London Underground And The Future

[Markdvdman]

After watching that London Underground prog on Channel 4 - do people really think it is safe to go with trains without guards?

The potential cutbacks are flaming dangerous - and really the H+S elements are potentially dangerous.

The irony is jobs are not getting created here in the UK with the Tory cutbacks, yet the USA have created over 200k jobs.

This is not good going forward - it needs addressing and people are no longer cared for in my eyes just statistics!

 

[CosherB]

After watching that London Underground prog on Channel 4 - do people really think it is safe to go with trains without guards?

The potential cutbacks are flaming dangerous - and really the H+S elements are potentially dangerous.

The irony is jobs are not getting created here in the UK with the Tory cutbacks, yet the USA have created over 200k jobs.

This is not good going forward - it needs addressing and people are no longer cared for in my eyes just statistics!

I'm sure I've travelled on modern urban rail transit systems in mainland Europe that don't have guards - and they are no less safe for that.

The argument above sound a bit like the old call in BR days for 'second men' in the cabs of diesels and electrics. Those, too, were proved to be nothing more than unneccessary overmanning.

 

[Markdvdman]

I'm sure I've travelled on modern urban rail transit systems in mainland Europe that don't have guards - and they are no less safe for that.

The argument above sound a bit like the old call in BR days for 'second men' in the cabs of diesels and electrics. Those, too, were proved to be nothing more than unneccessary overmanning.

Hi Captain,

Have you actually watched that program?

Mark

 

[SS4]

That program was ridiculously one-sided.

I'm not saying their concerns are not legitimate. It is more the maintenance of track and stations that need improving since, for the most part, people get on tube trains without much issue

 

[Markdvdman]

That program was ridiculously one-sided.

I'm not saying their concerns are not legitimate. It is more the maintenance of track and stations that need improving since, for the most part, people get on tube trains without much issue

It may well be but a fault of 8 sleepers reported dodgy in June and still not actioned - is that not ridiculous also?

 

[EM2]

After watching that London Underground prog on Channel 4 - do people really think it is safe to go with trains without guards?

The DLR does very well with trains that don't even have drivers.

 

[SS4]

It may well be but a fault of 8 sleepers reported dodgy in June and still not actioned - is that not ridiculous also?

Who's word do we have for it? Yes it''s ridiculous and I agree with you that the underground needs more staff and unfortunately I can see the price being paid in blood.
Improved maintenance means shutting the tube for longer overnight or closing more parts at weekends.


At least from said program we do know that the subsurface and surface parts of the "underground" are working without a hitch

 

[yorksrob]

I'm not sure about guards, but the impression I took away from the programme was that some of the cuts to station staff mentioned might be ill advised.

 

[whhistle]

It may well be but a fault of 8 sleepers reported dodgy in June and still not actioned - is that not ridiculous also?

I suspect this programme is using older data and was filmed during last year though.
The guy in it said something like "and here we are in February and they're still not fixed". As February has only just begun, I highly doubt they were talking about 2012.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I'm sure I've travelled on modern urban rail transit systems in mainland Europe that don't have guards - and they are no less safe for that.

The argument above sound a bit like the old call in BR days for 'second men' in the cabs of diesels and electrics. Those, too, were proved to be nothing more than unneccessary overmanning.

The key word you mention there is modern. Sucessive governments here have always gone for the cheap quickfix and not thought about the long term. Yes, Lille's automated system runs without guards or drivers (needs an armed security presence though) and the technology could be applied here but would mean building from scratch and not trying to upgrade 19th century infrastructure to cope with 21st century conditions.
London's tube system IS less safe because of the nature of it's deep level construction with regards to escape in the event of a fire underground. Basically if a fire occurs between the middle units in a deep level tunnel and you happen to be in the rear units then you are on your own with pretty much nowhere to go and no one to help you.

 

[tom1649]

Do people really think it is safe to go with trains without guards?

Yes I think they're pretty safe. Trains have operated mainly without incident and without guards since the Victoria line opened in 1968. The last guards operated on the Northern Line in January 2000, when the last few 1959 stock trains were withdrawn from service.

How often does LU rolling stock catch fire? Not very. Everything in life has a slight risk attached though.

 

[colchesterken]

I do not think there will be no one on the train, The DLR works well I love the front seat
I always wanted to be a train driver ,in the summer with my all zones oap ticket I went round all the new bits it seemed to work well
there will always need to be someone on board for emergences and to call the police for the drunks but the "train captain" seems to be OK

 

[Mutant Lemming]

.

How often does LU rolling stock catch fire? Not very. Everything in life has a slight risk attached though.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1167

Last incident involving a train was a while ago.

The point was is it as safe as " modern urban rail transit systems in mainland Europe that don't have guards "
and if you compare it to a modern newly built system with sprinklers, escape routes, purposely built for unstaffed operation etc then it plainly isn't.
London's underground will eventually have driverless trains (Victoria really always has been, Central and Jubilee near enough are). As has been pointed out, the technology is there and the management have stated it is where they will be heading but it is some way down the line yet. The infrastructure needs to be in place and that will take time and money. You have at least 20 years to wait for a fully driverless system. Whether those trains will be unstaffed is another matter.