London to Liverpool Lime Street. 9th April

[afc75]

I Need to travel to Liverpool from London on the 9th April. Booking engines won't sell me a suitable itineray, any advice for quickest route, and routeing options.

Have an off peak ticket. Can be in London from around 8am. The earlier i get to Liverpool, the better.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Sunday 9th April 2023 is Easter Sunday.

No trains on the West Coast mainline between London Euston and Milton Keynes Central due to planned engineering works.

 

[Huntergreed]

There are engineering works between Euston and Milton Keynes on this day so the mainline is closed south of Milton Keynes.

It’ll likely be a replacement bus to there, with you being able to pick a train and change (there doesn’t seem to be any direct services from here) to get to Liverpool.

If you leave Euston at 8 and (being optimistic) can be in MK for 09:00, there’s an 09:10 itinerary changing at Warrington and Newton le Willows, arriving at 11:59.

Failing that, there’s a 09:24 (arriving 12:18) and a 10:10 (arriving 12:59).

 

[JonathanH]

I Need to travel to Liverpool from London on the 9th April.

Somewhat awkward to get from London to Liverpool on 9 April, with the lines shut from Euston to Milton Keynes, Stafford to Crewe and Crewe to Liverpool.

If you leave Euston at 8 and (being optimistic) can be in MK for 09:00

There is no replacement transport direct from Euston to Milton Keynes. It appears that Potters Bar is the railhead for stopping services, and Bedford for fast services.

The OP therefore needs to go from London to Bedford, then get a bus to Milton Keynes. Even that isn't available early on. First connection from Bedford gets to Milton Keynes at 1045.

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Presume the OP is wanting to attend the Liverpool v Arsenal football match, which has a 1630 KO.

National Rail website seems to be showing some interesting itineraries from London (to Liverpool Line Street) starting from Paddington and/or Marylebone.

 

[JonathanH]

National Rail website seems to be showing some interesting itineraries from London (to Liverpool Line Street) starting from Paddington and/or Marylebone.

Marylebone certainly seems to be the way to get north early on, although picking up the 0915 Reading to Manchester Piccadilly at Reading may also have advantages.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It I were you I wouldn't start from there...

Fastjp suggests the 0903 King's Cross-Leeds and then west via Stalybridge and Manchester Victoria, reaching Lime St at 1401.

Planner - Results - FastJP

www.fastjp.com

Or there's another convoluted route: 0930 St Pancras via Leicester, Nuneaton and Manchester Piccadilly arr Lime St 1424.

Many parts of the network are closed on Easter Sunday, and the WCML is closed south of Milton Keynes, also Stafford-Crewe.
Not a good day for fast, direct services.

 

[JonathanH]

Fastjp suggests the 0903 King's Cross-Leeds and then west via Stalybridge and Manchester Victoria, reaching Lime St at 1401.

Or there's another convoluted route: 0930 St Pancras via Leicester, Nuneaton and Manchester Piccadilly arr Lime St 1424.

Are either of those available to the OP with an off-peak return? They both would appear to be off route, even with engineering work closing the usual routes.

 

[afc75]

Presume the OP is wanting to attend the Liverpool v Arsenal football match, which has a 1630 KO.

National Rail website seems to be showing some interesting itineraries from London (to Liverpool Line Street) starting from Paddington and/or Marylebone.

Correct. Have hotel booked in city centre, but i really hate driving long distances if i can avoid it. Was asking if via Birmingham or other places on Midland Main Line/ East Coast main line would be valid/suitable.

Marylebone certainly seems to be the way to get north early on, although picking up the 0915 Reading to Manchester Piccadilly at Reading may also have advantages.

Thanks, had not considered the via Reading & Manchester route. Would an off peak return be valid. My actual ticket is an off peak return from Chelmsford to Liverpool.

 

[Llandudno]

Correct. Have hotel booked in city centre, but i really hate driving long distances if i can avoid it. Was asking if via Birmingham or other places on Midland Main Line/ East Coast main line would be valid/suitable.


Thanks, had not considered the via Reading & Manchester route. Would an off peak return be valid. My actual ticket is an off peak return from Chelmsford to Liverpool.

Is Chelmsford - Ipswich - Ely - Liverpool an option?

 

[MrJeeves]

St Pancras - Bedford - Milton Keynes, then onwards with Avanti (via Birmingham) is also a convoluted option, but not sure if it's any quicker than the direct Euston to MKC RRB since Bedford to Milton Keynes is also rail replacement.

 

[Alex365Dash]

Is Chelmsford - Ipswich - Ely - Liverpool an option?

