Lost ticket, but with e-purchase receipt and collection receipt

[Elo]

Hi everyone, I would be very grateful if anyone can offer any advice.

This happened on 2/4/2024. The timeline is as follows:

I bought Off peak Day return tickets on the Trainline app at 9:44am. The route is: London Underground zone 1/2 - Bedford.

I collected my tickets at Liverpool Street station at 9:52am. And started my journey there.

I used my outbound ticket to take the underground from Liverpool street station to King’s Cross St Pancras. And entered the St Pancras train station.

I boarded the 10:15-10:55 train from St Pancras to Bedford.

When ticket inspection around 10:30am, I found my outbound ticket lost, as well as my AirPods in the same pocket. But I have all the proof to show that I had the ticket - purchase receipt on the app, return ticket and collection receipt I stored in my bag.

The ticket inspector said these cannot prove. He gave me the ‘unpaid fare notice’ as I didn’t have enough money to pay at that time. He also took a photo of the ticket collection code on my photo.

I attached all the support documents below.

Do I have enough grounds to appeal in this case?

Thank you!

 

[Fawkes Cat]

Hi everyone, I would be very grateful if anyone can offer any advice.

This happened on 2/4/2024. The timeline is as follows:

I bought Off peak Day return tickets on the Trainline app at 9:44am. The route is: London Underground zone 1/2 - Bedford.

I collected my tickets at Liverpool Street station at 9:52am. And started my journey there.

I used my outbound ticket to take the underground from Liverpool street station to King’s Cross St Pancras. And entered the St Pancras train station.

I boarded the 10:15-10:55 train from St Pancras to Bedford.

When ticket inspection around 10:30am, I found my outbound ticket lost, as well as my AirPods in the same pocket. But I have all the proof to show that I had the ticket - purchase receipt on the app, return ticket and collection receipt I stored in my bag.

The ticket inspector said these cannot prove. He gave me the ‘unpaid fare notice’ as I didn’t have enough money to pay at that time. He also took a photo of the ticket collection code on my photo.

I attached all the support documents below.

Do I have enough grounds to appeal in this case?

Thank you!

Welcome to the forum!

The news isn’t good: to travel on the railway you don’t just need to have bought a ticket but you must have it with you. And the law that enforces this (railway byelaw 18(1) and (2) - see https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/railway-byelaws/railway-byelaws#travel-and-fares-1) is ‘strict liability’ in that there’s nothing about whether you intended not to show your ticket.

So I don’t see any fundamental grounds for you to challenge the unpaid fares notice. And I would point out that if you don’t pay the notice, the railway could take you to court for breaking the byelaw. On the facts that you have told us, you would lose, and would have to pay a fine as well as the train fare.

I think your best bet is to pay the fare now and move on.

 

[Hadders]

Welcome to the forum!

This is an unfortunate incident but the outcome could've been worse - you could've been given a Penalty Fare or even reported for prosecution. I would pay the notice and chalk it up to experience.

 

[RPI]

As others have said, the UFN was issued correctly, just to add context to the reason why a receipt, reference or anything but the actual ticket isn't accepted, its because a ticket is a bit like a £20 note, it can be used by anyone, so if you don't have it, someone else could unfortunately.

 

[island]

You were dealt with leniently in the circumstances. EMR would have been within their rights to issue you a £133.30 Penalty Fare or report you for prosecution.

The Unpaid Fare Notice now needs to be paid in order to avoid escalating fees and charges or prosecution. Whilst you have a right of appeal, it is unlikely to be successful. Also note that for Unpaid Fare Notices, payment is needed within the indicated deadline independent of any appeal you may wish to lodge. It will be refunded if the appeal is resolved in your favour.

A ticket receipt cannot replace a ticket because the ticket could have been given to someone else to use.

 

[Sultan]

Whilst I would agree that this is a straightforward case and that your best action is to pay the £33.30, you could approach customer services afterwards saying you had lost the ticket after having put it through the barrier. Things in your favour would be the receipt with the time of purchase (9.44), collection at Liverpool Street (9.52), excess fare notice (10.30), possession of return ticket, and possibly the fact that you had to pass through a barriered gate to join the train at St Pancras.

Naturally they would have to be sympathetic to your plight but worth a shot perhaps. If you had given the outward ticket to someone else to use, then why would you still have the return portion?

Good luck

 

[WesternLancer]

Whilst I would agree that this is a straightforward case and that your best action is to pay the £33.30, you could approach customer services afterwards saying you had lost the ticket after having put it through the barrier. Things in your favour would be the receipt with the time of purchase (9.44), collection at Liverpool Street (9.52), excess fare notice (10.30), possession of return ticket, and possibly the fact that you had to pass through a barriered gate to join the train at St Pancras.

Naturally they would have to be sympathetic to your plight but worth a shot perhaps. If you had given the outward ticket to someone else to use, then why would you still have the return portion?

Good luck

No harm in that approach at all IMHO - in such cases where I am trying to prevail on their goodwill I tend to indicate that I would happily accept rail travel vouchers for future use as an acceptable form of refund. It occurs to me that they may see this is not giving away cash/money and might be happier to send such vouchers out.

In case the OP is not aware you can use such vouchers on any train companies services for any journey, but it is easiest to exchange them for a ticket at a staffed ticket office.