Longest through journeys for first generation DMU sets

[Western 52]

Hull to Liverpool.

Class 124? Nice enough units, but I remember them as rather run down and scruffy towards the end. Mixed with class 123 eventually, also rather past their best by the early 80s!

 

[delt1c]

Didn't they also operate the 'Six Lochs Land Cruise' (in up to 9-car formation) which I think travelled via Dunblane-Crianlarich-Craigendoran and vice-versa, including the Killin branch? There are photographs and some description in Trains Annual 1963.

Agreed the , but these were specials not normal service.

Wasn't sure if they were ever regulars on the Far North tbh, I was just throwing random lines to the wall lol

The one I had in mind for the West Highland was the Mexican Bean 104 from the mid/late-80s, though IIRC that only ran during the summer between Crianlarich & Oban.

Fully remember the Mexican bean but was not a great distance for a 1st gen. Always wondered why the Swindon Intrercity units displaced from The Edinburgh Glasgow service couldnt have been deployed on the far North or WHL. After all a 5 car unit would have had 1200hp without the added weight of a locomotive

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Hull to Liverpool.

Scarborough-Llandudno was I believe a thing at one time, 170 miles, joining Manchester-Scarborough with Manchester-Llandudno.
All sorts of 1st gen DMUs.

 

[Taunton]

When the WR "Inter City" Class 124 units came along, they were assigned to the daily Cardiff-Plymouth through train as an 8-car formation. That's 168 miles each way I believe. Used to see it growling (and it did) slowly out of Taunton mid-morning westbound; we used to ponder how well it was going to do on Dainton bank. After a couple of years a Hymek and coaches were found instead, decidedly more sprightly.

Always wondered why the Swindon Intrercity units displaced from The Edinburgh Glasgow service couldnt have been deployed on the far North or WHL. After all a 5 car unit would have had 1200hp without the added weight of a locomotive

Indeed. The units were withdrawn when replaced by the Push-Pull in May 1971, whereas the similar Class 120 Swindon cross-country units that followed them off the production line lasted for another 10-12 years, almost double the life. The Scottish units were not scrapped immediately, they were still stored on sidings at Polmadie at the end of 1973, two and a half years later, covered in snow.

 

[75A]

Could I add Mk1 DEMU's to this?

I'll start it with a Saturdays only jaunt in the 1970's.

The unit(s) involved were the 'Hastings 6B / 6L's' (B's having a Buffet Car)
All year round it was a 6B, with a 6L added in the Summer, although there was no corridor between the two units.

ECS St Leonards West Marina Depot to Brighton platform 2 via Eastbourne (change ends),
Brighton platform 7 (change ends), Preston Park (change ends), Hove (change ends)

Then a service train to Exeter St Davids via Southampton.

Service train back from Exeter St Davids to Brighton.

Then ECS back to St Leonards, via Hove, Preston Park, Brighton & Eastbourne.

 

[Western 52]

Could I add Mk1 DEMU's to this?

I'll start it with a Saturdays only jaunt in the 1970's.

The unit(s) involved were the 'Hastings 6B / 6L's' (B's having a Buffet Car)
All year round it was a 6B, with a 6L added in the Summer, although there was no corridor between the two units.

ECS St Leonards West Marina Depot to Brighton platform 2 via Eastbourne (change ends),
Brighton platform 7 (change ends), Preston Park (change ends), Hove (change ends)

Then a service train to Exeter St Davids via Southampton.

Service train back from Exeter St Davids to Brighton.

Then ECS back to St Leonards, via Hove, Preston Park, Brighton & Eastbourne.

I remember seeing that one at Polegate about 1977. Imagine if it had gone to Plymouth over the south Devon banks....

I also remember a pair of these units on a railtour in South Wales. We visited Hirwaun and Maerdy with some impressive noise going uphill. I think the tour was called the Cymru DEMU. Quite a high mileage day on a DEMU.

 

[Mag_seven]

Which trains on the Glasgow-Carlisle route were DMUs?

In the 80s there was a Sunday Glasgow - Carlisle (G&SW) and return working using a DMU often in Strathclyde colours.

 

[Wilts Wanderer]

I saw a picture of a power-trailer 108 on the 0700 Swindon-Penzance vice 155 in about 1990, that must have been pretty unbearable and slow given the Bristol Bath Road allocated P-T sets weren’t known for their speed or timekeeping even on the Weston stoppers.

 

[Magdalia]

Mention of Weston-Super-Mare reminds me of what I think is one of the most noteworthy long distance DMU workings. On 1979 summer Saturdays there was a 0900 Birmingham to Weston-Super-Mare and 1158 return, booked for a pair of Tyseley low density 3 car DMUs. The return was booked non-stop Bristol Temple Meads-Birmingham New Street, possibly the longest non-stop run for a 1st generation DMU. It was allowed 2 hours for this, I don't know if that's enough to avoid the Lickey incline.

