London Northwestern Railway announces "Destination Manchester"

[BigVern]

Could somebody please clarify the route from Crewe to Victoria - where do you branch east off the WCML? Does it involve a reversal?

 

[HSTEd]

Could somebody please clarify the route from Crewe to Victoria - where do you branch east off the WCML? Does it involve a reversal?

Well I suppose you could route via Newton-le-Willows?

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Could somebody please clarify the route from Crewe to Victoria - where do you branch east off the WCML? Does it involve a reversal?

Crewe to Warrington as per Avanti, then Warrington to Victoria as per Northern's Chester-Leeds services.

Same route Lumo want to use for their Euston-Rochdale bid.

 

[yorksrob]

I think this is an excellent idea.

In the context of the 21st century, LNR's concept of budget walk on fares is truly innovative and has the potential to win over lots of new passengers to rail. A nice change from the usual (yawn) "you'll travel when we say, and tell us months in advance or cough up" advance purchase system.

Now can we have the same for the ECML.

 

[WAB]

I doubt that DfT will permit a "budget" Manchester-London service with significantly lower fares than on Avanti.

It would rip the heart out of Avanti's business case and result in major subsidy increases.

The grapevine does suggest that WMT is really third-wheeling in the HS2-Avanti relationship, and is going to be the last to receive track access rights behind Avanti and Open Access.

 

[BigVern]

Well I suppose you could route via Newton-le-Willows?

Ah, I see, to go east you first go west at Winwick Junction. Thanks.

 

[TheGrew]

As a Newton-le-Willows local I selfishly hopes it stops here though if I'm honest I would prefer the Lump service for its use of proper intercity stock and faster running time from Warrington.

 

[185]

Timing is interesting. I wonder if this is related to the major political changes in days to come with contract operators, not long for this earth trying to become my new bst fwends with the incoming government?

WM had big plans for Manchester in 2018, with NR approving extension paths however COVID was used to justify abandoning it.

 

[6Gman]

A link from Stoke to Manchester Airport has been sought for a long time

They used to have one.

Operated by East Midlands.

It was little-used (I found it very useful, but I generally had only a handful of companions).

 

[AJDesiro]

I hope the Trent valley locals are happy with their already rammed service becoming even more so!

The extra capacity gained by using 10 car 730s in lieu of 8 car 350s will be eaten up by a cheap Manchester service, bringing us back to where we currently are with the current non-extended service.

 

[Howardh]

Excellent idea, but I don't fancy 200 miles on class ;730, from the pics I've seen on Wikipedia they look hard-as-iron seats like Thameslink. Now if they want to replace them with something more comfortable and add an affordable first class section I'd certainly be interested.

 

[JonathanH]

I hope the Trent valley locals are happy with their already rammed service becoming even more so!

Somewhat better than when a class 153 used to shuttle up and down the line from Coventry to Stafford. At least people use the Trent Valley local now.

 

[yorksrob]

Excellent idea, but I don't fancy 200 miles on class ;730, from the pics I've seen on Wikipedia they look hard-as-iron seats like Thameslink. Now if they want to replace them with something more comfortable and add an affordable first class section I'd certainly be interested.

The existing units on the Crewe service are a lot more comfortable than the ones on the 730 look.

 

[Howardh]

The existing units on the Crewe service are a lot more comfortable than the ones on the 730 look.

Can't disagree with that! If they had an affordable first section, maybe with a few snacks and soft drinks thrown in, might concentrate Avanti to lower their prices for first.
Assume though they would provide a trolley service for all?

 

[yorksrob]

Can't disagree with that! If they had an affordable first section, maybe with a few snacks and soft drinks thrown in, might concentrate Avanti to lower their prices for first.
Assume though they would provide a trolley service for all?

Might be better to stick the 750's on shorter services and reform some of the 350's into six carriage units so that the Crewe services could be extended to ten carriages.

 

[pokemonsuper9]

Might be better to stick the 750's on shorter services and reform some of the 350's into six carriage units so that the Crewe services could be extended to ten carriages.

Why bother with that when you could just run a triple 350 and make a 12 car?
12 cars of 350 is about equal to a 10 car 730.

