London Terminals Ticket.

[Spamcan81]

Is a London Terminals from Letchworth valid at Old Street or will the barriers reject the ticket?

 

[CarrotPie]

TL;DR: Yes

It is valid to King's Cross, St Pancras, Liverpool Street, Old Street and Moorgate.

 

[Spamcan81]

Many thanks. Plan is to travel to Old Street but return from KGX so that ticket will suit me fine.

 

[Hadders]

Just to add to this. It's valid via a change at Finsbury Park onto the National Rail service to Moorgate.
It's also valid via the Northern Line from Kings Cross St Pancras to Old Street (and Moorgate) but not valid to board or alight at any intermediater stations.
The ticket is highly unlikely to work the ticket gates to the Underground at Kings Cross St Pancras but staff will let you through manually.

 

[Spamcan81]

Just to add to this. It's valid via a change at Finsbury Park onto the National Rail service to Moorgate.
It's also valid via the Northern Line from Kings Cross St Pancras to Old Street (and Moorgate) but not valid to board or alight at any intermediater stations.
The ticket is highly unlikely to work the ticket gates to the Underground at Kings Cross St Pancras but staff will let you through manually.

The plan is to detrain at Old Street, visit a few pubs by foot and bus and then return home from Kings Cross so use of the Underground is unlikely.

 

[Haywain]

Make sure you buy the right ticket as one issued to London Thameslink is not valid at Old Street.

 

[Spamcan81]

Make sure you buy the right ticket as one issued to London Thameslink is not valid at Old Street.

Don’t worry. London terminals it will be.

 

[Hadders]

The plan is to detrain at Old Street, visit a few pubs by foot and bus and then return home from Kings Cross so use of the Underground is unlikely.

That's fine. If your train from Letchworth doesn't call at Finsbury Park (almost all of them do but I think there are some fast Cambridge trains that don't) or there's a poor connection at Finsbury Park then you can get the Northern Line from Kings Cross St Pancras.

 

[Spamcan81]

That's fine. If your train from Letchworth doesn't call at Finsbury Park (almost all of them do but I think there are some fast Cambridge trains that don't) or there's a poor connection at Finsbury Park then you can get the Northern Line from Kings Cross St Pancras.

We’re meeting up as a group so all making sure our various trains call at Finsbury Park so we can travel down to Old Street as a group.

 

[geoffk]

As this thread is still open - I've a super off-peak return for next month, Digby & Sowton to London Terminals. I shall be going to/from Paddington but clearly I could travel to Waterloo, or to Victoria changing at Clapham Junction. The information from GWR states - "the following London stations are available for travel with the chosen ticket". It then lists PAD, BFR, CTK, CST, CHX, LBG, WAE, VIC and WAT. No stations on the Elizabeth Line are included (e.g. Farringdon). The TfL website explains that tickets for National Rail services to/from London Terminals are not valid on the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Liverpool Street.

I wasn't aware of this and it seems odd that I can travel to/from Cannon Street, Blackfriars and City Thameslink with this ticket, all of which require a route via Waterloo East and London Bridge! Also a through ticket from Exeter to, say, Colchester, appears to be valid for travel between Paddington and Stratford.

 

[swt_passenger]

As this thread is still open - I've a super off-peak return for next month, Digby & Sowton to London Terminals. I shall be going to/from Paddington but clearly I could travel to Waterloo, or to Victoria changing at Clapham Junction. The information from GWR states - "the following London stations are available for travel with the chosen ticket". It then lists PAD, BFR, CTK, CST, CHX, LBG, WAE, VIC and WAT. No stations on the Elizabeth Line are included (e.g. Farringdon). The TfL website explains that tickets for National Rail services to/from London Terminals are not valid on the Elizabeth line between Paddington and Liverpool Street.

I wasn't aware of this and it seems odd that I can travel to/from Cannon Street, Blackfriars and City Thameslink with this ticket, all of which require a route via Waterloo East and London Bridge! Also a through ticket from Exeter to, say, Colchester, appears to be valid for travel between Paddington and Stratford.

Access to the various south London terminals that can be reached via Reading and Waterloo, with a change to Waterloo East is a longstanding right that predates the introduction of “London Terminals”. Of course that option doesn’t generally let you use LU.

But the Exeter to Colchester fare would have come with a cross London marker and Crossrail didn’t change that at all.

 

[Sleepy]

[/QUOTE]

But the Exeter to Colchester fare would have come with a cross London marker and Crossrail didn’t change that at all.

Bet Tfl hate this though ?

 

[Haywain]

Bet Tfl hate this though ?

Why would TfL hate this? It hasn't changed anything.

 

[swt_passenger]

Bet Tfl hate this though ?

I expect they’re still OK with that as they’ll get the same cross London contribution they always did. The problem if Crossrail allowed a London Terminal such as Liverpool St to be valid from the west, or Paddington from the east, is that it would have given TfL nothing.

 

[Somewhere]

Bet Tfl hate this though ?
[/QUOTE]
TfL get paid for it

 

[Sleepy]

Bet Tfl hate this though ?

TfL get paid for it
[/QUOTE]
Of course but they would prefer to scrap the arrangement and charge separately. Stop maintaining pesky CCST readers on barriers too.

 

[Hadders]

Of course but they would prefer to scrap the arrangement and charge separately. Stop maintaining pesky CCST readers on barriers too.

Have you got any evidence to back this up, or is it your opinion?