Tyseley had some bizarre hybrid low density sets in 1979 and on 18/08/79 the train was formed as follows:

51110/59193/51490, 50343/59128/50310.

That's 2 Gloucesters, 2 MetCams, a BRCW and a Cravens in a 6 car train.

 

[Western 52]

There were some long DMU railtours which whilst not that high on mileage were long days out of 10-12 hours. In South Wales there were many freight line tours using various DMU formations, some up to 9 cars. These were great tours, with passengers jumping off at various collieries etc with no platform. Imagine that these days!

 

[Taunton]

Towards their end a railtour with Hastings demus ran from Hastings, via Victoria, and to Carlisle via the S&C, and back via the WCML. I believe it took the best part of 24 hours, and must surely be the longest traditional diesel trip of all.

 

[D1537]

My guess, from the working timetable, is that this would be 1L82 06:50 Manchester-Yarmouth via Stockport and the Dore curve .... D385 SO UNTIL 1 OCT in the 16/5/88-14/5/89 timetable, and presumably no stock available at the start of the timetable hence DMU as you say.

No, 1L82 was hauled throughout the summer. The train I'm referring to had reporting number 1L68.

1L83 09:55 Manchester-Yarmouth D2 SO UNTIL 1 OCT via Stockport and Sheffield.

I think I can shed some light on this. If I remember correctly, 1L83 was indeed DMU, but was then changed to loco-hauled after a few weeks. However, at that point it was also started back at Liverpool (because that's where the stock was), as the 0908 Liverpool-Yarmouth, with the headcode changed to 1L68. I remember the first time it ran (with one of the Stanlow 47/0s) and took everyone by surprise, however it was pretty much a solid 47/4 (from Liverpool to Norwich) for the rest of the summer.

 

[Taunton]

Another one I can recall is a summer Saturday timetabled service from Glasgow Queen Street to, of all places, Whitley Bay. Apparently there was a holiday tradition, although pretty much disappeared by this time. That's the best part of 200 miles. It was run by a Gosforth Met-Cam unit with 3+2 seating, leaving Whitley Bay at breakfast time and returning from Glasgow early afternoon. Must have been about 1974 I saw it at Queen Street, handful of elderly couples boarding with suitcases. It was pathed between Glasgow and Edinburgh via Falkirk Grahamston to let the following express Push-Pull go past on the Falkirk High line. Is that our longest one so far for a low-density unit? I don't know if it would have fuel for 400 miles, or need to refuel in Glasgow.

 

[Killingworth]

Another one I can recall is a summer Saturday timetabled service from Glasgow Queen Street to, of all places, Whitley Bay. Apparently there was a holiday tradition, although pretty much disappeared by this time. That's the best part of 200 miles. It was run by a Gosforth Met-Cam unit with 3+2 seating, leaving Whitley Bay at breakfast time and returning from Glasgow early afternoon. Must have been about 1974 I saw it at Queen Street, handful of elderly couples boarding with suitcases. It was pathed between Glasgow and Edinburgh via Falkirk Grahamston to let the following express Push-Pull go past on the Falkirk High line. Is that our longest one so far for a low-density unit? I don't know if it would have fuel for 400 miles, or need to refuel in Glasgow.

My post 16 links to 1976 BBC video by Martin Young featuring that train, about 2 minutes in. Here it is again, how we were; https://www.bbc.co.uk/archive/a-fair-fortnight/zmg7cqt

 

[Strathclyder]

Fully remember the Mexican bean but was not a great distance for a 1st gen.

Definitely not when compared to some of the other examples cited here, but worthy of mention nonetheless I thought.

 

[D6130]

Always wondered why the Swindon Intrercity units displaced from The Edinburgh Glasgow service couldnt have been deployed on the far North or WHL. After all a 5 car unit would have had 1200hp without the added weight of a locomotive

When the Edinburgh-Glasgow class 126 units were superceded in 1971, after only 14 years' service, there was still a requirement for a considerable amount of parcels and newspaper van space - plus the Fort William sleepers and seating carriages - on the West Highland, Kyle and Far North lines....hence the necessity to continue using loco-hauled trains. Also these units were riddled with large quantities of blue asbestos insulation - quite a lot of which was exposed and dissipated in the Castlecary collision in 1968, when class 24 no. 5122 collided heavily with the failed class 126 unit which it had been sent from Eastfield depot to assist....sadly killing both the driver and secondman.

The Scottish units were not scrapped immediately, they were still stored on sidings at Polmadie at the end of 1973, two and a half years later, covered in snow.

