Longest platform- platform interchange

[Western Sunset]

Is Dilton Marsh the longest walk between platforms at a request stop?

 

[berneyarms]

Is platform 10 ever actually in regular use?

No it is not in use.

It won’t return to operation until the new station opens as part of the DART+ Southwest project.

 

[BrianW]

I am pleased to have prompted nearly 100 replies to this thread; thank you to all who have contributed candidates or comments so far, all within 'the spirit'. I am struck by the distance that some are prepared to walk to 'make a connection', whether a recognised/ advertised one or not. I asked the question prompted by the thread about the perceived lack of connections at Old Oak Common, and conclude that much of that criticism is misplaced. Many of the 'long connections' result from the original competition of rival railway companiies and failure of foresight of landowners in resisting the railway 'back in the day'. And so it is today? Nothing however is necessarily however and I note the continuing expectations of passengers to 'make their own way between stations. Do feel free to disagree, or agree, with what may seem to be a failing to support ralway developments regardless of cost or benefit

 

[65477]

Last year at St Leonard’s Warrior Square to get from one platform to another you had to walk out of station, up to a bridge over railway then down to the other side. Apparently the footbridge is/was unsafe.

The same thing happened at Mark's Tey when the footbridge was out of use.

As Mark's Tey still doesn't have a lift the interchange from the Sudbury branch platform to the up platform, for wheelchair users, is via a train to Colchester and back. There must be longer journeys for wheel chair users on the network.

 

[DynamicSpirit]

I am pleased to have prompted nearly 100 replies to this thread; thank you to all who have contributed candidates or comments so far, all within 'the spirit'. I am struck by the distance that some are prepared to walk to 'make a connection', whether a recognised/ advertised one or not.

Just one point on that: Don't confuse, being prepared to walk with being happy to do so. I regularly interchange between the Elizabeth line and the Jubilee line at Canary Wharf, and also between the Elizabeth line and the Northern line at Moorgate. I find both of those connections intensely frustrating because of the long walks involved, and I very much wish the Elizabeth line had been built with more thought for how to make those kinds of connections less inconvenient. But in the end I continue to walk those connections because it's still the quickest way to make the journeys I want to make.

 

[BrianW]

The same thing happened at Mark's Tey when the footbridge was out of use.

As Mark's Tey still doesn't have a lift the interchange from the Sudbury branch platform to the up platform, for wheelchair users, is via a train to Colchester and back. There must be longer journeys for wheel chair users on the network.

Hopefully (!) there is a forward programme for addressing all such issues which continue to discriminate against wheelchair users?

 

[Watershed]

Just one point on that: Don't confuse, being prepared to walk with being happy to do so. I regularly interchange between the Elizabeth line and the Jubilee line at Canary Wharf, and also between the Elizabeth line and the Northern line at Moorgate. I find both of those connections intensely frustrating because of the long walks involved, and I very much wish the Elizabeth line had been built with more thought for how to make those kinds of connections less inconvenient. But in the end I continue to walk those connections because it's still the quickest way to make the journeys I want to make.

Agreed, same goes for interchanging between the Northern (Charing X branch) and Victoria lines. I've never understood why the Victoria line wasn't built with cross-platform interchange at Warren Street for example.

The interchange from Elizabeth to Jubilee line at Bond Street is similarly awful. The only 'core' interchanges that are decent are at Paddington (with the Bakerloo line or the ground-level NR station), Tottenham Court Road (with the Northern line) and Farringdon (with Thameslink/SSL).

 

[jamesst]

Liverpool Moorfields for Northern/Wirral line interchange

 

[Magdalia]

I am struck by the distance that some are prepared to walk to 'make a connection', whether a recognised/ advertised one or not.

West Hampstead Thameslink <-> West Hampstead (Mildmay Line) isn't a particularly long walk, but it is a connection that I have been using for a long time. It has git a lot easier over that time with the opening of new bridges with lifts at both stations.