 

[geoffk]

Thanks for info. I'll be having my first ride on the Eliz Line anyway and it's easy enough to "touch in" at Paddington.

 

[Somewhere]

Thanks for info. I'll be having my first ride on the Eliz Line anyway and it's easy enough to "touch in" at Paddington.

Its only an issue if you join the Elizabeth Line from further back with a London Terminals ticket

 

[Sleepy]

Have you got any evidence to back this up, or is it your opinion?

Just opinion based on the One Day Travelcard saga few months ago and other thread discussions about cross London journeys on NR through tickets.

 

[redreni]

Just opinion based on the One Day Travelcard saga few months ago and other thread discussions about cross London journeys on NR through tickets.

Take the example of Slade Green to Euston. Say I want to go to Manchester and I have an advance single Euston to Manchester. The additional cost of buying that as a through ticket Slade Green to Manchester tends to be significantly greater than the £6.20 contactless fare from Slade Green to Euston.

Moreover the cost of a single ticket from Slade Green to London Underground Zones 1-6 (priced to include LU validity in no fewer than five unnecessary zones - there is no cheaper alternative) is £8.35 even at weekends with a Network Railcard discount applied.

The adverse consequences of using Oyster or contactless include greater difficulty in vindicating rights to travel on the next train if disruption causes the passenger, when travelling on a valid itinerary, to miss their connection at Euston onto a train for which an advance ticket is held. It also reduces slightly the value of any delay repay claim that might arise on the through journey. I don't suppose these are the reasons it's being done - it seems to be more a shared belief of TfL and the relevant TOCs that use of paper tickets within the contactless area should be discouraged. I doubt the pricing managers concerned have given the matter any serious or detailed thought from a passenger perspective. Although I'm sure GTR and Southeastern, for example, prefer not to be on the hook for delay repay on through journeys to destinations hundreds of miles from London.

 

[Somewhere]

I don't understand why a ticket needs to be held for Zones U1-6 when a few years ago you only needed U1 if travelling in only Zone 1 on the Underground.
Seems like a lack of competent people making the rules

 

[Joe Paxton]

[...]
Take the example of Slade Green to Euston. Say I want to go to Manchester and I have an advance single Euston to Manchester. The additional cost of buying that as a through ticket Slade Green to Manchester tends to be significantly greater than the £6.20 contactless fare from Slade Green to Euston.

Moreover the cost of a single ticket from Slade Green to London Underground Zones 1-6 (priced to include LU validity in no fewer than five unnecessary zones - there is no cheaper alternative) is £8.35 even at weekends with a Network Railcard discount applied.
[...]

I don't understand why a ticket needs to be held for Zones U1-6 when a few years ago you only needed U1 if travelling in only Zone 1 on the Underground.
Seems like a lack of competent people making the rules

That remains the case for origins outside the London zonal system (at least for zones 1-6). For origins with the London zones - of which Slade Green is one (it's in zone 6) - the arrangement descriped by redreni applies, and has done for at least a decade and a half.

 

[Somewhere]

That remains the case for origins outside the London zonal system (at least for zones 1-6). For origins with the London zones - of which Slade Green is one (it's in zone 6) - the arrangement descriped by redreni applies, and has done for at least a decade and a half.

Yes, I know, but why?

 

[Joe Paxton]

Yes, I know, but why?

I think the intent was to simplify multi-modal ticketing. I guess the logic is that those passengers starting from within the London zonal system (Greater London) are more likely to want to make journeys which involve substation legs on both train and Tube, whereas those coming in from outside London are likely to just want to make a relatively simple transfer by Tube after arriving at a central London terminus.

 

[Haywain]

it seems to be more a shared belief of TfL and the relevant TOCs that use of paper tickets within the contactless area should be discouraged.

TfL have a long standing strategy to reduce and, eventually, remove the use of paper tickets. It has many advantages both for TfL and the vast majority of users.

 

[Somewhere]

TfL have a long standing strategy to reduce and, eventually, remove the use of paper tickets. It has many advantages both for TfL and the vast majority of users.

But surely TfL cannot dictate what tickets are valid on non-TfL services? Surely if someone got on a London Overground train in Zone 6, they wouldn't be paying twice for their journey?

 

[Haywain]

But surely TfL cannot dictate what tickets are valid on non-TfL services? Surely if someone got on a London Overground train in Zone 6, they wouldn't be paying twice for their journey?

I'm not sure what you are saying, but are you not aware that London Overground is operated on behalf of TfL?

 

[Somewhere]

I'm not sure what you are saying, but are you not aware that London Overground is operated on behalf of TfL?

Yes, but London Overground don't provide services to Slade Green, that's Southeastern.
What I'm saying is, if you catch a London Overground train in Zone 6, and travel into Zone 1, you will only pay for zones 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1.
Do the same at Slade Green, and you pay for Slade Green to the London Terminal, plus Zone 1, but you are also paying unnecessary for zones 6, 5, 4, 3 and 2. So paying twice

 

[Haywain]

Yes, but London Overground don't provide services to Slade Green, that's Southeastern.
What I'm saying is, if you catch a London Overground train in Zone 6, and travel into Zone 1, you will only pay for zones 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, and 1.
Do the same at Slade Green, and you pay for Slade Green to the London Terminal, plus Zone 1, but you are also paying unnecessary for zones 6, 5, 4, 3 and 2. So paying twice

That really isn't how the fares work.