The displaced class 126 units were stored at both Polmadie and Millerhill yards pending the establishment of a specialised asbestos removal facility at Glasgow (St Rollox) Works. IIRC, once this was operational, the units could only be dealt with one vehicle at a time....prior to being either scrapped or refurbished and sold to the LAMCo iron-ore mining company in Liberia, West Africa, for use as staff trains on their lengthy mineral line.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Ones I hated were Crewe to Cardiff in the 1970s and Norwich to Birmingham also in the 70s.

 

[Pigeon]

There was a time at the end of the 70s when the Sunday evening Hereford-Paddington had a nasty habit of turning up as a tremendously long formation of 3+2 suburban DMU vehicles. At least 6, maybe 9. Looked like the aim was to match the number of carriages in the usual formation, although most of them were usually empty so I'm not sure why. For some reason I can't help remembering being able to walk right through from one end to the other without meeting a blockage of cab ends half way, but I don't see how that could have been possible.

Mention of Weston-Super-Mare reminds me of what I think is one of the most noteworthy long distance DMU workings. On 1979 summer Saturdays there was a 0900 Birmingham to Weston-Super-Mare and 1158 return, booked for a pair of Tyseley low density 3 car DMUs. The return was booked non-stop Bristol Temple Meads-Birmingham New Street, possibly the longest non-stop run for a 1st generation DMU. It was allowed 2 hours for this, I don't know if that's enough to avoid the Lickey incline.

As in go via Kiddy? No, it wouldn't have been. It's not a quick way round, and Old Hill bank is itself a bit of a struggle - to be sure not as bad as the Lickey, and it was a lot less common for DMUs to just give up on it as they sometimes did on the Lickey, but on the other hand it would take longer to get assistance if they did.

 

[eastwestdivide]

I also remember a pair of these units on a railtour in South Wales. We visited Hirwaun and Maerdy with some impressive noise going uphill. I think the tour was called the Cymru DEMU. Quite a high mileage day on a DEMU

Towards their end a railtour with Hastings demus ran from Hastings, via Victoria, and to Carlisle via the S&C, and back via the WCML. I believe it took the best part of 24 hours, and must surely be the longest traditional diesel trip of all.

I was on both of those. The S&C one was called “The Long Thin Drag” and was formed of 2x6-car units plus two extra power cars. Refuelled at Leeds where we were all turfed off while it went to the depot. I’ve posted photos over on the rmweb forum somewhere.

 

[jfollows]

I think I can shed some light on this. If I remember correctly, 1L83 was indeed DMU, but was then changed to loco-hauled after a few weeks. However, at that point it was also started back at Liverpool (because that's where the stock was), as the 0908 Liverpool-Yarmouth, with the headcode changed to 1L68. I remember the first time it ran (with one of the Stanlow 47/0s) and took everyone by surprise, however it was pretty much a solid 47/4 (from Liverpool to Norwich) for the rest of the summer.

Thank you, that makes sense; there was no 1L68 in my working timetable (well, I looked for it and couldn't find it anyway) so it seems that it was an unused headcode which was therefore available to be used by the replacement service from Liverpool.

 

[Dai Corner]

I was on both of those. The S&C one was called “The Long Thin Drag” and was formed of 2x6-car units plus two extra power cars. Refuelled at Leeds where we were all turfed off while it went to the depot. I’ve posted photos over on the rmweb forum somewhere.

Was that the one where seats in the power cars were sold at a premium (for the thrash) or a discount (for lack of access to toilets)? I forget which.

 

[Magdalia]

I think I can shed some light on this. If I remember correctly, 1L83 was indeed DMU, but was then changed to loco-hauled after a few weeks. However, at that point it was also started back at Liverpool (because that's where the stock was), as the 0908 Liverpool-Yarmouth, with the headcode changed to 1L68. I remember the first time it ran (with one of the Stanlow 47/0s) and took everyone by surprise, however it was pretty much a solid 47/4 (from Liverpool to Norwich) for the rest of the summer.

Thanks for the headcode explanation. It is clearly a genuine change not some sort of error.

As in go via Kiddy? No, it wouldn't have been. It's not a quick way round, and Old Hill bank is itself a bit of a struggle - to be sure not as bad as the Lickey, and it was a lot less common for DMUs to just give up on it as they sometimes did on the Lickey, but on the other hand it would take longer to get assistance if they did.

DMUs worked both routes, but hitting the bottom of the Lickey at 70 mph would have been unusual!

 

[matchmaker]

Agreed the , but these were specials not normal service.


Fully remember the Mexican bean but was not a great distance for a 1st gen. Always wondered why the Swindon Intrercity units displaced from The Edinburgh Glasgow service couldnt have been deployed on the far North or WHL. After all a 5 car unit would have had 1200hp without the added weight of a locomotive

I suspect that after running such an intensive service since 1956, the units would have been fairly knackered!

 

[delt1c]

Seen 100’s ,107’s and 120’s on the service so wasn’t always same unit

 

[Pigeon]

DMUs worked both routes, but hitting the bottom of the Lickey at 70 mph would have been unusual!

