. Maybe do the foot tunnel on the way back to Woolwich station? I have a video of a ferry journey here:

I'm sure there's other things of interest too, like the absolute maze of lines all connecting up between Norwood Junction and East Croydon.

Talking of, there's the fun of the trams in Croydon too! If I think of anything else, I'll have to get back to you, but in the meantime I guess it depends on what you find interesting!

 

[Bayum]

OK I have now had my large portion of chips, much better. Ideas then:

- Acton diveunder, used by Up Relief trains from Ealing Broadway towards Paddington.

- Willesden diveunder, used by Southern to go under the WCML and join the slow lines in the Wembley EUFOC area.

- Obviously CrossRail, it just has to be done, one of the most exciting bits of London's railways.

- Jubilee line, primarily for the racket of the 96 stock, especially in the underground bits

- DLR in general, it's definitely a rather enjoyable way to get around that part of London.

- Woolwich Free Ferry, easy enough to get to from the CrossRail station and it's certainly an unusual thing to do. Maybe do the foot tunnel on the way back to Woolwich station? I have a video of a ferry journey here:

I'm sure there's other things of interest too, like the absolute maze of lines all connecting up between Norwood Junction and East Croydon.

Talking of, there's the fun of the trams in Croydon too! If I think of anything else, I'll have to get back to you, but in the meantime I guess it depends on what you find interesting!

The acton dive under and the HEX separation from Crossrail and the GWML is definitely something I'd like to see - not something I've been able to find much of on YouTube.
I've not done the Willesden diveunder before, so may do that.
Jubilee line - not a huge fan but can have a look around some of the longer runs between stations etc. Same for the Victoria line. I'd quite like to do some of the ATO areas where the S-Stock travel actually.

Quite a few things in addition to my list above it seems!

 

[Trackman]

Maybe. I don’t know. It’s the line at 9:16 in this clip.

That's the one.

- DLR in general, it's definitely a rather enjoyable way to get around that part of London.

The DLR is jolly good fun and in most places like a leisurely theme park ride.
Try sitting up front.
Always recommend it.