I think it is a shorter walk than changing between Great Northern Moorgate branch and the Mildmay Line at Highbury and Islington, which is all part of the same station

 

[Warrior2852]

In EMR's recent experiments with closing the middle footbridge at Nottingham (something they keep contemplating making permanent), that leaves the only footbridge being at the far western end of the station - meaning that walking between platform 2 and platform 4, both short platforms at the far eastern ends of other, quite long, platforms' islands, quite the trek.

 

[froggy9]

I remember having to run the full length of platform 11 at Man Vic to Exchange to make a connection. Got it just in time. Also got soaked from an overfill on the water troughs at Lostock that day.

 

[BrianW]

Agreed, same goes for interchanging between the Northern (Charing X branch) and Victoria lines. I've never understood why the Victoria line wasn't built with cross-platform interchange at Warren Street for example.

The interchange from Elizabeth to Jubilee line at Bond Street is similarly awful. The only 'core' interchanges that are decent are at Paddington (with the Bakerloo line or the ground-level NR station), Tottenham Court Road (with the Northern line) and Farringdon (with Thameslink/SSL).

I imagine the provision of interchange opportnities was central to the design of the Victoria Line, indeed IIRC at first ALL the Victoria Line stations were interchanges of a kind. Maybe Warren Street was considered and rejected? Some same-platform interchanges were made at some consequential cost and disruption.

I also imagine that many occsional interchangers between Main Line/ Network rail termini make decisions about which line(s) to take based on a Tube map and assessments of time needed to 'get there' for a certain time.

Frequent travellers are perhaps more likely to 'try out' a variety of routes and interchanges, evaluating them on the basis of criteria reflecting their priorities, e.g. frequencies, length/ time taken, waiting times and facilities, ease, levelness, busyness, crowding, etc, etc.

People also make decisions on where to live and/or work with such considerations in mind.

 

[Magdalia]

I imagine the provision of interchange opportnities was central to the design of the Victoria Line, indeed IIRC at first ALL the Victoria Line stations were interchanges of a kind.

Pimlico has never been an interchange.

 

[Haywain]

I imagine the provision of interchange opportnities was central to the design of the Victoria Line, indeed IIRC at first ALL the Victoria Line stations were interchanges of a kind. Maybe Warren Street was considered and rejected? Some same-platform interchanges were made at some consequential cost and disruption.

It's likely that in designing the route of a new line compromises have to be made to achieve the best interchanges, do a better interchange at Warren Street might have led to a worse interchange at Euston.

 

[BrianW]

West Hampstead Thameslink <-> West Hampstead (Mildmay Line) isn't a particularly long walk, but it is a connection that I have been using for a long time. It has git a lot easier over that time with the opening of new bridges with lifts at both stations.

I think it is a shorter walk than changing between Great Northern Moorgate branch and the Mildmay Line at Highbury and Islington, which is all part of the same station

In my recollection, the 'availability' and promotion of interchange at such as West Hampstead has changed significanntly over the years. The Tube maps 'back inthe day' had only the LT Underground Lines on them. Indication of interchange with 'Main Line' trains was a later addition- a black open square symbol, as opposed to the open circle Tube interchange symbol. I forget how the 'sharing' of Bakerloo line and Broad Street/ Euston DC linnes was shown; similarly the Ricmond Distrist branch. Changing relationships between LUL and BR and consequently on maps was another factor. The introduction of maps showing BR and LUL lines superimposed on a map of Greater London were enlightening, and indirectly may have opened up opportunities to interchange. This Rail Forum testifies to the continuing seeking of 'crayonistas' to make more connections where lines cross!

People need to know that interchange is really possible at such as West Hampstead before they will take a chance of finding barriers, or obstructive 'jobsworths', or onboard 'revenue protection officers' (a difficult enough job), or have related anxieties. Many threads testify to the high level of inadvertant 'offending' and related treatment.