Unfortunately, the Norwich - Liverpool service is only running Peterborough - Sheffield that day, so it’d actually be Chelmsford - Ipswich - Peterborough - Sheffield - Manchester - Liverpool.

Are either of those available to the OP with an off-peak return? They both would appear to be off route, even with engineering work closing the usual routes.

LNER’s journey planner seems to suggest the latter option via London, Leicester, Nuneaton and Manchester is.

 

[JonathanH]

LNER’s journey planner seems to suggest the latter option via London, Leicester, Nuneaton and Manchester is.

Yes, there is a short-term easement as described here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/national-routeing-guide-update.99396/page-51#post-6109446

701064 (Map) Due to engineering closures south of Milton Keynes from 07 April 2023 to 10 April 2023. This map easement will allow journey planners to show itineraries using rail replacement services and onward train journeys from Kettering and Bedford to London St Pancras International. It will apply in both directions.Over Easter, there are line closures between Milton Keynes and London Euston, and also between Bletchley and Bedford. The extent of the closure varies day to day.

This easement adds Rugby, Kettering, Bedford, West Hampstead Thameslink and London St Pancras to any mapped routes which need them.

Therefore, journeys via Kettering are valid on 9 April. Note that the Hope Valley line is shut, so going via Sheffield isn't straightforward.

Thanks, had not considered the via Reading & Manchester route. Would an off peak return be valid. My actual ticket is an off peak return from Chelmsford to Liverpool.

There are permitted routes from London to Liverpool via Reading and via Manchester, but technically not one which includes both. However, I think that the following itinerary would be fine (although the cross-London transit is tighter than required), effectively 'switching routes' in Birmingham.

0715 Chelmsford to London Liverpool Street 0758
0807 Liverpool Street to Paddington 0825 (Circle Line)
0833 London Paddington to Reading 0857
0915 Reading to Manchester Piccadilly 1230
1323 Manchester Victoria to Liverpool Lime Street 1401

The 0843 from London Paddington arrives in Reading at 0910 so may also be possible, but is under the required connection time at Reading.

It looks to me that the latter train could also be picked up travelling via St Pancras, Leicester and Nuneaton, with a later departure from London (0903 or 0930), provided transit between Piccadilly and Victoria was quick. Unfortunately closure of the Hope Valley means no quick trains via Warrington Central on that day.

One other option is to go via Shrewsbury - permitted on route combination ME+RB+RG via Reading.
0715 Chelmsford to London Liverpool Street 0758
0807 Liverpool Street to Paddington 0825 (Circle Line)
0833 London Paddington to Reading 0857
0915 Reading to Wolverhampton 1118
1141 Wolverhampton to Chester 1319
1330 Chester to Liverpool Lime Street 1413

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

TPE are reduced to a 2-hourly shuttle eg 1323 Manchester Victoria-Liverpool Lime St on Easter Sunday.
I wouldn't like to rely on TPE for that leg, even if it is an 802.
Otherwise Manchester-Liverpool consists of the hourly stoppers xx25 Piccadilly-Lime St via Chat Moss, or xx46 Oxford Road-Lime St via Warrington Central.

Edit:
Another search on RTT shows an hourly Leeds-Liverpool TPE service rather than the 2-hourly Vic-Liverpool.
The 0903 from King's Cross reaches Leeds at 1122 and TPE leaves at 1130 for Liverpool arr 1259.
This breaks the 10 minute connection time at Leeds but with luck might gain an hour.
P6-16 isn't the easiest transfer though.

 

[JonathanH]

Otherwise Manchester-Liverpool consists of the hourly stoppers xx25 Piccadilly-Lime St via Chat Moss, or xx46 Oxford Road-Lime St via Warrington Central.

Suggests that entry to Liverpool via Chester may be better, although I guess there a prospective passenger should be checking TfW journey check for cancellations or services starting at Wolverhampton?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

@afc75. Looks like the line between Reading, Oxford and Banbury is going to be shut for some time now, due to a problem at Nuneham Viaduct (about six miles South of Oxford), so if the OP was planning on going that way, from Paddington, they might well need a major re-think.

 

[CyrusWuff]

With Euston being closed, the MML being closed at Chesterfield - meaning trains are being diverted via Beighton (3 hours St Pancras to Sheffield!) - and the Hope Valley being closed, I'd be inclined to bite the bullet and either take a coach, drive, or find a pub to watch the match in.

Even if Didcot Parkway - Oxford reopens (which is unlikely based on reports elsewhere) Marylebone is going to be an utter nightmare, as two Birmingham services an hour haven't got anywhere near the same capacity as eight Pendolinos an hour. Kings Cross would fare better, but you're still looking at a journey time of around five hours.