Looking for photos of 1980s sleeper trains, a bit of help needed.

[Cowley]

Hello history types.

It’s a bit of a modelling question really. I’m trying to put a diesel hauled N gauge sleeper train together in the era when blue and grey was just starting to give way to Intercity executive livery, so around 1987/88.

The up and down Penzance to Paddington sleepers as well as the 1S19 Plymouth to Glasgow/Edinburgh and reverse workings are the ones I have in mind, usually handled by class 50s or 47/4s in that era.

I’m having some difficulty in finding any photos of those trains despite doing quite a bit of searching tonight unfortunately. Would anyone be able to help out?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Gloster]

Have you tried the Cornwall Railway Society’s site?

You might also try Googling 1983 Paddington train crash and choose Images, although I would suggest that you don’t try to exactly replicate that.

 

[36270k]

The report on the 1983 Paddington accident on railwaysarchive.co.uk has a list of the vehicles and the formation.
You may find it useful.

 

[SteveM70]

Does this help you at all? Has some individual carriage numbers, but the dates are early rather than mid/late 80s

South West Sleepers 1981-85

British Rail coaching stock observations in the 1980s

www.britishrailways.net

 

[Magdalia]

I’m having some difficulty in finding any photos of those trains despite doing quite a bit of searching tonight unfortunately.

I'm not surprised, sleepers did run at night!

In the days before digital cameras night photography was challenging and obtaining good quality pictures required a lot of time, skill and dedication. Long time exposures, using a tripod, were essential to get decent depth of field and to avoid shutter speeds slow enough to make camera shake an issue. Length of exposure was largely guesswork and experience because of variations in the intensity of artificial lighting at stations.

 

[Cowley]

Yes it seems to be one of those subjects where you know you’ve see photos of them but when you try and find some they appear to be quite elusive!

 

[AY1975]

Does this help you at all? Has some individual carriage numbers, but the dates are early rather than mid/late 80s

South West Sleepers 1981-85

British Rail coaching stock observations in the 1980s

www.britishrailways.net

That's an interesting site, listing the Sleeper train formations on various selected dates at locations along all four routes that are (or were) served by Sleepers: the Great Western, East and West Coast Main Lines and the "Scottish internals". Sleeping car numbers are shown in blue and locos, seated and non-passenger carrying coaches in black, although at Reading on 12th August 1982 coach 80784 is shown in blue. I presume that's a mistake.

Yes it seems to be one of those subjects where you know you’ve see photos of them but when you try and find some they appear to be quite elusive!

If you're on Facebook, it'd be worth checking out the "British Railways Sleeper Trains - Past and Present" and "BR: Dusk to Dawn" groups. Both have some archive Sleeper train shots. Lately the Sleeper Trains group seems to have been dominated by photos of the present day GWR and Caledonian Sleepers but if you dig deep enough you will find some older photos from the BR era too.

 

[Cowley]

Thanks @AY1975 I’ll have a look.

 

[Gloster]

A bit of rooting around (combined with some long-overdue sorting) produced a few notes which only go up to about 1985. Formation was (in both directions, I think) 4 x TSO, BFK (not for passengers?), 3 x Sleepers, BG, Plymouth sleeper and Plymouth BG.

 

[Cowley]

A bit of rooting around (combined with some long-overdue sorting) produced a few notes which only go up to about 1985. Formation was (in both directions, I think) 4 x TSO, BFK (not for passengers?), 3 x Sleepers, BG, Plymouth sleeper and Plymouth BG.

That sounds about right to me. Compared to the 1S19 it wasn’t a particularly long train. Quite modellable in N gauge.

 

[hexagon789]

As I understand it, until 1985 the sleeper went only to Bristol.

In the summers of 1986 and 1987, the day coaches but not sleeping cars were extended to Penzance.

In 1988, the sleepers were taken through but to Plymouth Mon-Fri and only to Penzance on Saturdays.

The weekday working attached/detached the Poole sleeper at Birmingham.

There is a book by John Vaughan, called An Illustrated History of the Cornish Main Line. On page 118, there is a photograph of the 1700 Penzance to Glasgow/Edinburgh sleeper taken in September 1988:

47459 (Large Logo)
Mk1 RMB (IC)
Mk2D TSO (IC)
Mk2D TSO (IC)
Mk2A TSO (B/G)
Mk2D BFK (B/G)
Mk2D TSO (B/G)
Mk3 SLEP (B/G)
Mk3 SLEP (BG)
Mk3 SLEP (B/G)
Mk3 SLEP (IC)
Mk2A TSO (B/G)
Mk1 BG (B/G)

A very similar image has been uploaded to Flickr (date and loco match but the formation seems a wee bit different, and you can't see the back):

47459 on 1S19 1700 Penzance - Glasgow Central/Edinburgh sleeper.