I note also the well-meaning attempts to show on maps and diagrams the availability of wheelchairs access to and between lines at individual stations, and the difficulties of showing these clearly and without 'clutter'.

 

[Dr Hoo]

Pimlico has never been an interchange.

It was a subsequent addition to the original plans and opened later, I thought. Hence the ‘at first’ qualifier in the earlier post.

 

[BrianW]

Pimlico has never been an interchange.

IIRC, Pimlico was not part of the original plan, which terminated at Victoria; and when extending to Brixton was underconsideration, Pimlico was resisted.

 

[Recessio]

It's likely that in designing the route of a new line compromises have to be made to achieve the best interchanges, do a better interchange at Warren Street might have led to a worse interchange at Euston.

Looking at the line routes on CartoMetro, I think you are right. Because of the angle of approach from Oxford Circus on one side and to Euston on the other, the Victoria line platforms have to be at 45° to the Northern ones.

I still don't think it's one of the longest interchanges on underground though, especially when Euston provides interchange for both lines too

 

[Haywain]

This Rail Forum testifies to the continuing seeking of 'crayonistas' to make more connections where lines cross!

Do you have a problem with people discussing interchanges that are both advertised on TfL's maps and included in their fares system?

 

[BrianW]

Do you have a problem with people discussing interchanges that are both advertised on TfL's maps and included in their fares system?

Am I missing something? No I don''t have that problem, though I may have others
I have made many crayonistic proposals myself, including 'back in the day' suggestions regarding West Hampstead- such an obvious opportunity to me- attracting a range of comments, including some rubbishing, including for veterans with much better knowledge than me helping me see how others saw the impossibilities/ constraints more readily than I. Every day a learning day!
If anything I'm rather drawn to tangential observations which a posting has prompted in me and going away from the thread title- indeed this thread was propmpted by the Old Oak thread and suggestions there of, as it might be thought, 'idiot professional plannersand politicians' not going with a more maximal station with many connections.
As a retired architect I am used to 'bright ideas' being consigned to the bottom drawer, and seeing ther light of day again maybe after many years; and time and money wasted in many a stop-go-change of direction, as per HS2!

 

[DanBlanchflowe]

Not really in the spirit of the OP but the longest of these fixed links is Yeovil Junction to Pen Mill, at 2.1 miles. 50 minutes is allowed in the journey planners to make the link.

I did that walk 2 years ago
Allowing myself a 40 min connection. That was pushing it but fortunately the Weymouth bound train was late.
80% of the route is along a winding country lane with no footpath & 10/20 vehicles a minute. Be warned.

 

[-Colly405-]

Not mentioned yet is the walk between platforms 12 and 1 at Temple Meads.

With the new signalling, trains on 12 tend to stop at the westerly extremity. You then walk back along 12, then along 11 to get to the subway, through the subway, up and to the left (following the one way signs) onto 4, along 3 and thence to 1.

 

[BrianW]

Not mentioned yet is the walk between platforms 12 and 1 at Temple Meads.

With the new signalling, trains on 12 tend to stop at the westerly extremity. You then walk back along 12, then along 11 to get to the subway, through the subway, up and to the left (following the one way signs) onto 4, along 3 and thence to 1.

Is this walk often required? I am a not a frequenter of Bristol Temple Meads. I have loooked on Real Time Trains, hoping to discern a pattern of services at these platforms, but to no avail I would hope that timetable planners take such concerns into consideration, recognising the exasperation of folk hoping to make such-and-such coonnectiions but seeing disappearing tail-lights! I know all origin -destination combinations cannot be met. Perhaps online ticketing sites can apply platform-dependant connection times, while also recognising late platform changes? A tall order I think.

 

[-Colly405-]

It sure is!
#1 is one of a number of platforms used by local terminators on the Severn Beach or Gloucester lines.
#12 is used by a significant number of XC services from the North East and Birmingham to the south west.
So people using a Bristol local journey to top or tail a long distance jounrey on XC are likely to need to do this walk...

