London Victoria (Southern) disruption

[Cricketer8for9]

Bad things happen but Southern have compounded them. Lots of disruption; stern announcements not to join trains not advertised and then Southern does advertise the 18:08 departure in good time. The train is on the platform. At 18:15 the driver is announced to be at Clapham Jct.

Didn’t they know? If not why not? Surely the odd public address apology might have been nice.

 

[800001]

Bad things happen but Southern have compounded them. Lots of disruption; stern announcements not to join trains not advertised and then Southern does advertise the 18:08 departure in good time. The train is on the platform. At 18:15 the driver is announced to be at Clapham Jct.

Didn’t they know? If not why not? Surely the odd public address apology might have been nice.

Maybe one person looking after train crew, add in disruption, it’s very hard to keep an eye on every driver, every diagram.

 

[Cricketer8for9]

They weren’t keeping much of an eye on anything… if you don’t know don’t claim. Plus the all too common annoyance of letting the Caterham and Tattenham Corner train depart on time to get held at South Croydon while the train that’s fast to Purley overtakes. One miraculous day it will be held at East Croydon to allow the connection to be made.

 

[SECR263]

They weren’t keeping much of an eye on anything… if you don’t know don’t claim. Plus the all too common annoyance of letting the Caterham and Tattenham Corner train depart on time to get held at South Croydon while the train that’s fast to Purley overtakes. One miraculous day it will be held at East Croydon to allow the connection to be made.

Years ago there would have been people in control who had the bigger picture, not now, keep all services rolling to time and ignore the subtleties of the job, keeping the pass happy.

 

[Somewhere]

They weren’t keeping much of an eye on anything… if you don’t know don’t claim. Plus the all too common annoyance of letting the Caterham and Tattenham Corner train depart on time to get held at South Croydon while the train that’s fast to Purley overtakes. One miraculous day it will be held at East Croydon to allow the connection to be made.

Why not change at Purley? Sounds like it was done properly if the stopper was held at South Croydon for the connection to be made at Purley

Years ago there would have been people in control who had the bigger picture, not now, keep all services rolling to time and ignore the subtleties of the job, keeping the pass happy.

Its not the passengers that are to be kept happy, its the DfT

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Why not change at Purley? Sounds like it was done properly if the stopper was held at South Croydon for the connection to be made at Purley


Its not the passengers that are to be kept happy, its the DfT

That’s fine for passengers south of Purley. Not so good for those wanting South Croydon and Purley Oaks.

 

[Somewhere]

That’s fine for passengers south of Purley. Not so good for those wanting South Croydon and Purley Oaks.

The xx06/36 Thameslinks off East Croydon also stop at South Croydon. Change at Purley for Purley Oaks for the xx15/45 off Purley
If you start holding trains for other trains, the disruption gets significantly worse very quickly. There's also no one available to look at all these individual connections, then you've got to find a member of staff to answer the phone, and it will also significantly increase the signaller's workload
You've got to ask why the disruption happened in the first place - probably down to the government cutbacks. No staff to do maintenance, and no staff to manage the resultant disruption

 

[ctrh136]

That’s fine for passengers south of Purley. Not so good for those wanting South Croydon and Purley Oaks.

That is not an advertised connection though. I know people might use that but there is the TL train not far back or just take the East Grinstead service to Sanderstead

 

[NSE]

Plus platform 5 has 3 terminators per hour. It might well be the case the Purley one cannot call until the Caterham/Tattenham Corner has called at Platform 6 first

 

[Somewhere]

Plus platform 5 has 3 terminators per hour. It might well be the case the Purley one cannot call until the Caterham/Tattenham Corner has called at Platform 6 first

I also think other trains were being spun round at East Croydon due to the disruption as well, thereby reducing platform availability

 

[Dr Hoo]

The xx06/36 Thameslinks off East Croydon also stop at South Croydon. Change at Purley for Purley Oaks for the xx15/45 off Purley
If you start holding trains for other trains, the disruption gets significantly worse very quickly. There's also no one available to look at all these individual connections, then you've got to find a member of staff to answer the phone, and it will also significantly increase the signaller's workload
You've got to ask why the disruption happened in the first place - probably down to the government cutbacks. No staff to do maintenance, and no staff to manage the resultant disruption

Well, do we have any idea what had triggered the incident?
What recent cutbacks have been made to maintenance and control staffing in ‘the Central Division/Sussex’?