Seen from Arch Lane overbridge at 321 miles 46 chains looking north-east towards St Erth.

flic.kr

 

[Cowley]

As I understand it, until 1985 the sleeper went only to Bristol.

In the summers of 1986 and 1987, the day coaches but not sleeping cars were extended to Penzance.

In 1988, the sleepers were taken through but to Plymouth Mon-Fri and only to Penzance on Saturdays.

The weekday working attached/detached the Poole sleeper at Birmingham.

There is a book by John Vaughan, called An Illustrated History of the Cornish Main Line. On page 118, there is a photograph of the 1700 Penzance to Glasgow/Edinburgh sleeper taken in September 1988:

47459 (Large Logo)
Mk1 RMB (IC)
Mk2D TSO (IC)
Mk2D TSO (IC)
Mk2A TSO (B/G)
Mk2D BFK (B/G)
Mk2D TSO (B/G)
Mk3 SLEP (B/G)
Mk3 SLEP (BG)
Mk3 SLEP (B/G)
Mk3 SLEP (IC)
Mk2A TSO (B/G)
Mk1 BG (B/G)

A very similar image has been uploaded to Flickr (date and loco match but the formation seems a wee bit different, and you can't see the back):

47459 on 1S19 1700 Penzance - Glasgow Central/Edinburgh sleeper.

Seen from Arch Lane overbridge at 321 miles 46 chains looking north-east towards St Erth.

flic.kr

There’s a few useful photos in that feed actually.

 

[hexagon789]

There’s a few useful photos in that feed actually.

Not unironically, I never checked the account - I found the image through a Google search actually.

 

[xotGD]

usually handled by class 50s or 47/4s in that era

Just to note that 1S19 often produced a 45/1. If you want a bit of traction variety. (Plus the 37s on the back!)

 

[Cowley]

Just to note that 1S19 often produced a 45/1. If you want a bit of traction variety. (Plus the 37s on the back!)

Yes definitely waiting for the Rapido 45/1 to appear.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Just to note that 1S19 often produced a 45/1. If you want a bit of traction variety. (Plus the 37s on the back!)

The southbound NE-SW Sleeper, which terminated at Temple Meads, was usually a 45/1 as well.

See below for 45 103 on said service at Bristol Parkway at 08.34 on 5th October 1985. The second picture shows the train approaching Temple Meads at 08.45; ignore 45 114 on the daytime train on the right... looking at 45 103 round the curve reveals the formation started with a BG behind the locomotive then three early build Mk2 carriages - the first of which appears to be a brake - then the Sleeper cars.

OK, you can't see the full rake - but you can certainly see enough to get a good idea...

 

[xotGD]

The other thing to note is that if 1S19 was diverted via Worcester it would then have a pilot engine attached there for the run up to New St. The pilot engine being the 37 that would otherwise be banking it up the Lickey.

 

[Rover]

That's an interesting site, listing the Sleeper train formations on various selected dates at locations along all four routes that are (or were) served by Sleepers: the Great Western, East and West Coast Main Lines and the "Scottish internals". Sleeping car numbers are shown in blue and locos, seated and non-passenger carrying coaches in black, although at Reading on 12th August 1982 coach 80784 is shown in blue. I presume that's a mistake.

That's my site, you're right AY1975 it was a mistake, but not any longer, thanks for pointing it out.

 

[Cheshire Scot]

The southbound NE-SW Sleeper, which terminated at Temple Meads, was usually a 45/1 as well.

See below for 45 103 on said service at Bristol Parkway at 08.34 on 5th October 1985. The second picture shows the train approaching Temple Meads at 08.45; ignore 45 114 on the daytime train on the right... looking at 45 103 round the curve reveals the formation started with a BG behind the locomotive then three early build Mk2 carriages - the first of which appears to be a brake - then the Sleeper cars.

OK, you can't see the full rake - but you can certainly see enough to get a good idea...

I assume you mean the Glasgow/Edinburgh to Bristol sleeper (prior to it being extended to Plymouth), the NE/SW sleeper was Newcastle to Bristol from which the sleeping cars had been withdrawn by the early 1970s - and arrived in Bristol much much earlier.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I assume you mean the Glasgow/Edinburgh to Bristol sleeper (prior to it being extended to Plymouth), the NE/SW sleeper was Newcastle to Bristol from which the sleeping cars had been withdrawn by the early 1970s - and arrived in Bristol much much earlier.

I only ever boarded it at Parkway for Temple Meads, so I'll have to defer to you on that detail...