 

[LittleRedTrain]

The walk from the country end of Marylebone P5/6 to the country ends of P1 or P2 is about 650m according to Google.
Given Chiltern have a habit of stabling empty trains at the buffer stop ends of the platforms, it's not an inconceivable walk if you are changing from an Aylesbury train to a Birmingham/Oxford train, or have a last minute platform change.

It's unfortunate that the steps up to Rossmore road are emergency exits only, otherwise they could be quite handy for swapping platform, or accessing the housing north of the station (with the residents who really hate Class 68s!)

 

[cjw714]

Is this walk often required? I am a not a frequenter of Bristol Temple Meads. I have loooked on Real Time Trains, hoping to discern a pattern of services at these platforms, but to no avail I would hope that timetable planners take such concerns into consideration, recognising the exasperation of folk hoping to make such-and-such coonnectiions but seeing disappearing tail-lights! I know all origin -destination combinations cannot be met. Perhaps online ticketing sites can apply platform-dependant connection times, while also recognising late platform changes? A tall order I think.

It sure is!
#1 is one of a number of platforms used by local terminators on the Severn Beach or Gloucester lines.
#12 is used by a significant number of XC services from the North East and Birmingham to the south west.
So people using a Bristol local journey to top or tail a long distance jounrey on XC are likely to need to do this walk...

Temple Meads is a fantastic station in many ways but one of the design faults is that the busiest trains, those to and from London, often depart from the platforms that are furthest from the main entrance.

 

[BrianW]

Temple Meads is a fantastic station in many ways but one of the design faults is that the busiest trains, those to and from London, often depart from the platforms that are furthest from the main entrance.

Like you, I recognise the constraints. 'Ideally' every train would arrive and depart at the nearest platform, or would everything at the same time be better? I don't say this to belittle anyone's contribution. Regarding Temple Meads, it looks to me (using Real Time trains) that the XC southbound trains consistently use Platform 12 fairly consistently; is there similarly consistent platforming for 'local' trains? bearing in mind my experience of inconsistency of Xc timekeping I guess it would be difficult to plan appropriately. Perhaps the planned 'Bristol Metro Network' might help, eventually?

The walk from the country end of Marylebone P5/6 to the country ends of P1 or P2 is about 650m according to Google.
Given Chiltern have a habit of stabling empty trains at the buffer stop ends of the platforms, it's not an inconceivable walk if you are changing from an Aylesbury train to a Birmingham/Oxford train, or have a last minute platform change.

It's unfortunate that the steps up to Rossmore road are emergency exits only, otherwise they could be quite handy for swapping platform, or accessing the housing north of the station (with the residents who really hate Class 68s!)

I recall many a 'parked' train at Maylebone buffer stops, long walks and smelly, noisey Class 68s. However, how many Aylesbury - Oxford travellers (or similar?) change at Marylebone, rather than Princes Risborough? I apprecaite that other journeys are possible, but not all can be accommodated. I guess that opening up the Rossmore Road exits for interchange would open a potential can of worms.

 

[Lemmy99uk]

Seascale on the Cumbrian coast only has 2 platforms, but the lack of a bridge or subway connecting them results in quite a long, hazardous walk to get from one to the other.

 

[BrianW]

Seascale on the Cumbrian coast only has 2 platforms, but the lack of a bridge or subway connecting them results in quite a long, hazardous walk to get from one to the other.

How often do folk walk from one Seascale platform to the other?

 

[Ian Hardy]

Temple Meads is a fantastic station in many ways but one of the design faults is that the busiest trains, those to and from London, often depart from the platforms that are furthest from the main entrance.

The reason for the London services departing from the high numbered platforms is that they arrive and depart to and from Keynsham which is on the south side of Bristol East. If they went into the low numbered platforms they would have to cross the lines from Filton. If they did that fewer services could operate in Temple Meads. So a choice a longer walk or fewer trains, you cannot have both.