 

[yorksrob]

Why bother with that when you could just run a triple 350 and make a 12 car?
12 cars of 350 is about equal to a 10 car 730.

That would be better. I was assuming the platforms weren't long enough.

 

[800001]

Excellent idea, but I don't fancy 200 miles on class ;730, from the pics I've seen on Wikipedia they look hard-as-iron seats like Thameslink. Now if they want to replace them with something more comfortable and add an affordable first class section I'd certainly be interested.

The seats are comfortable!

 

[Kite159]

I guess if it does happen, the good value 'TfW+LNR' only tickets will disappear with London - Manchester becoming "LNR" only.

Hopefully the seats on the 5 coach 730s are better than the narrow "3-1+2" seating layout of the 3 coach units

 

[Ashleyb1990]

Can Manchester Victoria handle 10 car services without any platform works?

Plan would be to couple and uncouple at Crewe with only 5 carriages carrying on to Manchester. The 5 Car left behind would then be shunted across for the departure 1 hour+ later

 

[ayubdaud]

Its not a new idea really. It just about works in the current timetable, the Stafford Crewe can sneak out in front to the TfW to get to the airport, and the Trent Valley will just have to hammer it up to Warrington as the Avanti Glasgow chases it. It will have to likely follow the Class 9 from Warrington going south. The Airport Stafford will likely have to be in front of the Avanti from Manchester.

The hourly freight slot to Trafford Park is in front of the TfW, isn't it? Not too sure how flexible that is without it sitting at Chelford or hanging back further next Sandbach, which may make it tighter on its path through Styal. I guess platform space might also be tight as you'd get stuck behind the CRE-MAN as that does not arrive to MIA until xx.52, which does not leave much time until the MAN-CRE arrives with a short reversal, and all the platforms are in use by that point.

 

[westcoaster]

Slightly of tangent, but did I remember just after introduction that 350's went to Preston.

 

[800001]

Plan would be to couple and uncouple at Crewe with only 5 carriages carrying on to Manchester. The 5 Car left behind would then be shunted across for the departure 1 hour+ later

So adding coupling/uncoupling to a busy station? And terminating service at Victoria in a through platform? What happens to unit at Victoria? Shunt out or stay until its departure?

 

[childwallblues]

Before this plan sees the actual light of day, I would hope that the following might be in place:-
1. Full implementation by LNW of the 30 minute M-S Liverpool LS - Birmingham New St service;
2. Full power upgrade to allow the second Euston to Lime St service to operate north of Crewe with the new class 807;
3. Transport for the North/Dft/GBR has a clear and agreed plan for the range of regional and local rail services through Manchester, both Victoria and Castlefield corridor so that the best use of the TRU and other infrastructure interventions e.g Victoria turn backs are fully utilised.

As I understand it Northern are to bring back the second Chat Moss stopper from Liverpool extended to Stalybridge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I guess if it does happen, the good value 'TfW+LNR' only tickets will disappear with London - Manchester becoming "LNR" only.

Hopefully the seats on the 5 coach 730s are better than the narrow "3-1+2" seating layout of the 3 coach units

They are the 450mm wide version of the Kiel seat with armrests, which is vaguely equivalent to those on 350s, or if you happen to like Fainsa Sophias there are those in the "1st class" area.

 

[Some guy]

It would be really interesting if they call at Hartford, Winsford and Acton bridge. That would be the first direct service between those stations and Warrington in a very long time

 

[Efini92]

Somewhat suprising.

They already need to use one of the thru platforms at Crewe (1, 5, 6, 11, 12) for 10 car 730 services. Path through Castlefield and terminating at Victoria is interesting...

How long are the 730’s? 10 cars will be a tight fit at Victoria.

 

[Energy]

How long are the 730’s? 10 cars will be a tight fit at Victoria.

120m so a 10 car would be 240m. I believe only platform 3 (255m) would be long enough.

 

[Lampshade]

I would definitely use this, Avanti are far too expensive now.

 

[185143]

How long are the 730’s? 10 cars will be a tight fit at Victoria.

They have SDO though. Wouldn't be the only station where SDO is used at the origin/terminus.