 

[Cricketer8for9]

According to Southern a traffic cone in the line at Wivelsfield (power off to recover) plus a signal failure nr Gatwick.

We came into platform 5 as the train left on platform 6. So no platform availability issues at that time. The Caterham train will get held at South Croydon as there is no reversible line south of there. Holding it at East Croydon would not have delayed things as it gets held one stop down the line anyway.
There are advertised connections and ones made most of the time. I’m not expecting a two minute connection to a train which heads off on another line. I am hoping for one where the train I am connecting into will get delayed anyway. Plus it’s cross platform at East Croydon.

 

[Somewhere]

According to Southern a traffic cone in the line at Wivelsfield (power off to recover) plus a signal failure nr Gatwick.

We came into platform 5 as the train left on platform 6. So no platform availability issues at that time. The Caterham train will get held at South Croydon as there is no reversible line south of there. Holding it at East Croydon would not have delayed things as it gets held one stop down the line anyway.
There are advertised connections and ones made most of the time. I’m not expecting a two minute connection to a train which heads off on another line. I am hoping for one where the train I am connecting into will get delayed anyway. Plus it’s cross platform at East Croydon.

The only connections are last trains. There's no such thing as a connection at any other time. They'll be another train behind the Caterham train waiting to come into Platform 6
Who's going to arrange to hold the train?

 

[NSE]

Holding trains at East Croydon is tough. If you back them up into Windmill Junction you’ll start interfering with those for West Croydon. The Reigate one you’re referring to (the Purley stopper) is a pickle as it has to cross the flat junction at Selhurst from the fast to the slows (southbound, vice versa northbound) so it’s likely that your wish genuinely can’t be accommodated into the wider timetable

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Sorry but no. At that time there are two down slow platforms. Holding the Cat/Tatt at East Croydon won’t cause problems. The 07 or 37 Thameslink won’t be delayed heading into East Croydon by platform 6 being occupied until 01/31. If the Cat/Tat leaves on time it gets held at South Croydon. All I’m suggesting is moving the inevitable delay one station earlier.

Holding trains at East Croydon is tough. If you back them up into Windmill Junction you’ll start interfering with those for West Croydon. The Reigate one you’re referring to (the Purley stopper) is a pickle as it has to cross the flat junction at Selhurst from the fast to the slows (southbound, vice versa northbound) so it’s likely that your wish genuinely can’t be accommodated into the wider timetable

I’d love the Reigate stopper to always be on time, but it does have Selhurst to negotiate so isn’t always. The Caterham and Tattenham Corner is the one I want held for 1 min at East Croydon as opposed to 2 mins at South Croydon. And yes, the minutes are different because if both were to leave E Croydon together the faster train would have got a block away before the Cat/Tatt had finished station duties at South Croydon.

 

[Somewhere]

Who's going to arrange to hold the train?

 

[Cricketer8for9]

Are station staff allowed any initiative?

 

[OxtedL]

I’d love the Reigate stopper to always be on time, but it does have Selhurst to negotiate so isn’t always. The Caterham and Tattenham Corner is the one I want held for 1 min at East Croydon as opposed to 2 mins at South Croydon. And yes, the minutes are different because if both were to leave E Croydon together the faster train would have got a block away before the Cat/Tatt had finished station duties at South Croydon.

Only one train can be dispatched at a time from P5 and P6 so you're also adding 1-2 minutes dispatch delay to one of the trains by having one wait for the other.

This whole conversation still feels like a massive non-issue because for Purley or south of there you should just stay on the Redhill train, and for South Croydon there's a Thameslink train due through P6 within 5 minutes. For Purley Oaks there's a decent option of going to Sanderstead which would only be 5-10 mins behind your Purley Oaks arrival time.

So a lot of fuss with little actual benefit for passengers on the ground.

 

[Somewhere]

You need to realise that the railway is not a customer focused organisation.
Its not like you're in the Highlands of Scotland with three trains a day, where this would actually be an issue.
If you cannot wait five minutes for the next train, there are literally hundreds of buses heading towards Purley along the Brighton Road. But by the time you've walked to the bus stop, the next train would have turned up.
If you're that desperate to catch that particular train, then catch an earlier train from Victoria. As three minutes is not even the minimum connecting time at East Croydon.

Are station staff allowed any initiative?

No. But as the above poster states, there are only so many platform staff available, so while one is stood explaining to the driver of the Caterham train what's going on, the Reigate train isn't going anywhere. Two delayed trains for the price of one, plus those building up in the queue outside the station. And it all snowballs.