Yes, they did, but not on non-stop runs to/from other places. Everything that came south through Kiddy went to Worcester/Malvern/Hereford, and similarly in the other direction. As well as those there was a more intense (well, for the time and place) service on the northern bit between Stourbridge and New Street, grinding up Old Hill bank and stopping at stations where the inclination of the platform was clearly indicated by the courses of brickwork and shuddering away again. No opportunities for any kind of fast running on that section, and it's more of a long way round than it looks; even services with only a couple of stops north of Droitwich took a lot longer to get to New Street than those that went via the Lickey.

Very nearly everything running between Bristol and Birmingham went straight up and down the main line. Very little even looped off between Stoke Works and Abbots Wood to call at Worcester (a long-standing complaint), and nothing ran through Worcester non-stop whichever way it was going.

It was always a bit of a disappointment on Worcester to Birmingham services via the Lickey that they never seemed very keen to try and charge it. Most of them didn't stop at Bromsgrove and with something over 2 miles from Stoke Works they had the distance to try and get up at least some speed, but they rarely put the effort in. Probably didn't think it was worth it for the really rather small difference it'd make. I agree it would have been interesting to experience one hitting it at 70mph but I rather suspect the main interest would have been the disappointment...

 

[Taunton]

Very nearly everything running between Bristol and Birmingham went straight up and down the main line. Very little even looped off between Stoke Works and Abbots Wood to call at Worcester (a long-standing complaint), and nothing ran through Worcester non-stop whichever way it was going.

Curiously there was a photo in Modern Railways in the 1960s of a Peak-hauled express coming nonstop through the centre roads at Shrub Hill (in the snow, I think), which long made me think, not being familiar with there, that this was the normal route for Birmingham-Bristol main line trains.

 

[Magdalia]

This got me thinking about other opportunities for a 1st generation DMU to charge a steep incline.

It reminded me of the 1004 Liverpool Street-Sheringham, about 145 miles. This ran 1967-74, formed of Cravens borrowed from the GN. Before Norwich it only called at Colchester and Ipswich, and must have got a good run at Brentwood Bank. At Ipswich it got a nice rest to allow the 1030 Liverpool Street-Norwich to overtake.

 

[Beebman]

This got me thinking about other opportunities for a 1st generation DMU to charge a steep incline.

On 18/01/86 there was a rather serious accident at Preston when a Class 104 2-car DMU passed three signals at danger and collided with locomotive 47111 which resulted in 44 injuries. The DMU was operating the return leg of a football charter from Carlisle to Accrington which had been routed via Shap. The cause of the accident was attributed to the fact that the charter organiser had been riding in the cab and distracting the driver who hadn't realised that the brake valve had been placed in the 'Lap' position which gradually destroyed the vacuum in the brake pipe. The report states about the organiser: "On this particular journey he made timings of the journey because, as a railway enthusiast, he considered the running of a DMU over Shap was unusual."

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Preston1986.pdf

 

[43096]

On 18/01/86 there was a rather serious accident at Preston when a Class 104 2-car DMU passed three signals at danger and collided with locomotive 47111 which resulted in 44 injuries. The DMU was operating the return leg of a football charter from Carlisle to Accrington which had been routed via Shap. The cause of the accident was attributed to the fact that the charter organiser had been riding in the cab and distracting the driver who hadn't realised that the brake valve had been placed in the 'Lap' position which gradually destroyed the vacuum in the brake pipe. The report states about the organiser: "On this particular journey he made timings of the journey because, as a railway enthusiast, he considered the running of a DMU over Shap was unusual."

https://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Preston1986.pdf

It made a mess of the 47, to the extent that it was written off, cannibalised for parts and scrapped: http://www.class47.co.uk/c47_zoom_v3.php?img=1544020148000

 

[D6130]

This got me thinking about other opportunities for a 1st generation DMU to charge a steep incline.

Climbing the 1 in 42 Cowlairs Incline from a standing start at Glasgow Queen Street.

Climbing the 1 in 45 (maximum) Miles Platting bank from a standing start at Manchester Victoria.

Climbing the 1 in 44 Nunthorpe bank from Marton (formerly Ormesby) on the Whitby line.

(Apologies for being slightly OT, as you can't actually get a run at any of these. In theory the Summer dated Glasgow-Oban DMU should have been able to get a run at the 1 in 58 gradient from Craigendoran Junction to Helensburgh Upper, but the 25 mph PSR at the bottom of the bank and the necessity to pick up the single line token manually prevented this).

Curiously there was a photo in Modern Railways in the 1960s of a Peak-hauled express coming nonstop through the centre roads at Shrub Hill (in the snow, I think), which long made me think, not being familiar with there, that this was the normal route for Birmingham-Bristol main line trains.

I suspect that may have been an engineering or bad weather diversion.